ARCHÉ

[SMST]

Hello to you all! I have taken up the work on PG:E again and are now back.

I am right now working on the detailled research of each faction, starting with the French and the British factions. (I work on this pair at one time, as they were closely related to each other and I want them to be in some ways each other's antagonists. I am doing that with several other nations as well) Specifically their representation in the Ancient Era is what I am working on right now.

0ad has British and Gallic Celts both into one faction. This is fine, but here, I need to differentiate these two cultures as they belong to different factions.

Since the French faction will be more of a defensive faction throughout the game, they get the heavier armoured units and better defensive structures. Only there will you find the 0ad Celts clad in mail. Generally speaking, they are the more "civilized" Celts. (as the Gauls probably were, historically)

The British, on the contrary, have better offensive capabilities and rely more on light to not armoured infantry and light ambush cavalry. Their attribute will be the famous war paintings on body and face, which no French unit will have. They also get a slight speed bonus for their infantry.

I've done some artistic work to visualize you my ideas. These units are by no means final, but they will give you a general idea of my plans for Ancient French and Britons. They are using 0ad textures of the alpha release, though I'd prefer them to have custom textures in the finished mod.

IMAGE

That depends on how complicated you want to make it. The more techs that have to be researched for something to happen, the more your mod leads towards a simulation game (i.e. sim city) and away from an rts game. Some prefer quick and dirty RTS's -- not much of an econ, with it easy to rush - for example, red alert, red alert 2. Others prefer more of a simulation. For example, Empire Earth and Civilization. The more technical something is the more it annoys certain people, while others are happier.

Well, for that matter, this mod will be more like a simulation. In fact, technology is a key feature to the game. First, it is the prerequisite to age up, as mentioned before. (four innovations + four random technologies = age up button gets active at civ centre) Second, said innovations are vital to unlock several game features. For example, there is a innovation called Agriculture that unlocks farms in age 2 or another called Mechanized Warfare, which gives you WWI units and first tanks in the Imperial age. Third, technologic status strongly influences the opinion that AI players have of you, so a highly developed empire will have better chances to get an alliance than a primitive barbarian tribe.

[SMST]

No answers in ten days? Shame.

Anyway, I have now a quite finalized version of the attributes and characteristics of the first ten factions for the first release and want to share it with you, to get your opinions, and maybe some constructive critics.

The factions of the first release are taken from the Mediterranean and its surroundings, Europe and the Middle East. This is exactly the same area of the world 0 A.D. is set in, so there won't be trouble with biome changes.

Note that with these faction I went for regional criteria rather than for ethinc. I am well aware, for instance, that ancient Gauls don't have anything to do with modern French or that the ancient Hittites are not related to modern-day Turks. Also, the boni for almost all civilisations are taken from the period where they were at their strongest. Both are for the sake of simplicity and gameplay purpose. (I suppose you don't want changing civilisation attributes either, something I played around for some time, but which I eventually abandoned)

France

France is a rather defensive and cultural-minded civilisation which can also develop a good offensive power if played correctly. They have a better cavalry than the average European nation and posess the strongest defensive structures of the game.

Representation:

Ancient Era: Gallic Celts

Medieval Era: Franks/Feudal France

pre-Modern Era: Absolutistic/Napoleonic France

Modern Era: Modern France

Bonusses:

Leadership: This provides French "General" units (military support units that give a movement and attack speed bonus to your troops, similar to heroes in 0 A.D.) with a greater "aura", meaning their bonus affacts more of the surrounding units. Generals are also cheaper to acquire for a French player.

Advancement: This provides French players with cheaper technologies, representing the fact that France was for a long time the leading cultural power of Western Europe.

Britain

Britain posesses the strongest late-game navy in the game and is thus best suited for naval maps. It also posesses a strong light infantry arm and, later in the game, a strong airforce.

Representation:

Ancient Era: Brythonic Celts (maybe with some Pictish influence in later ages)

Medieval Era: Anglo-Saxon/Norman feudal England

pre-Modern Era: Colonial/Imperial Britain

Modern Era: Modern Britain

Bonusses:

Rule the Waves: British naval transports carry twice as much units, to emphasize their focus on colonial attempts. Together with the strong military navy, this bonus should give Britain a great edge on water maps.

