Vantha Posted October 26 Report Share Posted October 26 Cardia's not bad, but I would prefer something historically more significant. Imagine if we can inspire players to do research about the colony they heard about in the game. They should be able to find more than just a short Wikipedia entry, no? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vantha Posted October 26 Report Share Posted October 26 What about Tarentum? See https://www.worldhistory.org/tarentum/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Taranto They are also known to have had some bloody conflicts with local tribes. Though, I'm not sure where we'd get units and buildings for those. Maybe we can take something from Delenda Est? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted October 26 Author Report Share Posted October 26 https://stockton.edu/hellenic-studies/documents/chs-summaries/cargill91.pdf I found this, under the title: Athenian colonies. I think we should look for other colonies, even if they are from the large Greek ethnic groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted October 26 Author Report Share Posted October 26 4 minutes ago, Vantha said: What about Tarentum? See https://www.worldhistory.org/tarentum/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Taranto They are also known to have had some bloody conflicts with local tribes. Though, I'm not sure where we'd get units and buildings for those. Maybe we can take something from Delenda Est? Taranto was founded in 706 BC by Dorian immigrants hailing from Sparta. Its origins are peculiar: the founders were Partheniae, sons of unmarried Spartan women and perioeci (free men, but not citizens of Sparta); these unions were decreed by the Spartans to increase the number of soldiers (only the citizens of Sparta could become soldiers) during the bloody First Messenian War, but later they were nullified, and the sons were forced to leave. There are some doubts about Taranto being of Spartan origin. Another tradition indicates Taras himself as the founder of the city; the symbol of the Greek city (as well as of the modern city) is Taras riding a dolphin. [...]In its beginning, Taranto was a monarchy, probably modelled on the one ruling over Sparta; around 492 BC king Aristophilides ruled over the city. The expansion of Taranto was limited to the coast because of the resistance of the populations of inner Apulia. In 472 BC, Taranto signed an alliance with Rhegion, to counter the Iapygian tribes of the Messapians and Peucetians, and the Oscan-speaking Lucanians (see Iapygian-Tarentine Wars), but the joint armies of the Tarentines and Rhegines were defeated near Kailia, in what Herodotus. claims to be the greatest slaughter of Greeks in his knowledge, with 3,000 Reggians and uncountable Tarentines killed. In 466 BC, Taranto was again defeated by the Iapygians; according to Aristotle,[5] who praises its government, there were so many aristocrats killed that the democratic party was able to get the power, to remove the monarchy, inaugurate a democracy, and expel the Pythagoreans. Thus; Tarentum became an aristocratic republic, and became democratic when the ancient nobility dwindled. ++++ We can say that it is a expansion of the settlement of Tarentum. By the way, here is what I told you about the colonizing ethnic groups. Dorics Achaeans Ionics North West Greeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfHassen Posted October 26 Report Share Posted October 26 25 minutes ago, Vantha said: What about Tarentum? See https://www.worldhistory.org/tarentum/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Taranto They are also known to have had some bloody conflicts with local tribes. Though, I'm not sure where we'd get units and buildings for those. Maybe we can take something from Delenda Est? That could work, what's the new strategy for Sparta after the new patch? Is it anything outlandish or would it be a good starter civilization? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grautvornix Posted October 26 Report Share Posted October 26 Imagine you are Aeneas, survivor of Trojan war, arriving at the Italian coast (maybe historically not correct. Also noticed we don't have that civ, should it be something greek?) You land with your last ship with 5 comrades (citizen soldiers e.g. peltasts) and 5 women citizen. Build a harbour. Use your citizen to collect berries and wood. Use the soldiers to hunt wild goats. Survive a wolf attack. Collect sufficient wood and food to top up your supplies so you can build a CC. Build a fishing boat and go fishing. After you have collected enough food, train a scout. Start discovering your environment (beautiful landscape and various resources - forest, wild game, stone quarries) until you meet your neutral neighbor. He offers you an alliance if you send 100 units food and 100 wood). become an ally. Help them fighting some bandits responding to their call. Build a market Start a trading route with your ally. Next game: the son of Aeneas is challenged to build a small military force to fight against bandit attacks. Barracks, outpost, manned tower. Soon you are to establish Rome... (I do agree there would be far too many timejumps...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted October 26 Author Report Share Posted October 26 39 minutes ago, Grautvornix said: Imagine you are Aeneas, survivor of Trojan war, arriving at the Italian coast (maybe historically not correct. Also noticed we don't have that civ, should it be something greek?) But that is the Trojan War, that is many centuries, to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vantha Posted October 26 Report Share Posted October 26 1 hour ago, ShadowOfHassen said: That could work, what's the new strategy for Sparta after the new patch? Is it anything outlandish or would it be a good starter civilization? To my knowledge, Sparta has turned out as quite an exceptional civ in terms of gameplay. But we can align it to the average civilization by blocking some uncommon structures and technologies. 