Thoughts on the Spartans

[Thalatta]

Yes, this is another yet another post about the Spartans. No, I’m not going to complain about broken Spartiates. A few things caught my attention when I started playing some weeks ago, and then I just went down a rabbit hole (things I usually do to myself). The purpose of me joining this forum was to write about this, but then other things got in the way. Also, recently “More Unique Civs: What can we do?“ was asked, I hope some of the following points give some ideas. I think it’s great to name things like “Limēn (Dock)”, but I’ll leave those details to Ancient Greek speakers. Then:

 

PART I:

 

Simple things that should be:

-Tyrtean Paeans should be Tyrtaean Paeans: that’s a typo, and maybe the icon should be different because people will think it’s about some sandal tech. Of course it would be nice somewhere to add a small explanation of things.

-Carrier Pigeons should be Phryctoria: Pigeons were used already by the 8th century BC (there’s a big issue regarding anachronical technologies in general). Systematic fire signaling would have been developed at the time of the game.

-The Loom should be Loom Industry: the Loom has existed for thousands of years, while from the Classical period onwards there’s production on a scale beyond personal needs.

-The Sacrificial Ritual icon should be changed: it’s the same as Kripteia, and shouldn’t seem to represent human sacrifice.

-Spartiates should be Hoplites Spartiates: there could be Spartiates that were too old to be hoplites anymore.

-Embolons should be Three-Finned Embolon: around the time of the start of the game, the triremes and two-pronged bronze rams appear, while the three-finned version appears around 400 BC, a bit more appropriate for such a late tech.

-Gerusia should be Skias: Gerusia was not a building, but a council. They might have met in a Bouleuterion, but anyway, the building has Brasidas, an ephor, and Kripteia, overseen by the ephors, and the ephors formed a council independent from the Gerusia. I think Skias is a better fit since Pausanias says “they have built what is called Scias (Canopy), where even at the present day they hold their meetings of the Assembly”, which was made up of all Spartiates to elect the gerontes and ephors, and ratify their proposals (of course, many things are still discussed by scholars, Sparta is not as well documented as Athens). Figure 6 in https://books.openedition.org/pcjb/7647 shows how it would have looked like (search “Skias et Oikodoméma”).

-Hellenistic Architecture civ. bonus should be Doric Order: it says “the Greeks used stone construction from early Mycenaean times”. This is confusion of the highest order. Those stones (Cyclopean masonry) have nothing to do with Hellenistic architecture, which corresponds to the Hellenistic period, starting with Alexander’s death. Maybe “Hellenic” was meant, referring to the preceding period, but their architecture had little to do with reusing those stones, just mainly for walls. And in any case, Sparta didn’t really reuse them, Athens and others did. To fix this: they had 3 orders of architecture, Doric (appearing before the game starts), Ionic (appearing a bit later) and Corinthian (appearing in the Classical period). Then, Athenians could have a Cyclopean Masonry civ. bonus for cheaper stone walls or something, and with Sparta they should start with a Doric Order civ. bonus (basically the only one Spartans used) for sturdy buildings (they were building temples with wood before that). And that’s it for the Spartans. Others could also have Ionic Order and Corinthian Order techs, but that’s another matter.

-The Spartan Olympic Hoplite should be Hippeus (Royal Guard): this has been proposed already, but I have something to add. Hippeis (I’d add “Royal Guard” as translation), a designation of hundreds, are being ignored in favor of what would have been a handful. Besides, I think this is based on imprecise translations, since I’ve found variations stating either Olympic, great or public games (https://lexundria.com/plut_lyc/22/prr), and the original (https://scaife.perseus.org/reader/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0007.tlg004.perseus-grc2:22.4) says “a crowned victor of a contest”, only later specifying the Olympics for a particular warrior.

-The Sanctuary of Artemis Orthia should be Athena Chalkioikos: I’m being nitpicky with this one since both were important, but it was Athena, not Artemis, the polyadic (protector) deity of Sparta, and it would be only in the 2nd century AD that her worship would be overshadowed by that of Artemis Orthia (check Guy Dickins’ The Hieron of Athena Chalkioikos). Artemis’ cult could give Spartiates stats enhancement bonus (it was related to the Agoge, and notorious for the diamastigosis, a ritual flagellation event). Athena’s cult was more civil in nature, and could give a metal bonus (apparently related to metal workers, chalkioikos means bronze house, I think the building had bronze outside).