Colonialism: British players can acquire territorries on provincial maps just by building two military buildings on that territory (rather than have to build a town centre on a specified settlement). This is meant to be representative of the British colonial empire.

Germany

Germany has good infantry from the very start of the game, which enables it to do some nasty rush attacks. However, Germany is strongest in the late ages of the game, where it gets strong industrial units such as tanks and aircraft.

Representation:

Ancient Era: Germanic Tribes

Medieval Era: Holy Roman Empire until the rise of Habsburg.

pre-Modern Era: Kingdom of Prussia

Modern Era: Unified German State

Bonusses:

Industry: Germany was a industrial powerhouse after its unification. To represent this, German citizens gather metal and oil at a faster rate.

Federalism: As opposed to the centralism of many past and modern states, Germany is even today a federal state, the origins of this system dating back to the Holy Roman empire where it was a loose confederation of single states. German civic centres' economics will grow at full rate even if not connected with the capital civic centre. (a recent idea was the economical development of cities and territorries)

Russia

Russia has the fastest light cavalry in the game, which enables them to raid frequently and effective. It relies on numbers of its soilders rather than on quality, backed up with some or the greatest industrial units in the late game.

Representation:

Ancient Era: Skythians and Sarmatian tribes

Medieval Era: Rus/Early Moscowite

pre-Modern Era: Tzaristic Russia

Modern Era: Soviet/Modern Russia

Bonusses:

Russian Winter: The vast landscapes and harsh climate of the Russian lands have spelled doom for many invaders throughout the whole history of thet country. In the game, this will represented by enemy units suffering movement and attack rate penalties as well as reduced resistance to damage and a lower stamina regeneration rate when invading Russian territorry.

Grand Population: Reflecting the numerous Russian population and the huge armies made of it throughout the history, a Russian player will be ablew to exceed the game's max population cap by 25%.

Italy

Italy (or Rome) is a early game civ, having excellent infantry with both strong offensive and defensive stats. It also has good siege and naval capabilities. From the ancient era onwards, the mighty legions are a serious threat to any player.

Representation:

Ancient Era: Roman Republic/Empire

Medieval Era: Italian City States

pre-Modern Era: Italian States

Modern Era: Modern Italy

Bonusses:

Legions: Italian melee infantry gets increased formation bonusses if put in formation.

Imperialism: The Romans, and later, less known, the Venetians, built great Mediterranean empires. Italian players are able to capture enemy units and buildings faster than any other civ.

Balkan

The Balkan faction are good defenders, having the strongest hevay infantry of the game and also strong structures and naval units. They are strong in technological aspects and can reach the higher ages faster than the average civilisation.

Representation:

Ancient Era: Greek Poleis/Hellenistic states

Medieval Era: Byzantine Empire

pre-Modern Era: Serbian kingdom

Modern Era: Modern Greece or Serbia

Bonusses:

Phalanx: Balkan heavy infantry gains a bonus against other infantry, providing them with fair offensive capabilities. Offensive infantry line is non-accessable or a Balkan player.

Philosophy: Ancient Greece is the place where Western science and philosophy originated. Greek produce more knowledge per scholar garrisoned. (knowledge being the ressource to research all technologies)

Persia

Persia has the strongest cavalry in the game as well as good archers. That means they should be mainly used in the earlier ages of the game, where cavaly has the most significance.

Representation:

Ancient Era: Achaemenid Persians

Medieval Era: Sassanid Persians

pre-Modern Era: Choreswm/Safawid/Afghan Persia

Modern Era: Modern Iran

Bonusses:

Wealth: Persian players start off with a bonus amount of every ressource. Special technologies increase wealth acquiring as well.

Horse Breeding: Unlike other civilisations, Persians can capture wild horses and bring them to corrals just like in 0 A.D. Garrisoned horses decrease costs and increase production speed of non-mechanical cavalry units.

Egypt

Egypt is rather defensive, relying on good counter units for enemy offensive units. They are good in a "wall in+build wonder" type of game, since they have good defenses and are bonussed in terms of wonder building.

Representation:

Ancient Era: Pharaonic Egypt

Medieval Era: Arabic Egypt

pre-Modern Era: Arabic Egypt (Mamlukes)

Modern Era: Modern Egypt

Bonusses:

Nile Flood: The fertile soil along the River Nile was utilized by the Egyptians, making them one of the first agraric civilisations and the grain suppliers for the ancient world. Egyptian farms yield more food, and citizens can collect food faster from farms.

