oshron

thats kind of why i suggested just a fictional setting for the learning campaign: generic roman settlers, generic greek merchants, generic celtic raiders, like that, because all sorts of complications arise with absolute historical accuracy otherwise. though that idea for athenian colonization of sicily doesnt sound too bad. it could also be that there are six parts to the learning campaign that focus on each of the original civilizations and each on a different aspect of gameplay, like perhaps the military portion could be focusing on teh greeks at thermopylae, for example, while scouting for resources could be done by the iberians and phase advancement by the romans

or the etruscan units could be editor-only units, or they could just be simulated by romans or celts or something

before i suggested basing the learning campaign on philip's rise in macedon, but now i think that maybe the best idea for a learning campaign would be to feature the romans in an entirely fictional scenario just to teach all the basics of the game. maybe it would just be some roman settlers going into gaul and setting up a base, dealing with raiding celts

well ive been working on a cro-magnon faction for a mythology mod that i have ideas for

awesome. that means the Hit and Run cultural power i came up with for my modern Mongol faction works would it also be applicable with tanks? and possibly mecha?

will ranged units, or at least ranged cavalry, be able to attack while in motion? if not, i suggest that as being a bonus for any nomadic tribes that would be included in the second pack, particularly the huns and/or mongols

a thought occurs to me: this idea wouldnt really work on non-provincial maps (i may be wrong here; im under teh impression that you can decide whether or not you want to play on a map with provinces). this would also pose some problems having to do with major god bonuses and civilization powers for my mod ideas. some civilization powers i came up with, for instance, involve provinces on maps and concern units entering or exiting them (for example, the Soviet Iron Curtain power makes it so that no units can enter or exit soviet territories for a minute or two). but then, how would this work on non-provincial maps, both with certain civilization powers and with my aforementioned capturing idea? i think a solution may be to program it to recognize both map types differently. on provincial maps, it affects everything within a territory, but on non-provincial maps, it affects everything within a certain distance of teh civic center, lets say 50% more than the civic center's inherent line of sight (so that no bonuses to LOS that are applied are taken into effect; in distance terms, this would probably be something like an in-game quarter of a mile or even half a mile)

i was imagining it in a kind of scorched earth sense for a modern era mod that i have ideas for. basically, when you capture a civic center (which i assume would be the focal point of a territory and capturing it or building a new settlement on top of it would transfer control of that territory over to you), the non-military buildings automatically go to you because the general populace has little choice but to cooperate with you, whereas the soldiers, and therefore the defensive structures and military buildings like towers and barracks, and possibly docks, would remain under enemy control and have to be captured or destroyed individually, basically meaning that those would be centers of resistance in the newly captured province and they would have to be subdued for the scorched earth thing i mentioned earlier, if the town is captured, all buildings that could benefit the enemy--houses, farms, and production buildings--are automatically destroyed so that they cant use them for themselves but the towers remain so that they continue staging resistance

hey, here's an idea: when you capture a territory, civic buildings like houses within that area are automatically transferred over to you, though defensive and military buildings like towers and barracks remain in enemy control, so you still have to destroy or capture them. how does that sound?

lol they WOULD have infinite javelins, but they just dont use it as a primary means of attack. with units that have "Javelin-Attack" as their special ability, they only occasionally throw a javelin and are otherwise strictly melee soldiers. these javelins have a pretty good chance of hitting, but they wont always. they'd also just pack more of a punch than the javelins of regular units with throwing spears

with the idea of the chieftain(and some other units), a "javelin-attack" is a one-shot attack at range for large damage if it hits and not a constant as with regular javelinist units. the thracian warrior unit available to teh hittite faction also has a javelin attack

well, yeah, but that doesnt mean the factions previously existing in 0ad have to be exactly the same in this one. it would be best to try to differentiate the factions from the original as much as possible as for 10,000bc, i liked it. not as bad as people say in my opinion. but lets not discuss that, i can tell the conversation would turn very nasty very quickly and yes, most or all of the cro-magnon units will be based on real artifacts from that time.