40 minutes ago, Grautvornix said: Imagine you are Aeneas, survivor of Trojan war, arriving at the Italian coast (maybe historically not correct. Also noticed we don't have that civ, should it be something greek?) You land with your last ship with 5 comrades (citizen soldiers e.g. peltasts) and 5 women citizen. Build a harbour. Use your citizen to collect berries and wood. Use the soldiers to hunt wild goats. Survive a wolf attack. Collect sufficient wood and food to top up your supplies so you can build a CC. Build a fishing boat and go fishing. After you have collected enough food, train a scout. Start discovering your environment (beautiful landscape and various resources - forest, wild game, stone quarries) until you meet your neutral neighbor. He offers you an alliance if you send 100 units food and 100 wood). become an ally. Help them fighting some bandits responding to their call. Build a market Start a trading route with your ally. Next game: the son of Aeneas is challenged to build a small military force to fight against bandit attacks. Barracks, outpost, manned tower. Soon you are to establish Rome... (I do agree there would be far too many timejumps...) Aeneas, hmmm... more of a mythological character. Though, he lived before 1000 BC which I'm afraid is too early. How much new content can we realistically afford and get for this campaign? For the idea with Tarentum, we'd need at least several completly new units and buildings for the antagonistic South Italic tribes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grautvornix Posted October 26 Report Share Posted October 26 15 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: But that is the Trojan War, that is many centuries, to say the least. Right, but interestingly we have a (very nice) map with exactly the scenario of Greeks attacking Troy. My point is Rome was certainly not built in a day, but as a scenario for newcomers it could provide certain attractivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grautvornix Posted October 26 Report Share Posted October 26 I admit that this would sacrify historical accuracy in favor of a story. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted October 26 Author Report Share Posted October 26 16 minutes ago, Grautvornix said: I admit that this would sacrify historical accuracy in favor of a story. I understand that, but it is difficult without adapting the units to the Bronze Age. Fortunately 0 A.D at some point its versions will have other Bronze Age and Middle Age civilizations to cover more history. That's what mods are for, one day they could be an expansion of the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted October 27 Author Report Share Posted October 27 Leave a video here. Check 24:39 I like the idea of teaching how to build a good base.(28:05) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vantha Posted October 27 Report Share Posted October 27 1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said: I like the idea of teaching how to build a good base.(28:05) Me too. We should structure our first tutorial scenario very similarly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vantha Posted October 27 Report Share Posted October 27 Hmm, in a campaign, players start each game from zero (more or less); they need to develop a base and an army completely from scratch. I know, technically, that doesn't have to be the case, but the tutorial should teach how to play entire games, from start to finish. On the other hand, in the process of establishing a colony there are no such "resets", the city is only build up once. Any ideas to work make that work with the story? How do other campaigns deal with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfHassen Posted October 27 Report Share Posted October 27 24 minutes ago, Vantha said: Hmm, in a campaign, players start each game from zero (more or less); they need to develop a base and an army completely from scratch. I know, technically, that doesn't have to be the case, but the tutorial should teach how to play entire games, from start to finish. On the other hand, in the process of establishing a colony there are no such "resets", the city is only build up once. Any ideas to work make that work with the story? How do other campaigns deal with that? Well, going back to my original idea and combining it with your outline. In scenario 0 they scout. Scenario 1 they build up and get attacked. Scenario 2 they leave the colony to figure out who attacked them and meet an ally, and in Scenario 3 they have chased the enemy to his base and have to do a full out attack. Each time they have to build a new civic center and start pretty much from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vantha Posted October 27 Report Share Posted October 27 (edited) 17 minutes ago, ShadowOfHassen said: Well, going back to my original idea and combining it with your outline. In scenario 0 they scout. Scenario 1 they build up and get attacked. Scenario 2 they leave the colony to figure out who attacked them and meet an ally, and in Scenario 3 they have chased the enemy to his base and have to do a full out attack. That's a certainly good way to connect the different scenarios. But does it provide a logical reason/explanation for why one has to start all over each time? I mean, in a real world situation like this, one would construct a single base and then