Monuments: The ancient Egyptians build arguably some of the greatest monuments ever, most notably the Pyramids and the Sphnix. The later Arabic culture built great mosques and other buildings in Egypt, too. To reflect this great tradition, Egyptian players have access to wonders earlier in the game. They can also build wonders cheaper.

Phoenicia/Spain

They are the greatest seamen and traders in the earlier ages, however, their glory wanes in the later ages when Britain comes into play. Thus, they are strongest around mid-game.

Representation:

Ancient Era: Phoenicians/Carthagenians

Medieval Era: Christian Spain

pre-Modern Era: Reconquered Spain

Modern Era: Modern Spain

Bonusses:

Exploration: Both Phoenicians and Spaniards were great explorers of their time. Phoenicians were the first to surround Africa, while Spain discovered and colonized the New World. In the game, all Spainsh/Phoenician human land and naval units gain a increased LOS.

Trade Masters: Spanish/Phoenician players gain a increased income from all trading routes.

Turkey

Turkey is something of an all-around faction, with focus on siege and cavalry. They are best used around midgame, where their units are at their strongest.

Representation:

Ancient Era: Hittite Empire

Medieval Era: Seljuk Turks

pre-Modern Era: Ottoman Turks

Modern Era: Modern Turkey

Bonusses:

Siege Masters: The Ottoman Turks were very good at besieging cities. Thus, gunpowder siege units gain additional damage bonus against all structures.

Multiculturalism: Asia Minor was always made up of many different cultures. At its peak, the Ottoman Empire consisted of many nationalities and made use of that. This is reflected in the mod by having research and training speed at its maximum already in newly conquered provinces. (for you make better use of the local population's skills)

Edited September 30, 2010 by SMST

[SMST]

I have quite recently done some rework for the ages of the game. Currently, there are 20 ages in total, and looking at it now, as I am into detailled research for the factions, it seems a bit too much. One problem is, of course, the sheer amount of work that would be needed, but the other thing is more gameplay-wise: Many ages are much the same as the pervious ages (as it is now, Bronze Age - Iron Age, Dark Age - Medieval Age, Enlightenment Age - Revolutionary Age etc.) and there shouldbe something new in each age, in my opinion ... So for the sake of feasability and gameplay, I cut the ages down to 12:

Stone Age

(actually Neolithic Age, as oshron mentioned somewhere before in this thread, is the better starting age for a game that focusses on civilisationary structures and not on nomadic tribes)

No Metal ressource yet. Primitive Infantry only, no cavalry. Basic fortifications (think of pallisades in AoK)

Bronze Age

Metal ressource activated. First light cavalry unit line. Stronger fortifications. From this age onwards, additional civic centres can be built.

Iron Age

Heavy cavalry and advanced siege engines activated. Also more naval units. Fortresses and Universities are now aviable.

Classical Age

Peak of ancient civilisation. Wonders and unique units can now be built.

Medieval Age

(to be honest, if I designed history, I would have skipped the Medieval Age, for there is nothing really innovational to gameplay which would make this age unique. However, I also can't just skip it.)

Renaissance Age

First appearance of gunpowder units. Artillery changes siege warfare. (14th-15th century)

Colonial Age

Mixed Pike-Musket-Infantry. (think 16th-17th century) Expanded naval options. (ships lose the ability to ram each other, but are now standardized equipped with artillery, whereas before, units needed to be garrisoned)

Enlightenment Age

Full gunpowder infantry line. (18th - early 19th century) Nationalism rises your territorial bonusses.

Industrial Age

Oil (Energy) ressource is now aviable. Armoured units (primitive tanks, battleships) change warfare drastically. (no boarding of ships anymore, for example) First primitive aircraft.

Atomic Age

(lacking a better name, this is WWII. Another idea was "Modern Age", but this is even more stupid)

Rapid evolvement of aircraft and tanks. First nuclear units (nuclear bombers)

Information Age

(second half of 20th century)

Nuclear units become more advanced, nuclear missile bases and nuclear subs are now aviable. Further advancement of land, air and sea units.

Global Age

(21th century, up to 2050)

The ultimate age and the ultimate army. Just upgrades of earlier units, yet significant ones. Fancy stuff like laser troopers, anti-gravity tanks or fighting cyborgs will NOT be included. (might be an expansion, though, who knows)

---

What do you think? Oh, and I would very much like some comments about the factions as well.

