Economic technologies dilemma

[Deicide4u]

...doesn't exist.

It makes no sense to skip on any economic upgrade, as they are now. No choice this-or-that. It's just pointless not to get them, the question is only when. And, as a rule, we actually know when to get the most important upgrades.

- Woodcutting Level 1 - either before or after Barracks. No question here, this is a must.
- Farming Level 1 - After clicking to Town phase, or just before if you really need faster farming before Town phase.
- Woodcutting Level 2 - Immediately after getting to Town phase.
- Farming Level 2 - Immediately after getting to Town phase.
- Metal Mining Level 1 - As soon as you put your first metal miners to work.
- Stone Mining Level 1 - As soon as you put your first stone miners to work.
- Metal Mining Level 2 - Just after Stone Mining Level 1.
- Woodcutting Level 3 - Immediately after getting to the City phase.
- Farming Level 3 - Do I even need to say it?

Etc., etc...

In short, economic upgrades in this game are there just to be there. Everyone gets them, it makes no sense not to, or you will fall behind.

I believe that getting rid of the pair-techs was a wrong choice. And we absolutely don't need so many levels of economic upgrades in a game where booming is essentially the same thing as making military.

[Classic-Burger]

11 minutes ago, Deicide4u said:

.

I believe that getting rid of the pair-techs was a wrong choice. And we absolutely don't need so many levels of economic upgrades in a game where booming is essentially the same thing as making military.

The economic ones yes.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I agree that they are largely researched as soon as reasonably possible, with little variation, but the answer is not to force trade-offs by making them tech pairs. 
its better to diversify unit costs (we see more priority of the stone tech for slinger civs for example) and maybe reconsider the costs of the eco techs themselves.

we can also make techs non-ubiquitous across civs.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

4 hours ago, Deicide4u said:

game where booming is essentially the same thing as making military

Its not the techs themselves but this^ that is the core of the discussion. Recent gameplay innovations like mercenaries having a primarily metal cost in p2 has made the most extensive impact on skipping some techs, but of course most of the time the booming=turtling approach makes the most sense. I definitely don't think that adding tech pairs back into the game is a good idea except for some civ specific situations like the mauryans berry upgrade choice.

Edited 6 hours ago by BreakfastBurrito_007

[chrstgtr]

1 hour ago, Deicide4u said:

either before or after Barrack

Choice

1 hour ago, Deicide4u said:

After clicking to Town phase, or just before if you really need faster farming before Town phase

Choice

(I also research it at  either of these times, most of the time)

——-
Just because you always research a tech doesn’t mean that there isn’t a choice involved in when you research it. 

You have a very simplistic view of the game that doesn’t represent the myriad of other choices out there. You can rush, you can phase up fast, you can skip techs that you don’t need, you can skip eco techs in favor or military techs, you can skip techs in favor or getting more pop, you can skip techs in favor of more buildings

If things were as simple as you say everyone would have more or less the same economy, which isn’t obviously true. 

[chrstgtr]

1 hour ago, Deicide4u said:

I believe that getting rid of the pair-techs was a wrong choice.

I hate these. They make the game rigid so that you only have one way to play and can’t adjust to meet current game situations. 

[Deicide4u]

5 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

Just because you always research a tech doesn’t mean that there isn’t a choice involved in when you research it. 

RPG games have been heavily dumbed-down ever since Oblivion.

In Morrowind, if you played fairly, you had a choice of mostly +2, +3 and +4 (if you were very lucky) attribute points per level up.

But, players figured out that, by leveling up your Misc skills that don't contribute to leveling but still count towards attribute bonuses, you can always get +5 bonuses at each level up.

So, there was a profound choice: you either role-play and have fun with the game, or you play a boring game with numbers.

In Oblivion, you could do the same, but the enemies would get stronger each level up. This prompted players to go a step further, to limit the amount of level ups they do.

What does this have to do with our RTS game? Well, if every eco tech is crucial, and every civilization can get every economic tech, what choice do players have? The most logical choice is to get all techs, ASAP. We can't really role-play in this game. 

Therefore, pair-techs are one way to make the player take a risk and have consequences for his/her actions. To force players to have a "strategy", if you will. 

[Deicide4u]

6 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

You can rush, you can phase up fast, you can skip techs that you don’t need, you can skip eco techs in favor or military techs

We are strictly talking about eco techs here. You can skip any tech to get more military, but is that really the best choice in mid to long term?

Rushing is also an all-in strategy that basically skips techs.

Phasing up fast, yes. Followed by immediately getting those eco techs that you ignored up til now. If you don't get them, you are way behind, no matter that you're in Town phase 1 minute before the enemy.