conduct all expeditions from there. Or is this "flaw" just something to accept in RTS campaigns? Edited October 27 by Vantha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted October 27 Author Report Share Posted October 27 55 minutes ago, Vantha said: On the other hand, in the process of establishing a colony there are no such "resets", the city is only build up once. You can start in nomadic mode with a large army. And then the locals(enemy) send in small waves of soldiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted October 27 Author Report Share Posted October 27 31 minutes ago, ShadowOfHassen said: Well, going back to my original idea and combining it with your outline. In scenario 0 they scout. Scenario 1 they build up and get attacked. Scenario 2 they leave the colony to figure out who attacked them and meet an ally, and in Scenario 3 they have chased the enemy to his base and have to do a full out attack. Each time they have to build a new civic center and start pretty much from scratch. I had exactly this in mind. The missions should be made diverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted October 27 Author Report Share Posted October 27 18 minutes ago, Vantha said: That's a certainly good way to connect the different scenarios. But does it provide a logical reason/explanation for why one has to start all over each time? I mean, in a real world situation like this, one would construct a single base and then conduct all expeditions from there. If we choose a story, it will happen on its own. But what if we do a poll? what colony will it be? If we start from the Mediterranean everything will be connected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfHassen Posted October 27 Report Share Posted October 27 28 minutes ago, Vantha said: Or is this "flaw" just something to accept in RTS campaigns? It's a flaw. In age of empires i'd get a huge army and then in the next scenario have 5 men. Personally I liked the Lord of the Ring's Battle of Middle Earth's method of allowing you to bring all level 2 units with you, but I don't think that can happen in 0 A.D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted October 27 Author Report Share Posted October 27 The topic of continuity is interesting and would be novel. Saving resources from one map to another, the difficult part would be transferring troops from one scenario to another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfHassen Posted October 27 Report Share Posted October 27 Just now, Lion.Kanzen said: The topic of continuity is interesting and would be novel. Saving resources from one map to another, the difficult part would be transferring troops from one scenario to another. That would be tricky. Something like how Battle for Middle earth did it might work, but if we did resources it'd be a nightmare to balance. You'd have to account for the player who narrowly wins a scenario and the player who wins the scenario with thousands of extra resources, and allow both to be able to enjoy the next mission. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted October 27 Author Report Share Posted October 27 4 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: The topic of continuity is interesting and would be novel. Saving resources from one map to another, the difficult part would be transferring troops from one scenario to another. Just now, ShadowOfHassen said: That would be tricky. Something like how Battle for Middle earth did it might work, but if we did resources it'd be a nightmare to balance. You'd have to account for the player who narrowly wins a scenario and the player who wins the scenario with thousands of extra resources, and allow both to be able to enjoy the next mission. I imagined that it will be stored in the profile, as a statistic. Before starting, similar in AoE III and with the decks. (I didn't play battle for middle earth). @wowgetoffyourcellphone likes battle for middle earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted October 27 Author Report Share Posted October 27 8 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: I imagined that it will be stored in the profile, as a statistic. Before starting, similar in AoE III and with the decks. (I didn't play battle for middle earth). @wowgetoffyourcellphone likes battle for middle earth. Might work with AoE III deck + game stats. Stats determine the resources and the number of soldiers, which would be like a piggy bank. You could save the resources and the soldiers would remain in the form of cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grautvornix Posted October 27 Report Share Posted October 27 (edited) Why not starting from a shipwreck with a handful of men & women plus a hero like in a nomadic mode? Start building a CC and collect berries and wood. Build a house. Build a dumpsite /storage near the wood. Train a scout, go hunting, get attacked by a wolf. Build a farm and some fields. Build a stable and produce cattle. Start buidling a small army. Scout the environment. Get attacked (trigger map) by bandits. Continue discovering, meet your friendly neighbor who offers an alliance. Build a market and start trading with your new ally. Respond to a request for help against bandits. All this does certainly not train the strategic basics but the fundamental mechanics of the game. Strategy should be the subject of the next lessons. For everything wer might need some guidance material, e.g. a tutor window giving tasks and explaining strategic options (where to build what, how to optimize things etc.). Could that be implemented? Edited October 27 by Grautvornix Typos and finalizing the question at the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.