[buggy123]

so let's say games will last around 40min -1hour (age of empire games at least) than that means even if you research at a rate of 5min/age you would barely reach the last stage.

This means that civs with advantage in the later ages will be greatly at disadvantage for the majority of the game...=/

[Mythos_Ruler]

Stone Age

No Metal resource required yet. Primitive Infantry only, no cavalry. Units cost Food and Stone. Basic fortifications (think of palisades in AoK). Mud and wattle huts--buildings only cost Wood. No farming, only hunting, fishing, and gathering.

Bronze Age

Metal resource activated. Some buildings start costing Stone. First farming. First light cavalry unit line. Stronger stone fortifications (think: Mycenaeans, Babylonians, etc.). From this age onwards, additional civic centres can be built. The first light attack ship. Land and Sea trade introduced.

Iron Age

Siege towers and basic siege techniques developed. Fortresses and more sophisticated defensive structures are now available. Chariots introduced. More naval units. Land and Sea trade bonused. Tribute enabled.

Classical Age

Peak of ancient civilisation. University introduced. Wonders and unique units can now be built. Players can choose their political and religious systems, with unique bonuses.

Medieval Age

The Trebuchet is introduced as well as the portcullis, sally port, and castle keeps. The longbow and crossbow can be researched depending upon civilisation. The chariot line evolves into a new cataphract line of cavalry.

Renaissance Age

First appearance of gunpowder units. Artillery changes siege warfare, eventually rendering large stone fortifications obsolete. (14th-15th century). The peak of the cataphract line of cavalry.

Colonial Age

Mixed Pike-Musket-Infantry. (think 16th-17th century) Expanded naval options. (ships lose the ability to ram each other, but are now standardized equipped with artillery, whereas before, units needed to be garrisoned). Warships are now large ships-of-the-line. Trade ships can be upgraded to "Galleons" that can defend themselves. Artillery (cannons) now replace old-style siege weapons. Fortifications revert back to wood and earth.

Enlightenment Age

Full gunpowder infantry line. (18th - 19th centuries) Nationalism rises your territorial bonuses, but it is not more difficult to control new territories. Balloons introduced for reconnaissance. Ironclad warships introduced. Field artillery receives a new "grapeshot" anti-infantry feature.

Industrial Age

Oil (Energy) resource is now available. Armoured units (primitive tanks, dreadnaught battleships) change warfare drastically. (no boarding of ships anymore, for example) First primitive aircraft. Full-automatic weaponry ("machine guns") introduced. Chemical warfare now possible.

Atomic Age

Rapid evolution of aircraft and tanks. All cavalry lines now replaced by mechanized equivalents. First nuclear units (slow and vulnerable nuclear bombers). Most fortifications replaced by pill boxes, fox holes, metal fencing, and outposts. Paratroopers. Aircraft Carriers introduced. Spy planes introduced.

Information Age

Nuclear units become more advanced, nuclear missile bases and nuclear subs are now available. Further advancement of land, air and sea units. Game now becomes less about holding territory and more about researching technology and "force projection" far away from your territory. Tanks, Aircraft carriers, and aircraft reach their zenith. Spy unit introduced, which has multiple functions, such as: assassination, sabotage, stealing technology, and biological warfare. Spy can also bribe groups of enemy units into turning into "freedom fighters," uncontrollable by either player, but hostile to the enemy player.

Global Age

(21th century economics and warfare)

All aircraft replaced by drones, which cost a lot of resources, but do not add to the population cap. Satellite recon available. Nuclear bombers replaced by space-based tactical nukes. Infantry are now "enhanced," depending upon the player's line of research, either technologically or biologically. New territories that come under the player's control are in a constant state of rebellion.

[Cassador_Chris]

Hey now. You guys are missing the all-important Chalcolithic, or Copper Stone Age. Shame on you.

[Mythos_Ruler]

lol... true, but it didn't last as long as the others.

[SMST]

Thanks for the answers.

So, by now, the mod needs a distinguishable name, rather than Pyrogenesis: Empire, which already caused confusion. I would like to hear your ideas for a name fitting for a game which encompasses the whole of Western history.

Personally, I came up with some Greek names like "Panarchos" ("overlord") or "Arché" (means both "beginning" and "rule"), but they are not really satisfying. I suck at finding titles, so I would like you to make a guess.