 

Simple things that could be:

-Cartography could be Geography: cartography has existed for thousands of years, it was geographical knowledge that made maps more precise, and Erathostenes, at the time of the game, was the first to use that word.

-Naupegoi (Shipwrights) could be Neōsoikoi (Shipshed): shipwrights are not new to the time of the game. Spartan shipsheds were probably built at this time, and this would work well for Athens and others also.

-The Persian Stoa could be the Wonder: I’ve read there’s some unused model. Pausanias says “The most striking feature in the Agora is the portico which they call the Persian Stoa, because it was made from spoils taken in the Persian Wars”. Figure 18 in https://books.openedition.org/pcjb/7647 shows a diagram of it.

-Laws of Lycurgus could be Great Rhetra: Great Rhetra is the name of their constitution, the info tip could say it’s the Laws of Lycurgus, as he is already mentioned in other places, like the Catafalque Bonuses icon. It still refers to the thankfully renamed Champion Hoplites and Olympic Champions, thus all this has to be rephrased now.

-Unlock Neodamodeis could be Helot Emancipation: emancipation is how Xenophon constantly describes it. Brasidians was also proposed I think, but that refers only to the Helots that served under Brasidas.

-Lycurgan Military Reforms could appear only once: in Catafalque Bonuses it says 2 times Lycurgan Military Reforms, I’d write it just once, since both are infantry cost bonuses, and could be grouped under the same name. It still refers to Citizen Infantry Spearman and Champion Infantry Spearman.

-Lycurgan Military Reforms could be Melas Zomos: just a detail in line with names "teaching" something interesting, and Lycurgus already appears, as mentioned. The bonus lowers hoplite costs, and melas zomos, or black soup, was the staple of Spartan cuisine, simple and frugal, that other Greeks apparently mocked.

-Ritualistic Exercise (in place of Spartan Women) civ. bonus could be Bibasis: Bibasis was a difficult Spartan dance done by both men and women, and made Spartan women capable of notorious physical feats for which they were very proud of. I meant this for the Spartan Women, but it would work for Citizen-Soldiers also, as referred to now.

 

Changes that have been already proposed:

-Remove the Theater: something like that was built later in Roman times. Many state that the Skias was the oldest known odeion in ancient Greece (I guess the wooden theater some were mentioning), but this could be a misconception from some Medieval dictionary. A generic Odeion building could be also added, if they’ll eventually do something (cultural buildings and techs could influence expansion and capture times).

-Add Agiads and Eurypontids civ. bonus: although my naming, the ability to train two Heroes at once has been discussed a lot. One of them could be garrisoned for Hero bonuses to work to ensure one king stays in Sparta (it doesn’t matter if non-king Heroes are trained, one can imagine that one has to stay for other reasons). I’m not sure if there’s a problem with regicide mode, losing one of them should be losing, making training an extra one in regicide mode a more dangerous choice. One could get nitpicky about not having 2 kings of the same dynasty at the same time, but that’s too much, why not complain about Han vs Britons then, or training Heroes in the wrong chronological order.

-Add Oliganthropia civ. bonus: reduce maximum population (-10% has been proposed, maybe applied only to Spartiates).

-Revise building availability: I’ve seen discussions regarding the Stables, the Market, the Stone Tower, and the Arsenal, and I also think they should appear later, if even, and with less techs and units (I haven’t found anything regarding Spartans using the oxybeles). Weak trade and cavalry would be balanced in what follows.

 

Other changes that could be considered:

-Make the Skias train Ephors: ephors held the real power, they applied the law (applying fines) and oversaw training (checking fitness). Similarly to the Han Ministers, Ephor units could be trained, up to 5, to generate metal and affect stats of units produced from the building they would be garrisoned in. Ephors could balance weak or no trade considering payment in resources (I couldn’t find direct references on sources, but Spartans shunned gold and silver and paid in food and iron, maybe in other resources). Brasidas would be a Hero Ephor, increasing both counts, penalty balanced with the Agiads and Eurypontids civ. bonus. The same could be for Chilon of Sparta, one of the Seven Sages of Greece, although he lived a bit too early for the game.

-Add Skias techs, like Bribe Gerontes and Cleomenes III Reforms: a Bribe Gerontes tech, returning a direct reference to the Gerusia, could make Heroes a bit more powerful (Agesilaus II, a proposed hero, and other kings did it). A late Cleomenes III Reforms tech (introducing him in a way, as proposed) could kill one’s Ephors (a condition could be to have at least 4 of them) in exchange for some mostly military bonus. Bribe Gerontes sounds better as a building ability with a cooldown, if this sort of thing could be even considered.

