krt0143 Posted September 10, 2023 Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 Sorry for the probably stupid question, but does the AI know how to use ships (beyond simply fishing)? I've played several maps with big stretches of water, and while the AI did build a dock each time, and did usually launch some fishing boats, it only once built a war ship, and that warship didn't do much (I eventually stumbled upon it while exploring). Long story short, I got the (maybe wrong) impression the AI isn't very comfortable around ships. So, is the AI able to handle island maps, or will it be just launching a few ships without much conviction or purpose? Does it know how to transport units on ship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurken Khan Posted September 10, 2023 Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 Petra is a landlubber. A while back the AI tended to spam ships to a point where they couldn't move. Dozens of ships. Maybe the fix overdid it a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krt0143 Posted September 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said: Petra is a landlubber. Aw snap. This means I can't play any of those cute maps where the AI hasn't a direct (and large) land bridge to my town center. Bummer. (Maps like Corsica vs. Sardinia, Dodecanese, and such...) Edited September 10, 2023 by krt0143 fix schpelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurken Khan Posted September 10, 2023 Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 Just try it. I don't know how the AI will behave when it has to use ships. Think it's been a while since I saw an enemy warship; when I do I upgrade mine to the max and try to outnumber them 3/1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabuDabu Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 (edited) Unfortunately, the artificial intelligence, not only in this game, still often remains at a low level when it comes to competition. I can see that the problem of it building warships does not only affect me. I think it's probably an underdevelopment of something, rather than an unwillingness to navigate the seas and fight battles. Edited February 24 by RabuDabu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krt0143 Posted September 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 10 hours ago, Gurken Khan said: I don't know how the AI will behave when it has to use ships. Probably not at all. From what I've seen, I'm afraid it will just use up all resources on its island and then wither away, with heaps of unused land troops it didn't find how to send my way. Why I say that? I played an "archipelago" random map, and the start island of the AI did have a (rather complicated) land bridge to the main island, so at one point the AI did attack my new settlement there, but it didn't follow up, probably unable to find that path again, or rather blocked by the fact that the shortest route would had been across a narrow water straight: I was just on the opposite shore, at outpost visibility range. (This was one of the cases BTW where it did build a dock but didn't even bother to build fishing boats.) I surmise that the AI used that existing land bridge (with initially goes in the opposite way) only as long as it didn't know where I was: Once it knew, it tried to take the direct path, which was stopped by water... Obviously the solution to that would had been the AI building transport ships and using them to ferry it's troops across the water, but if it doesn't know how to, it could only stand at the beach and shake its fist at me... Yes, I guess the "if my land units need to cross water, build transport ships, do [load routine], sail to a point close to the destination and do [unload routine]" thing is hard to code, but it needs to be eventually done, else the cheesy tactics against the AI is to hide behind water and wait till it runs out of steam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freagarach Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 Sorry to chime in here as well,,, You can see our AI code here: https://code.wildfiregames.com/source/0ad/browse/ps/trunk/binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/ai/petra/. There is code for transport and such, so if that doesn't work consistently, one maybe can check why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krt0143 Posted September 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Freagarach said: Sorry to chime in here as well,,, I was hoping someone would... 10 minutes ago, Freagarach said: There is code for transport and such, so if that doesn't work consistently, one maybe can check why? All right, I'm game (pun intended): I'll try a Corsica/Sardinia map and watch what the AI will do. In this map (as far as I have understood) you're both on opposite sides of a large straight of water, so if the AI doesn't use ships it won't ever become a threat. (I'll try it later today, right now Real Life calls) Edited September 11, 2023 by krt0143 schpelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurken Khan Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 1 hour ago, krt0143 said: I surmise that the AI used that existing land bridge (with initially goes in the opposite way) only as long as it didn't know where I was: Once it knew, it tried to take the direct path, which was stopped by water... The AI always knows where you are/has a fully revealed map (cheater). Maybe it has blocked itself with a building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krt0143 Posted September 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 11 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said: Maybe it has blocked itself with a building. No, that wasn't the case. I checked before razing everything because I was curious what the AI had been doing all that time, and I'm sorry to say "not much". But then again I was on "easy" setting, so that might change something. Oh well, I''ll try later this afternoon on "normal" difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krt0143 Posted September 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 Okay, mea culpa, me culpa, mea maxima culpa. On "normal" difficulty the AI does indeed use ships to transport troops, and it does it fast. (I had just reached the second age.) Partly good news, since it means I can play those sea maps I like, partly bad news since I'll get my backside handed to me by most civilizations (Britons aren't a seafaring civilization...). In my test I played against the Carthaginians (rich idea!), who immediately built a dock, then a second, which immediately built a quinquereme, then a second, and then started the incessant charter flights to my shore... There was no way I could stop them with my "medium warship" ("medium" standing for "mediocre" I guess), even after filling it with slingers. As for towers, they don't even bother my frail little warship, so I guess the catapult-tooting quinqueremes would have them for appetizers. I was toast. My, the AI is fast, very fast. I don't mind it to be efficient or ruthless, that's actually good, but I sure mind it to be lightning fast. As said elsewhere I'm past my prime, and need to catch my breath every now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LienRag Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 On 11/09/2023 at 8:44 AM, Gurken Khan said: The AI always knows where you are/has a fully revealed map (cheater). Maybe it has blocked itself with a building. I understand how it would weaken an already weakened army to remove that cheat, but could it still be an option at game start (set by default, with a big caveat if one opts out of it "the AI is already weak as it is, it would weaken it more") ? Obviously it would first require some minimal scouting code, but I don't believe that systematic scouting is very hard to implement... Scouting and counter-scouting is a very important part of an RTS game, and a quite fun one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurken Khan Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 11 minutes ago, LienRag said: could it still be an option at game start Don't know. I think the behavior of the AI largely depends on knowing the map (attacking, new CCs...). Also don't know if we have someone currently working on AI. Maybe @Freagarach knows more? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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