----------

so let's say games will last around 40min -1hour (age of empire games at least) than that means even if you research at a rate of 5min/age you would barely reach the last stage.

This means that civs with advantage in the later ages will be greatly at disadvantage for the majority of the game...=/

Well, I won't call it disadvantage. Every civ is fairly strong in their respective areas throughout all ages. (French always have strong defenses and heavy cav. Germans always have strong infantry. Russians always have strong light and ranged cavalry. Britons always have good archers and a relatively good navy, which gets better from Colonial Age onwards. No need to talk about the other factions) They may be at a disadvantage if attacked by typical early game civs, such as Persia or Rome, but it means by no ways they could not defeat them, even not that it would be too hard to do so.

Still, you've hit a point. I imagine a typical game would last longer than a AoE game. (which can be pretty quick, if I compare them to games like Empire Earth) This works fine at least for singleplayer, where you can save and play again later. For multiplayer, there would have to be a kind of "Age Race" game type, where the complexity and duration of aging up is reduced. (perhaps disabling the need for researching innovations to age up) Either that, or players are able to pick starting and ending ages, just as in AoE.

Of course, this game is deliberately designed to be rather slow in comparison to AoE and perhaps 0 A.D.

Stone Age

No Metal resource required yet. Primitive Infantry only, no cavalry. Units cost Food and Stone. Basic fortifications (think of palisades in AoK). Mud and wattle huts--buildings only cost Wood. No farming, only hunting, fishing, and gathering.

Since the Stone Age here is actually the Neolithic age, I had farming and trade in there. It would still need to be developed, I believe, but the technology for both would be readily aviable from the beginning.

Basic units for the Stone Age that I thought about:

- Spearman

- Slinger

- Bowman

All primitive and rather generic. (as is all of this age, since visual cultural differences will only play out from the Bronze Age onwards) All of these unit classes are not the greatest of offensive units, though, so I believe rush players will be going to hate me ...

Bronze Age

Metal resource activated. Some buildings start costing Stone. First farming. First light cavalry unit line. Stronger stone fortifications (think: Mycenaeans, Babylonians, etc.). From this age onwards, additional civic centres can be built. The first light attack ship. Land and Sea trade introduced.

I actually threw Stone out of the ressource line (along with Uranium), but if people don't think that 7 or 8 ressources wouldn't cause too much complexity, I'll add it in again. Otherwise, your ideas regarding buildings concur with mine.

Cavalry is going to be introduced along with swords/ace/maceman units. (I call them "Shock Infantry") Both will have better offensive capabilities than any Stone Age unit. I imagine the Bronze Age to be the age where first clashes between players are going to happen.

Iron Age

Siege towers and basic siege techniques developed. Fortresses and more sophisticated defensive structures are now available. Chariots introduced. More naval units. Land and Sea trade bonused. Tribute enabled.

Some civilisations will get chariots (Egyptians, Hittites (Turkey), Britons and perhaps the Gauls (French), too), but others are using heavy cavalry by now. (Persia and Russia) Carthage (Phoenicia) gets its elephants and Germany, Rome and Greece just have to wait for heavy cav until the Classical Age - though they get additional infantry upgrades as compensation.

Your concept of tribute? I actually have a taxation system which adds a amount of the gold/wealth/coin ressource to your stockpile for every active civic centre. It might be introduced around this time.

Classical Age

Peak of ancient civilisation. University introduced. Wonders and unique units can now be built. Players can choose their political and religious systems, with unique bonuses.

The University. It would make more sense to have it here, after all. But the name of the Classical Age, after all, is just a name, since the only "classical" civ, the Greeks, have their historical classical age (Persian Wars to Peloponesian Wars) in the Iron Age. So it would perhaps be more fitting there.

Religious and political systems are another thing that I had planned, but threw out for simplicity's sake.

Medieval Age

The Trebuchet is introduced as well as the portcullis, sally port, and castle keeps. The longbow and crossbow can be researched depending upon civilisation. The chariot line evolves into a new cataphract line of cavalry.

Since some factions already have heavy cavalry throughout the Iron and Classical age, they continue to have them here. However, I think the last chariot users are going to have their chariots upgraded to cavalry at least by now.