-Make Skiritae faster and with larger FOV: they were used as hoplites, scouts, sentries, and later on, skirmishers. Some think they just used pelts as armor. Skiritae would then balance a weak cavalry, and everything falls naturally to the Barracks, quite Spartan, a concept someone also proposed.

-Change how units level up: it was confusing for me that units got automatically upgraded to yet another type of infantry, messing up with double-clicking, and having them not really go through all ranks (if I understood correctly how it works, maybe not). I’d only upgrade them when a 4th rank is reached. Also maybe an Hippagretai Chosen tech should be researched first, if upgrading to Hippeis, explaining that this will happen (the 3 Hippagretai chose the 300 Hippeis).

 

This is long enough for now. I have 8 points already done for Part II, but I’ll need some time to flesh out other things.

[Emacz]

1 hour ago, Thalatta said:

Yes, this is another yet another post about the Spartans. No, I’m not going to complain about broken Spartiates. A few things caught my attention when I started playing some weeks ago, and then I just went down a rabbit hole (things I usually do to myself). The purpose of me joining this forum was to write about this, but then other things got in the way. Also, recently “More Unique Civs: What can we do?“ was asked, I hope some of the following points give some ideas. I think it’s great to name things like “Limēn (Dock)”, but I’ll leave those details to Ancient Greek speakers. Then:

 

PART I:

 

Simple things that should be:

-Tyrtean Paeans should be Tyrtaean Paeans: that’s a typo, and maybe the icon should be different because people will think it’s about some sandal tech. Of course it would be nice somewhere to add a small explanation of things.

-Carrier Pigeons should be Phryctoria: Pigeons were used already by the 8th century BC (there’s a big issue regarding anachronical technologies in general). Systematic fire signaling would have been developed at the time of the game.

-The Loom should be Loom Industry: the Loom has existed for thousands of years, while from the Classical period onwards there’s production on a scale beyond personal needs.

-The Sacrificial Ritual icon should be changed: it’s the same as Kripteia, and shouldn’t seem to represent human sacrifice.

-Spartiates should be Hoplites Spartiates: there could be Spartiates that were too old to be hoplites anymore.

-Embolons should be Three-Finned Embolon: around the time of the start of the game, the triremes and two-pronged bronze rams appear, while the three-finned version appears around 400 BC, a bit more appropriate for such a late tech.

-Gerusia should be Skias: Gerusia was not a building, but a council. They might have met in a Bouleuterion, but anyway, the building has Brasidas, an ephor, and Kripteia, overseen by the ephors, and the ephors formed a council independent from the Gerusia. I think Skias is a better fit since Pausanias says “they have built what is called Scias (Canopy), where even at the present day they hold their meetings of the Assembly”, which was made up of all Spartiates to elect the gerontes and ephors, and ratify their proposals (of course, many things are still discussed by scholars, Sparta is not as well documented as Athens). Figure 6 in https://books.openedition.org/pcjb/7647 shows how it would have looked like (search “Skias et Oikodoméma”).

-Hellenistic Architecture civ. bonus should be Doric Order: it says “the Greeks used stone construction from early Mycenaean times”. This is confusion of the highest order. Those stones (Cyclopean masonry) have nothing to do with Hellenistic architecture, which corresponds to the Hellenistic period, starting with Alexander’s death. Maybe “Hellenic” was meant, referring to the preceding period, but their architecture had little to do with reusing those stones, just mainly for walls. And in any case, Sparta didn’t really reuse them, Athens and others did. To fix this: they had 3 orders of architecture, Doric (appearing before the game starts), Ionic (appearing a bit later) and Corinthian (appearing in the Classical period). Then, Athenians could have a Cyclopean Masonry civ. bonus for cheaper stone walls or something, and with Sparta they should start with a Doric Order civ. bonus (basically the only one Spartans used) for sturdy buildings (they were building temples with wood before that). And that’s it for the Spartans. Others could also have Ionic Order and Corinthian Order techs, but that’s another matter.

-The Spartan Olympic Hoplite should be Hippeus (Royal Guard): this has been proposed already, but I have something to add. Hippeis (I’d add “Royal Guard” as translation), a designation of hundreds, are being ignored in favor of what would have been a handful. Besides, I think this is based on imprecise translations, since I’ve found variations stating either Olympic, great or public games (https://lexundria.com/plut_lyc/22/prr), and the original (https://scaife.perseus.org/reader/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0007.tlg004.perseus-grc2:22.4) says “a crowned victor of a contest”, only later specifying the Olympics for a particular warrior.