ill look into making them a heroic culture, then. ill almost certainly include some of the other avatars of vishnu as heroes the hero units of heroic cultures dont necessarily need to be of divine origin or even mythological, they just need to be named and have a good amount of information to their names. i was thinking of giving the chieftain a javelin-attack, kind of in reference to 10,000bc(the film)in which the hero threw his spear, otherwise used for melee fighting, at a "god" to kill him i was planning to give the viziers less military prowess because they arent really commanders or anything the greeks have hoplites as their basic infantryman; im trying to differentiate it from 0ad as much as i can. but hoplites are still a major focus, theyre kind of the all-around soldiers for the greeks eagle warriors ARE in teh game, but not as heroes. theyre a super-unit available to all of teh aztecs. i think it would be easiest to program to just have jaguar warriors drain health, it increases their chances of survival

well, actually, the norse here DO have ranged weapons, iirc, an archer. i based their regular units on known viking age weaponry no, im not sure on the name for the carthaginian sacred band. as far as i know, its just "sacred band" but ill change it if i need to. as for spears, im actually not too sure, spears just generally have a greater reach than swords thanks. ill look into those. i was starting to think that maybe a good hero would be an Avatar, a mortal(i guess)incarnation of the various hindu gods, and they could have different powers depending on which major god you chose maybe i should have typed it up a bit differently. the type of hero/civilization doesnt change as the game progresses, each faction has just one hero type available at all times. the main idea is that sovereign cultures are ones that have very well-known or distinctive kings, rulers, etc, heroic cultures are ones that have lots of distinctive characters(like the greeks), and chivalric is actually kind of the filler culture. the main function of heroes will be to fight myth units and collect relics(if relics are included) as well as serving as primary characters in the campaigns. the egyptians have the pharaoh as their sovereign. a "mass-production hero" is a hero that you can have more than one of at a time and can pretty much train infinitely. the norse jarls are an example of this, you can create as many of them as you want to. in contrast, heroic cultures get several heroes, but you can only have one of each of those heroes because theyre actual characters and not generic commanders like jarls. with sovereign cultures, you get one hero to start with (the sovereign, hence the name) as well as one other hero that you can make alot of to support him, hence the celtic king and druid and the egyptian pharaoh and vizier (in AOM, the other egyptian hero was a priest, but i decided to reassign them as mesopotamian heroes in reference to the epic of gilgamesh).and yeah, i may not have worded what i said as well as i thought i did. ill go back and explain the heroes in greater detail: King (Celtic, Sovereign): the celtic leader is teh King, based on Arthurian legend. he's a powerful infantry swordsman-type unit that has bonuses versus all unit types, but he's no match for large groups of mortal soldiers. if the king dies, he'll be replaced by an heir. the King can also yell a Battlecry to boost allied morale and lower that of enemies Druid (Celtic, Sovereign support): the King is supported by the Druid, a magician wearing a ram's skull, he uses magic to attack and utilizes another kind of magic to heal allied units at range Pharaoh (Egyptian, Sovereign): the Pharaoh is the egyptian leader. he, too, is a powerful warrior, but only against myth units. he uses magic to attack at range and switches to a khopesh(sickle-sword)when enemies get too close for his magic to be used effectively. he can also Empower buildings and building foundations, causing them to be built faster or to train units/research technologies faster(this is basically a kinder form of the stereotypical whippings that you see in stories about the exodus) Vizier (Egyptian, Sovereign support): the Phaaoh's support unit. i havent come up with much else forthe vizier yet, but he'll be functionally similiar to the Priest from AOM, healing allied units and using magic to attack at range. its also interesting to note that only the pharaoh can pick up relics for the egyptians, and the vizier cannot Greek Heroes: each of the Greek major gods gets a different set of heroes, all of whom are taken directly from mythology: Zeus gets Jason, Odysseus, Leonidas, Bellerophon, and Heracles; Poseidon gets Theseus, Hippolyta, Atalanta, Philoctetes, and Polyphemus; and Hades gets Ajax, Orpheus, Chiron, Perseus, and Achilles. these heroes are functionally similar to mortal soldiers depending on what their weapon is, but most or all of them also have special abilities. for instance, Odysseus switches between bow and sword depending on how far away an enemy is, Perseus uses the head of Medusa to turn myth units to stone, and Bellerophon rides on the back of Pegasus to traverse all terrain with ease Priest/Priestess (Mesopotamian, Chivalric): the Mesopotamians get one mass-production hero, the Priest. they variably get either Priests or Priestesses(programming would make one of the two appear randomly, though they are both the same unit). they use magic at range and may also attempt to convert enemy units to your side. i havent come up with much else for them. as i said before, the priest and priestess are in reference to Shamhat from the Epic of Gilgamesh, which is one of my favorite mythical