Some factions get crossbows (French, German, Italy, Spain), some retain the eastern recurved bows (Persia, Russia, Egypt, Turkey, (Byzantine) Greek) and the British get their longbows.

Your ideas about castles sound interesting, how exactly would you integrate portcullis and sally ports into gameplay?

Renaissance Age

First appearance of gunpowder units. Artillery changes siege warfare, eventually rendering large stone fortifications obsolete. (14th-15th century). The peak of the cataphract line of cavalry.

No arguments here.

Colonial Age

Mixed Pike-Musket-Infantry. (think 16th-17th century) Expanded naval options. (ships lose the ability to ram each other, but are now standardized equipped with artillery, whereas before, units needed to be garrisoned). Warships are now large ships-of-the-line. Trade ships can be upgraded to "Galleons" that can defend themselves. Artillery (cannons) now replace old-style siege weapons. Fortifications revert back to wood and earth.

All of your ideas are good. One must see how self-defending trade ships turn out in gameplay, though. (e.g. players creating fleets of trade ships for military operations, since they are likely to be cheaper than regular warships)

Enlightenment Age

Full gunpowder infantry line. (18th - 19th centuries) Nationalism rises your territorial bonuses, but it is not more difficult to control new territories. Balloons introduced for reconnaissance. Ironclad warships introduced. Field artillery receives a new "grapeshot" anti-infantry feature.

You mean there should be a limit for expanison in the late game?

About ironclads and baloons. There was a "Industrial Age" following the Enlightenment age which had all those. For the Enlightenment Age, I was going more for a Napoleonic look, and ironclads were, to the best of my knowledge, not underway at this point. I think there could a "transition ages" addon be made, which would bring the Industrial and the Dark Age (between Classical and Medieval) into the game. These were the ages that were the most pain to throw out, I admit.

Industrial Age

Oil (Energy) resource is now available. Armoured units (primitive tanks, dreadnaught battleships) change warfare drastically. (no boarding of ships anymore, for example) First primitive aircraft. Full-automatic weaponry ("machine guns") introduced. Chemical warfare now possible.

One anti-infantry infantry line (ex-Archers and Marksmen) are equipped with full-automatic weapons from this age onwards. I don't know if I want to implement chemical warfare, though. Despite making what is essentially a war game, I have moralic issues if it comes to the gas warfare present in WWI. Yeah, I know I am hypocritical here.

For the reasons stated above, I would prefer "Imperial Age" for this one.

Atomic Age

Rapid evolution of aircraft and tanks. All cavalry lines now replaced by mechanized equivalents. First nuclear units (slow and vulnerable nuclear bombers). Most fortifications replaced by pill boxes, fox holes, metal fencing, and outposts. Paratroopers. Aircraft Carriers introduced. Spy planes introduced.

Exactly. (Should cavalry still be around in WWI/Imperial, though?

Information Age

Nuclear units become more advanced, nuclear missile bases and nuclear subs are now available. Further advancement of land, air and sea units. Game now becomes less about holding territory and more about researching technology and "force projection" far away from your territory. Tanks, Aircraft carriers, and aircraft reach their zenith. Spy unit introduced, which has multiple functions, such as: assassination, sabotage, stealing technology, and biological warfare. Spy can also bribe groups of enemy units into turning into "freedom fighters," uncontrollable by either player, but hostile to the enemy player.

Interesting ideas about spy units. But I think they should be aviable earlier - then again, they would be a major twist for the later ages.

Global Age

(21th century economics and warfare)

All aircraft replaced by drones, which cost a lot of resources, but do not add to the population cap. Satellite recon available. Nuclear bombers replaced by space-based tactical nukes. Infantry are now "enhanced," depending upon the player's line of research, either technologically or biologically. New territories that come under the player's control are in a constant state of rebellion.

Drones = unmanned aircraft? Just to get that clear.

"Satellite Reconissance" was actually a technology, which would lift the FOW over your territorries and Shrouds of Darkness over the entire map.

Once again, should there be limits to the player's expansion in the later ages? Please explain your concept further.

----

You have some great stuff posted here, most of which I totally agree. Many thanks for this creative addition to the mod.

Hey now. You guys are missing the all-important Chalcolithic, or Copper Stone Age. Shame on you. tongue.gif

Believe me, it was in at some time. Along with two ages who are now combined under the middle ages, a exclusive Late Antiquity/Dark Age, a Industrial age and four future ages. It is just to reduce the scale. At least a bit ...