-The Sanctuary of Artemis Orthia should be Athena Chalkioikos: I’m being nitpicky with this one since both were important, but it was Athena, not Artemis, the polyadic (protector) deity of Sparta, and it would be only in the 2nd century AD that her worship would be overshadowed by that of Artemis Orthia (check Guy Dickins’ The Hieron of Athena Chalkioikos). Artemis’ cult could give Spartiates stats enhancement bonus (it was related to the Agoge, and notorious for the diamastigosis, a ritual flagellation event). Athena’s cult was more civil in nature, and could give a metal bonus (apparently related to metal workers, chalkioikos means bronze house, I think the building had bronze outside).

 

Simple things that could be:

-Cartography could be Geography: cartography has existed for thousands of years, it was geographical knowledge that made maps more precise, and Erathostenes, at the time of the game, was the first to use that word.

-Naupegoi (Shipwrights) could be Neōsoikoi (Shipshed): shipwrights are not new to the time of the game. Spartan shipsheds were probably built at this time, and this would work well for Athens and others also.

-The Persian Stoa could be the Wonder: I’ve read there’s some unused model. Pausanias says “The most striking feature in the Agora is the portico which they call the Persian Stoa, because it was made from spoils taken in the Persian Wars”. Figure 18 in https://books.openedition.org/pcjb/7647 shows a diagram of it.

-Laws of Lycurgus could be Great Rhetra: Great Rhetra is the name of their constitution, the info tip could say it’s the Laws of Lycurgus, as he is already mentioned in other places, like the Catafalque Bonuses icon. It still refers to the thankfully renamed Champion Hoplites and Olympic Champions, thus all this has to be rephrased now.

-Unlock Neodamodeis could be Helot Emancipation: emancipation is how Xenophon constantly describes it. Brasidians was also proposed I think, but that refers only to the Helots that served under Brasidas.

-Lycurgan Military Reforms could appear only once: in Catafalque Bonuses it says 2 times Lycurgan Military Reforms, I’d write it just once, since both are infantry cost bonuses, and could be grouped under the same name. It still refers to Citizen Infantry Spearman and Champion Infantry Spearman.

-Lycurgan Military Reforms could be Melas Zomos: just a detail in line with names "teaching" something interesting, and Lycurgus already appears, as mentioned. The bonus lowers hoplite costs, and melas zomos, or black soup, was the staple of Spartan cuisine, simple and frugal, that other Greeks apparently mocked.

-Ritualistic Exercise (in place of Spartan Women) civ. bonus could be Bibasis: Bibasis was a difficult Spartan dance done by both men and women, and made Spartan women capable of notorious physical feats for which they were very proud of. I meant this for the Spartan Women, but it would work for Citizen-Soldiers also, as referred to now.

 

Changes that have been already proposed:

-Remove the Theater: something like that was built later in Roman times. Many state that the Skias was the oldest known odeion in ancient Greece (I guess the wooden theater some were mentioning), but this could be a misconception from some Medieval dictionary. A generic Odeion building could be also added, if they’ll eventually do something (cultural buildings and techs could influence expansion and capture times).

-Add Agiads and Eurypontids civ. bonus: although my naming, the ability to train two Heroes at once has been discussed a lot. One of them could be garrisoned for Hero bonuses to work to ensure one king stays in Sparta (it doesn’t matter if non-king Heroes are trained, one can imagine that one has to stay for other reasons). I’m not sure if there’s a problem with regicide mode, losing one of them should be losing, making training an extra one in regicide mode a more dangerous choice. One could get nitpicky about not having 2 kings of the same dynasty at the same time, but that’s too much, why not complain about Han vs Britons then, or training Heroes in the wrong chronological order.

-Add Oliganthropia civ. bonus: reduce maximum population (-10% has been proposed, maybe applied only to Spartiates).

-Revise building availability: I’ve seen discussions regarding the Stables, the Market, the Stone Tower, and the Arsenal, and I also think they should appear later, if even, and with less techs and units (I haven’t found anything regarding Spartans using the oxybeles). Weak trade and cavalry would be balanced in what follows.

 

Other changes that could be considered:

-Make the Skias train Ephors: ephors held the real power, they applied the law (applying fines) and oversaw training (checking fitness). Similarly to the Han Ministers, Ephor units could be trained, up to 5, to generate metal and affect stats of units produced from the building they would be garrisoned in. Ephors could balance weak or no trade considering payment in resources (I couldn’t find direct references on sources, but Spartans shunned gold and silver and paid in food and iron, maybe in other resources). Brasidas would be a Hero Ephor, increasing both counts, penalty balanced with the Agiads and Eurypontids civ. bonus. The same could be for Chilon of Sparta, one of the Seven Sages of Greece, although he lived a bit too early for the game.