tales Jarls (Norse, Chivalric): the norse also get a single mass-production hero unit, the Jarl. jarls are permanently mounted nobility that have greater than normal bonuses versus myth units. they are pretty much identical to the Hersirs from AOM(there were both Hersirs AND Jarls in AOM, but jarls were a mortal unit while hersirs were heroes, which didnt make much sense as jarls outranked hersirs in history) Jaguar Warrior/Ocelotl (Aztec, Chivalric): the jaguar warrior is a pretty basic chivalric hero except for the fact that he has teh special ability of Drain, which steals health from enemies while he fights. this is in reference to the stereotype (and possible fact) that aztec warriors cut out and ate the heart of their captured enemies in order to gain their strength Chieftain & Shaman (Cro-Magnon, Sovereign): i came up with the idea for this long before i started work on a 0ad version of this idea. back then, it was going on an AOM format instead. this is actually based on teh first scenario in the Greek campaign of Empire Earth, in which the tribal chieftain Hierakles and teh shaman Kalkas must both survive. this faction is unique because the Cro-Magnons get TWO sovereign hero units and no mass-production hero. the chieftain is a powerful warrior who should be taken to the frontlines with your soldiers, but teh shaman is comparatively weak, effective against only myth units, but also capable of healing allies. additionally, if you worship Kronos, the Shaman gets the ability to emulate a mighty lion spirit and shapeshift into a cave lion to fight. (its Kronos' bonus) Samurai (Japanese, Chivalric): i had originally planned to make the japanese a heroic culture because of their many well-known historical figures from the sengoku period, but the redating of all the factions ruled out any and all sengoku period heroes and even my personal favorite semi-legendary warrior monk, benkei, as hero units. so, i instead re-evaluated and made samurai and ninja(formerly super-units) into their new heroes. samurai are very powerful warriors with bonuses against all units that can switch between different weapons for different enemies (ex: against archers, he'll drop his katana and instead take out his yumi, the japanese longbow) Ninja/Shinobi (Japanese, Chivalric): im kind of cheating here, because ninja as we know them came to prominence in the edo period, not between the Yamato and Nara periods. ninja are stealthy reconnaissance units with versatile attacks much like teh samurai, but i havent come up with much else for them. Crusader (Christian, Chivalric): a permanently mounted warrior of God that has the special ability to attempt to convert enemy units to your side. i may decide to make lucifer's bonus so that he has a different hero unit just for logic; why would a crusader side with satan? Roman Heroes: im planning for this to be all historical entities, generals and rulers and such, from the pre-determined timeline that arent already present as major or minor gods, so that means no caesar, augustus, aeneas, or romulus as heroes for teh romans, but all other roman figures are fair game Druzina (Slavic, Chivalric): a mass-production hero. i forget exactly what the role of the druzina was in history, but i think they were something along the lines of vassals to slavic/russian princes and other royalty. i decided on this guy a long time ago now for the ones i havent decided on yet: Chinese:: i havent yet decided what the Chinese hero(es) will be, but possibilities include a chivalric culture with certain imperial entities as heroes, or a Heroic culture with folkloric chinese figures as heroes, such as the Eight Immortals (minus Zhongli Quan, who is a minor god) and possibly Hua Mulan (on whom the disney film Mulan was based) Hindus:: as i said before, ill be looking into this Hittites:: the hittites will hopefully be another Heroic faction. i was planning to give them legendary trojan heroes like the aforementioned Hector and possibly Priam or Paris Persians:: as i said before, the current idea is to make them a Chivalric culture with the Satrap as their hero unit, but this is now under reconsideration. if i decide otherwise, theyll be based on historical personages instead, such as Darius III and Xerxes Semites:: i want to make the semites a heroic faction if i can, with heroes such as David and Hannibal. i have not yet figured out what i could do for teh canaanite subfaction, but Goliath is a definite possibility. Polynesians:: no ideas whatsoever at this point. theyll probably end up a chivalric faction. Soninke:: because the mali empire was renowned for the wealth of its rulers, and because theres alot of information relating to the mali empire's rulers, i thought that they could be a heroic cultures whose heroes, instead of being warriors, were economic rulers and gave bonuses to resource gathering and commerce instead of to the military. if its a chivalric culture, theyll just have the collective Mansa hero unit that gives economic bonuses. if its a heroic culture, theyll have different rulers and other historical and hopefully mythical/legendary figures instead which would give different economic bonuses. if i can help it, id also hope to give one or two military-related heroes to each major god for the purposes of balance. EDIT: IDEA! maybe the hindus could have heroic hero units that are avatars of each major and minor god! basically, semi-mortal incarnations of each god that they worship, each having abilities relating to that major/minor god. for instance, the Avatar of Agni could perhaps have some kind of fire-related power, and perhaps the Avatar of Ganesha could have an Empower-type ability for technology