Edited October 21, 2010 by SMST

[Mythos_Ruler]

Well, some factions can have "cataphract" cavalry an age early. I am thinking along the lines of Cataphract -> Knight -> Paladin. Like that.

[SMST]

I envision it more like Proto-Cataphract (Iron) -> Catapract (Classical) -> Knight (Medieval) -> Paladin (Renaissance).

Thus it will be possible to give the Persians and Scythians/Sarmatians superior heavy cavalry. (as opposed to Egyptian or British chariots)

[Mythos_Ruler]

Well, yeah, sure.

[SMST]

You had more points than just the aviablility of cavalry units. I was wondering especially about your ideas about tribute and the fact that you obviously want to restrict player expansion in later ages.

[Mythos_Ruler]

I think in later ages you basically evolve your "empire" into a nation-state, so actual physical expansion becomes less important.

[SMST]

Good idea, but wouldn't that make the late game somewhat defensive? Though this would be historically accurate, the point of RTS games is to move on the enemy's territory and finish him up eventually.

Not to be said that could be changed, of course. Maybe there could be the option of a cultural or economic victory as opposed to the "destroy everything"-gamestyle that governs AoE, for example.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Perhaps in later ages "victory" is redefined.

[SMST]

Maybe reaching the Global Age and researching all technologies may activate a victory timer, similiar to wonders in AoK. (then again, I have to phase out the wonder victory I already devised, see Egyptian faction)

[SMST]

Updated the OP with revised factions and ages and added some brief description on plans for territorries.

[SMST]

Hey-ho.

I had some alternative thoughts about factions lately - instead of covering one specific nation, region or ethnicity, they could cover broader "cultures", which would allow for 1) reducing the amount of factions, thus reducing the amount of work needed, and 2) more individuality of the factions itself, perhaps with subfactions in 0 A.D. manner representing single "nations".

Western

They would start off als rather generic barbarians (Celts, Germanians, Dacians, the like), then evolve into Feudal Europan Kingdoms, then pre-modern and finally modern Western Nations. They would be edged towards the late game with tanks, aircraft etc. and rely mostly on average warband/peasant units with a few elite units (knights and the like), however, they would also be the first faction to fully adopt gunpowder. Probably conquest and economical bonusses.

Mediterranean

They would resemble Classical Greeks/Romans in the earlier ages, Byzantines in the Middle Ages. I have no idea yet how they would evolve in the modern ages. Core of their army should be heavy infantry, ranged troops and cavalry secondary. Good naval capabilities. Probably science bonusses.

Mid-Eastern

Obvious, I think - Persians/Assyrians/Babylonians in early ages, Arabs/Seljuks/Ottomans in the middle, modern middle east in the modern ages. Weaker infantry, but good ranged and superb cavalry units. Bonussed in trade and science, maybe.

Far-Eastern

China, Japan, Korea and the like. Maybe, just because there is a huge difference between the first and the latter ones, just China for now. Slogan: "Mass over materials". Cheap units, both economical and military, but indiviually rather weak as compared to other factions. Population and economic bonusses.

African

Supra-saharan Africa - I don't know if that term actually exists, but definitly not Zulus, but more Sudanese, Ethiopian and Egyptian. Good cavalry and traders. Lightly armored, but very mobile infantry.

Steppe

Nomads, like Scythians, Huns and Mongols. Cavalry based (almost no infantry). Highly mobile. Perhaps mobile buildings in the earlier ages.

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What do you think? Less and more generic, but more diverse factions or more, not-so-diverse, but more authentic factions? Numbers for comparison, the idea described above has 6 factions, whereas the older version has 10 of them. In addition, the newest idea has a culturally broader scope, while the original concept is pretty much limited to the nations around the Mediterranean and Europe.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Mediterranean

They would resemble Classical Greeks/Romans in the earlier ages, Byzantines in the Middle Ages. I have no idea yet how they would evolve in the modern ages. Core of their army should be heavy infantry, ranged troops and cavalry secondary. Good naval capabilities. Probably science bonusses.

That seems pretty logical. The thing I think that should happen is that they would eventually rely heavily on religion and mercenaries.

Mid-Eastern

Obvious, I think - Persians/Assyrians/Babylonians in early ages, Arabs/Seljuks/Ottomans in the middle, modern middle east in the modern ages. Weaker infantry, but good ranged and superb cavalry units. Bonussed in trade and science, maybe.