-Add Skias techs, like Bribe Gerontes and Cleomenes III Reforms: a Bribe Gerontes tech, returning a direct reference to the Gerusia, could make Heroes a bit more powerful (Agesilaus II, a proposed hero, and other kings did it). A late Cleomenes III Reforms tech (introducing him in a way, as proposed) could kill one’s Ephors (a condition could be to have at least 4 of them) in exchange for some mostly military bonus. Bribe Gerontes sounds better as a building ability with a cooldown, if this sort of thing could be even considered.

-Make Skiritae faster and with larger FOV: they were used as hoplites, scouts, sentries, and later on, skirmishers. Some think they just used pelts as armor. Skiritae would then balance a weak cavalry, and everything falls naturally to the Barracks, quite Spartan, a concept someone also proposed.

-Change how units level up: it was confusing for me that units got automatically upgraded to yet another type of infantry, messing up with double-clicking, and having them not really go through all ranks (if I understood correctly how it works, maybe not). I’d only upgrade them when a 4th rank is reached. Also maybe an Hippagretai Chosen tech should be researched first, if upgrading to Hippeis, explaining that this will happen (the 3 Hippagretai chose the 300 Hippeis).

 

This is long enough for now. I have 8 points already done for Part II, but I’ll need some time to flesh out other things.

OP! we did some of this already in Classical Warfare, but welcome these ideas and changes.

We removed the baracks from sparta though... wheren the mess halls where spartiates congregated? ANd perioikoi werent citizens, so they come from camps just ont he outskirts of the territory.

[Thalatta]

3 minutes ago, Emacz said:

OP! we did some of this already in Classical Warfare, but welcome these ideas and changes.

We removed the baracks from sparta though... wheren the mess halls where spartiates congregated? ANd perioikoi werent citizens, so they come from camps just ont he outskirts of the territory.

 

Spartans would live and train at barracks from the ages of 7 (others say 14, maybe permanently from then on) to around 20. Then they would be admitted to the syssitia, to have mandatory meals in small mess halls. They are different things (always check the sources, for example Kulesza in Sparta: History, State and Society says that "Clauss (1983, 79), as well as Jones (1964, 153) believe that Agis planned to change the form of the syssitia, transforming them from intimate dinner clubs into large mess halls"). Regarding the Perioikoi, since they were mostly free in their communities, and Xenophon says "followed with him also many of the Perioeci as volunteers, men of the better class, and aliens who belonged to the so-called foster-children of Sparta, and sons of the Spartiatae by Helot women, exceedingly fine-looking men, not without experience of the good gifts of the state", they had time to train, I guess in their own barracks (still have to find a source on that). One can think the base game just conglomerates barracks (or wherever people trained) from all Sparta (or Lacedaemon, which is more encompassing). Outskirt camps are a bit weird, they had their own towns, and were considered part of the state, saying they were not citizens is a misleading simplification. Kulesza puts it nicely: "Formally speaking, the perioikoi constituted a part of the Spartan state (though the question remains whether they were still inhabitants of separate city-states; see Eremin 2002; Mertens 2002), which is reflected in its official name, the Lacedaemonians, which included both the fully enfranchised citizens (Spartiates) and the perioikoi. In my estimation, the perioikoi were both citizens of the Spartan polis and citizens of their own city-states, which justifies using the term “double citizenship” (Hall 2000). On the other hand, the perioikoi had no political rights, and thus were fully dependent on Sparta in the most fundamental issues, which is why they are sometimes described as “second-rate citizens” (Lotze 2000, 171–183, see Cartledge 2000, col. 582–583; Ducat 2018, 612)".

[Emacz]

Ok yeah i was under the impression that they were free, but not same full rights as citizens.... Finding easy to read academic sources is challenging.  Sent you another PM.  Would love to work with you more on this!

 

[Thalatta]

Now for things that I knew were off but had to source more carefully, or things that I found by chance while doing that. This time I quoted some sources, for those interested in reading (didn’t do it for info that got long ago).

 

PART II:

 

Simple things that should be:

-Syssition should be Pheideition: Syssition is much more commonly found, but it’s not the Spartan name, the “term Spartans used for the public mess was pheideition (IG 5.1.128.13; 150.1; 155.6) or pheidition (IG 5.1.1507.1, cf. van Wees 2018, 237). Athenian authors called it phidition, or sometimes syssition. Alkman also mentions the word andreion (Alkman 98 Page), while Xenophon uses syskenion (Xen. Lak. Pol. 5.2; for more on terminology, see Bielschowsky 1869, 9–13; Lavrencic 1992, 12–16; Rundin 1996, 207 n. 47). Plutarch explains that the common meals (syssitia) were called andreia by the Cretans and phiditia by the Lacedaemonians”, Spartan History, State and Society, by R. Kulesza.

 

Simple things that could be:

-Helot Economy could be Revolt Suppression: in general, better if techs relate to things during the game period, while civ. bonuses. to things that come from before. In this case I thought about the Great Helot Revolt of 464 BC.

-Handicraft and Advanced Handicraft could be Bell Krater and Megarian Bowl: these generic names could be substituted by actual pottery types, which appeared after 400 BC and 323 BC, respectively. This also brings the issue of what would happen with a very different civilisation: I think it would be nice for them to have slightly different bonuses, given that techs would be along the same lines, but different.

-Periplous (flanking manoeuvres) could be Aulētēs (Piper): periplous is just a manoeuvre (one of many), it’s like having a “galloping” tech in the Stable. Pipers weren’t really necessary before triremes. 

-Ship Cladding could be Lead Sheathing, and come after Undergirding Cables: undergirding cables are from at least the 5th century BC, and it would be hard to find anything related to hull integrity between the beginning of the game and that. I’m not sure what is exactly meant by ship cladding, I could only find lead sheathing in the 3rd century BC, although I’m not sure if for triremes, but maybe that detail doesn’t matter. A source I used is Ships and Seamanship in the Ancient World, by L. Casson.

-Iron Plow, Gather Training and Fertiliser could be Terraces, Green Manure and Water Wheel: these don’t seem relevant or interesting for the period. On the other hand, terraces seem to have appeared early in the Classical period, green manure by the end of the 4th century BC, and the water wheel around the 3rd century BC. I’d remove the last one for Sparta since I don’t think there's evidence for it, but maybe give them a Kleroi civ. bonus, explained later.

-Improved fletching, iron arrowheads and trilobate arrowheads could be bodkin arrowheads, trilobate arrowheads and pyramidal arrowheads: how and when was fletching improved, exactly? Iron arrowheads are from many centuries before the game. All give damage bonuses, and “with the exception of the three-edged rhomboid arrowheads, which appeared in Greece from the 6th century, were in wide use in the 5th century and declined during the 4th century BCE, the rest of the categories – bodkin, three-edged with barbs, and pyramidal – belong to types that appeared from the end of the 5th century BCE and were used widely through-out the 4th c. BCE”, Bow and Arrowheads from Ancient Macedonia, by I. Bellas.

-Fishing Nets could be Murex Fishing, to get extra metal, only for Sparta: nets have existed for thousands of years. I propose this tech for obtaining metal, alongside food, when fishing. Spartans should get their food mostly from farming, while for fishing, “despite this dearth of good harbours, there were still of course Perioikoi who engaged in fishing and trade. The economic significance of fishing in the Mediterranean world generally is often grossly inflated (...). There is, however, one marine resource, the murex mollusc (trunculus or brandaris), which merits special mention (...) ‘royal purple’, obtained by processing the milky secretions of the murex (...). Its production in antiquity was primarily associated with the Phoenicians of Tyre, but among the Greeks the Lakonians and Tarentines were leading producers”, Sparta and Lakonia, by P. Cartledge.

-Fishing Nets could be Rolled/Folded Sinkers, for other Greeks: I found the “appearance of these types of net weights in the second half of the 5th century BC”, and “leads made using a rolled sheet in a cylindrical shape are the oldest, while those made using a folded sheet did not appear until the end of the 4th century BC”, although for Athens and others, not Sparta. I think I read this on Ancient Nets and Fishing Gear, by T. Bekker-Nielsen and D.B. Casasola.

-Salt Curing could be Tarichos Trade, but not for Sparta: salt curing has existed for thousands of years, only around the 5th century BC salted fish, or tarichos, became a staple food, although for Athens and others, not Sparta.

-Gardens and Manors could be Sewerage and Peristyle Courtyards, but not for Sparta: those things appear in archeology at the time of the game for Athens and others, while Sparta had only simple drainage systems and houses. Those bonuses are for more population with time anyway, which doesn’t make a lot of sense with Sparta. They should go for quality, not quantity.