What about the Israelites?

[Mythos_Ruler]

Could go the "AOM" route with the cultures and allow the player to choose different things as they age up, customizing their culture along the way.

[SMST]

That seems pretty logical. The thing I think that should happen is that they would eventually rely heavily on religion and mercenaries.

Well, that works good for Byzantium, but not so good for any modern Mediterranean faction. (which would be pretty much like the Western ones)

I could go for an "What if..." scenario, in which the Byzantines were never defeated and evolved into a modern Nation, but I don't like that too much. Alternatively, they could evolve after Renaissance Age into either Western or Middle Eastern. (the player would be able to choose)

What about the Israelites?

Yeah, and Sumerians, Hittites, Kassites, Aramaeans, Gutaeans, Elamites, Medes and Phoenicians. Didn't bother to list them all.

Could go the "AOM" route with the cultures and allow the player to choose different things as they age up, customizing their culture along the way.

I thought that the player would choose sub-factions when he enters the Iron Age. These would provide him with special units, bonusses and technologies. Much like 0 A.D.

Customizing a culture sounds pretty good. I could see this done via chossing government forms or religions/ideologies. A choice-based tech tree like the one planned for 0 A.D. is also a must.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

This might just be me, but I think that it would be more appropriate to add in another age in the Ancient era called maybe the "Imperial Age", an age after the "Classical Age". I think that if an age like that was implemented, then you would have room to squeeze in the Marian Rome and the Pax Romana era. After that, I think that it would be good to have an age called the "Dark Age". At this period of time, the Romans would have split and the barbarians would be going rampant. The advantage of having this would be giving room for the Goths, the Northmen, the Vandals, etc,... Then the Medieval Era could focus more on the knights, castles, and domination of the Catholic church and the eventual reformation.

[SMST]

Definitly a Dark Age, you're right. I am not so sure about the fifth age for the Ancient Era. In fact, your "Imperial Age" IS my Classical Age (Marian Romans and everything), but remember that the Ages are about stages of development, not neccessarily chronological. So, the Classical/Imperial Age would contain Marian Romans, Hellenistic Macedonians and Saitic Egyptians, even though they are seperated from each other by some 300 years or so.

This, however, is only true for my first faction draft. For the second, I might just be able to put it in a chronological order, if you have no Problems with Roman legionnaries evolving out of Phalangites and Hoplites, that is.

Edit:

I also thought about an seperate Age for WWI. (which is now included in the Industrial Age)

Edited December 7, 2010 by SMST

[SMST]

Plans for the Mediterraean Faction so far:

Stone Age: Generic early Mediterranean cultures.

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Bronze Age: Mycaenean/Minoan culture. Chariots and first appearance of armor.

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Iron Age: You can choose a subfaction here (Greece/Rome)

Greece: Dark Age/Geometric Greece. Chariots and first cavalry units side by side. Early hoplites.

Rome: Early Republic. Strong Etruscan influences. Designed in a way that it could resemble any early Italian culture

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Classical Age:

Greece: Classical Poleis. Hoplites in their prime. Disappearance of Chariots. (replaced by skirmishing cavalry)

Rome: Late Republic. Polybian army. (hastati/principes/triarii - basic/advanced/elite)

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"Imperial Age" (this needs a better name)

Greece: Hellenistic Armies. Phalangites&hetairoi cavalry.

Rome: Early Empire. Classic Marian Legionnaires. Auxila infantry&cavalry.

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Dark Age: The subfactions merge again into a common Late Rome/Early Byzantine style.

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Medieval Age: High Byzantine Era. "Greek fire" ships. Cataphracts.

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Renaissance Age: Late Byzantine. Increasing importance of mercenaries. First gunpowder units.

After that, the Mediterranean faction either merges into the Western and the Mid-Eastern faction (dependant of the player's choice) or evolves into a seperate Russian faction (which is justified historically since Russia saw itself as heir of the Byzantinian Empire, but would be a bit hard to justify gameplay-wise since the Russians are not really known for high-quality infantry)

Edited December 11, 2010 by SMST

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Much better. I would recommend that you call the "Imperial Age" perhaps the "Conquest Age". I would also recommend calling the "Stone Age" the "Patriarchal Age" too.