-Wooden Shields, Metal Rim and Improved Shield Alloys could be Molded Greave, Cord Handle and Shield Apron: the present techs don’t make much sense as developments for the time period. Regarding the greave, by “the later sixth century it had been shaped to fit the leg as closely as possible”, the shield’s handle went from a piece of leather to “a cord all round the shield” to have “plenty of spare cord if it should break”, and the leather apron “often attached in the period after the Persian Wars to the lower rim of the hoplite shield. This probably supplemented the greaves in their function, as a barrier against missiles”, Arms and Armor of the Greeks, by A.M. Snodgrass.

-Spolas and Linothorax could be Transitional Cuirass and Muscle Cuirass: Spolas and Linothorax should give price and mobility bonuses, not hack armor ones. The preceding bell cuirass had another successor, transitional cuirass, and later muscle cuirass, which seem to me better candidates for hack bonuses, along mobility ones, since it was the actual aim. In addition, new helmet types could give FOV bonuses. During the later 5th century BC they actually abandoned most armor, and adopted the exomis, a tunic.

-Xiphos, Iron Weapons and Carburisation could be Carburisation, Quenching and Tempering: all give damage bonuses. The Xiphos and iron weapons appeared too early. Even intentional carburisation seems to be early. The techs I propose refer to very early steel, and evolved mostly in parallel, but an exact timing is really hard to get, with early examples of everything appearing before the start of game, but a more consistent use after it. Still, while there’s very limited evidence (and considerable debate), I’ve found: “the carbon content (...) could be increased by carburization (...). Steel was not only harder than iron; its hardness could be further enhanced by quenching (...), and the resulting brittleness moderated by tempering .(...) welding hard steel sections into or onto relatively soft and bendable iron bodies, clearly demonstrating a high level of understanding of different material properties, and the ability to differentiate between iron and steel (...). Although Greek and Roman craftsmen were unable to melt and cast iron during this period, blacksmiths were able to weld together individual pieces of iron and/or steel”, Metallurgy, Greece and Rome, by T. Rehren. The much earlier Odyssey states that “a blacksmith plunges a screaming great axe blade or adze into cold water, treating it for temper, since this is the way steel is made strong”, but this is sometimes interpreted as simple cooling, which seems weird to me because of what’s actually said, but for now I have no better ideas.

 

Changes that have been already proposed:

-The role of trade could be reduced, for Sparta: mostly to enhance civilisation differentiation: “Lakonia, then, was remarkably self-sufficient in useful rocks and minerals as well as agricultural potential, and overseas trade in essentials was relatively unimportant”. “On the west coast of Messenia the best natural harbour was of course Navarino Bay (ancient Pylos), but the Spartans made little or no effort to develop its strategic or commercial potential”, Sparta and Lakonia, by P. Cartledge.

-Stable techs could be reconsidered, for Sparta: apparently the Spartans gave importance to horse racing, but didn’t have a big horse breeding program like other Greeks, who could also have a spiked rollers tech for more speed, given that “was beginning to be introduced to Greece (...) for the sides of the horse's mouth”, Arms and Armor of the Greeks, by A.M. Snodgrass. Also, the Xiphos “was eclipsed by the appearance of a more specialized cutting weapon”, the Kopis, which could be a hack bonus tech, being a curved sword recommended for cavalry (by Xenophon for example), but probably not for Sparta.

-Not allowing fields near the CC: this was discussed at some point for some civs, for realism, and would end making Sparta way more realistic. Actually, I was thinking that blocks of clustered buildings should not be bigger than a given area, since houses are otherwise abused as defensive structures, rendering palisades and walls useless.

-Siege tech and units should be reconsidered, for Sparta, and siege engines should be built (mostly) on the field: as proposed by many, I’d leave the (Siege) Workshop for Engineers, techs, and some simple siege units, but the Engineers should build the bigger engines on location, among other things (like bridges, trenches, traps, as already suggested, and depending on each civ.). They could also give build and repair bonuses. Engineer Heroes like Archimedes for Syracusians (if added) would be nice, able to build unique siege engines (the Claw at least). Spartan unit and tech availability should be revised down maybe, I’ll leave a longer discussion on siege engines en general for later (if ever).

 

Other changes that could be considered:

-Kleroi could be a civ. bonus: the kleroi were the Spartiate land allotments where helots lived and farmed. Also considering that their farmlands were among the most fertile, this bonus could give cheaper fields, to compensate for not having the latest agricultural tech.

-The role of fortifications could be reduced for Spartans, and some things changed, for Greeks in general: there’s a lot to disentangle here. A bit in general (mostly about Athenians, Boeotians, Messenians, and others, and then it should be decided what to remove for Sparta, all using Ancient Greek Fortifications, by N. Fields):

—Towers could have some changes: First, “the building decree of 307/306 BC not only covers repairs to the existing brickwork but also gives specifications for rebuilding the City Wall, including the roofing of the wall-walk or parodos (...) as the simplest means of protecting from the elements the small torsion-spring catapults, probably bolt-shooters, mounted on the curtains: the Athenians were certainly building torsion artillery by 306/305 BC” (later stating “not been invented before the turn of the 4th century BC”). Non-torsion catapults are also mentioned. Then, if one wants to be more historically accurate, “around 500 BC a major innovation, perhaps borrowed from Near-Eastern sources, appears with the addition of two-storeyed towers”, “rectangular in shape” and “with a covered chamber in the second storey and an open fighting platform protected by a parapet at roof level”, and had “the second chamber at parodos level with arrow slits. They were not, therefore, designed to house catapults, but as battle-stations for archers”. If one wanted to use catapults, "the lower chamber was not for catapults - these were housed in the fenestrated upper chamber - but for archers”, thus these catapult towers “dispensed with the fighting-platform roof and instead employed a gabled roof, which was easier to make watertight and thus keep machines dry”, and they had a larger minimum range. A “five-storey tower” is mentioned, but not much is said, while “towers of semicircular plan were stronger, but more difficult to construct. They also had the advantage of providing defenders with better fields of vision and fire”. It’s also said when a “solid base” is used. To implement things properly would require many types of towers, I think the simplest way is to make the Sentry Tower look like a small Stone Tower, and the Stone Tower would be a larger (semi)cylindrical version of that. I would remove Sentries, Crenellations, Arrow Shooters (all should be there already), and Murder Holes (mostly anachronistic, and that’s why multiple towers were built in range of each other), and the Arrow Slits and Catapult Windows techs could be added instead, or if possible in the future they could be mutually exclusive building upgrades (a concept discussed before, and would allow more types of building without overpopulating the construction panel), the latter one giving the look of the Sentry Tower. A Peripoloi (Patrols) tech could be added for either FOV or range, since they were garrisons for the border forts and watchtowers to patrol the mountainous borderlands, particularly during and after the 4th century BC. A change from Sturdy Foundations to Solid Base would seem unnecessary (unless quoting sources is wanted), although Iron Clamps could be considered (which is what the icon shows, and “these were set in lead and can be found all over the Near East, dating from the 5th century BC”, A History of Metallurgy, by R.F. Tylecote), but I’m not sure if they were used in these cases, just that they were used in other cases, so it would be weird as a tower tech.

—Palisades, Walls and Fortresses could have some changes: since “materials employed in Greek fortifications may be divided into two main groups: sun-dried mud-brick on a stone socle, and walls built entirely of stone. Completion in mud-brick unquestionably saved a great deal of time and money”, Palisades could be upgraded to mud-brick walls. Since “restoration work to include binding the decaying brickwork with 'wooden baulks'” is mentioned, a Wooden Baulks tech for resistance bonus could be added. Regarding stone walls, “battlements were probably in the form of a crenellated parapet that protected a parodos”, but this seems to have been the case for a long time, and that the parodos “required a more durable paving of slabs. The Athenian inscription of 307/306 BC ordains that the parodos and other portions subjected to wear be given a hard covering (possibly stone) imposed on a 'finger-thickness of sieved earth'”. Proteichisma was an outer stone wall and ditch, since “with the development of mechanical warfare by the Macedonians the function of combined ditch and breastwork is best seen as a more positive countermeasure, other than by sallying forth and physically destroying them”. Dipylon was a double gate that would act as a trap. Fortresses are kind of “imagine we cluster walls and towers here”, I find its techs (Will to Fight, Murder Holes and Professional Garrisons) uninteresting, maybe techs like Stone Parodos (number or rate of arrows bonus), Proteichisma (resistance bonus, or aura to slow down units or only siege engines) and Dipylon (number or rate of arrows bonus) for Fortresses and/or Stone Walls could be considered.

 

I think Spartans should have less techs, and be more self-sufficient (although most of my changes are just renamings), for realism and differentiation. Part III will take me quite a while because I have nothing prepared yet, although I came across some things already.