ive pretty much rejected the original wonders. i may decide to reinclude them, but thats not my major focus right now oh, ive also decided on all of the factions. i think ive pretty accurately represented the world: 1. Austro-Hungarians 2. Aztecs 3. Brazilians 4. British 5. Byzantines 6. Chinese 7. Confederates 8. Dutch 9. French 10. Germans 11. Iberians 12. Indians 13. Indochinese 14. Iranians 15. Irish 16. Israelites 17. Italians 18. Japanese 19. Koreans 20. Mongols 21. Nazis 22. Ottomans 23. Plains Indians 24. Russians 25. Saracens 26. Scandinavians 27. Soninke 28. Soviets 29. Yankees 30. Zulu

hey ive recently done a good amount of work into this project, recopying it into a format that conforms more closely to 0ad. as a result, many unique units i had before are no longer counted as unique units and ive decided to cut them back to four unique units to a culture, except in teh case when a unique unit is a strictly naval unit, in which case that faction gets another unit for fairness on maps that have little or no water. what i finished just earlier today was the painstaking task of makig a list of all the new units. im now going for what AOK and 0ad had, with one tech tree with different units available or unavailable to different cultures. sometimes, stages of advancement with units are skipped over for a culture, but that just means that the unit will skip over that class of unit instead of terminating there. for instance, the aztecs get a swordsman unit at the beginning but dont get the musketeer unit that it advances into for most other cultures, but when the regular (next advancement up from musketeer) becomes available, the aztec swordsman skips over teh musketeer and goes straight to regular. in other cases, an initial unit is not avaialble and the culture gets the advanced unit later on without having to research into it (ex: i dont plan for either of the american factions to get the knight cavalry unit, but they automatically get the reiter cavalry unit when it becomes available) here's what i have so far for units. this shows lines of units as they advance. i havent really sorted out when some unit lines terminate though and no longer advance. but, w/e id also like to make it clear that im not really going for 100% accuracy, but im instead trying to have improvements of units based on what kinds of technology appeared in human history, and sometimes im actually catering to the appearances of units for one faction or another. one of the reasons there are so many units in the rifleman line is because in at least one point i plan to use that to differentiate the outfits of soldiers in different factions, specifically, the yankee and confederate basic infantry; the actual unit named Rifleman is available in the gilded age(which includes the civil war for teh game) just so that the two distinct outfits of the two american nations can split off then, with blue yankees and gray confederates Battering Ram Camel Archer Camelry >> Rifle Camelry Cannon >> Field Gun >> Howitzer >> Heavy Howitzer >> Super-howitzer Catapult >> Saker >> Artillery >> Heavy Artillery >> Self-propelled Artillery >> Self-propelled Artillery II >> Mechanized Artillery Cavalryman >> Cuirassier >> Heavy Cuirassier Citizen Crossbowman Fishing Boat >> Fishing Ship >> Fishing Trawler Galley >> Galleon >> Cruiser >> Armored Cruiser >> Battlecruiser >> Heavy Cruiser Hand Cannonneer >> Grenadier >> AP (armor-piercing) Rifleman >> Bazooka >> Heavy Rocket Holy Man Knight >> Reiter Landing Craft* Merchant >> Cargo Truck >> Cargo Truck II Merchant Ship >> Cargo Ship >> Cargo Ship II Militia* Petard Pikeman >> Halberdier >> Gatling Gun >> Machine-gunner >> Heavy Machine-gunner >> Metalstorm Machine-gunner Skirmisher >> Skirmishing Gun >> Skirmishing Rifleman >> Heavy Skirmisher >> Assault Skirmisher Skirmishing Cavalry Swordsman >> Musketeer >> Regular >> Rifleman >> Service Rifleman >> Semi-automatic Rifleman >> Assault Rifleman Trebuchet War Canoe Whaling Boat >> Whaling Ship Privateer (warship) Dragoon >> Heavy Dragoon Fire Ship Frigate >> Steam Frigate >> Armored Frigate >> Heavy Frigate >> Stealth Frigate Ship-of-the-Line >> Ironclad >> Dreadnought >> Battleship >> Heavy Battleship Mortar >> Trench Mortar >> Heavy Mortar Settler Wagon Monitor >> Heavy Monitor Torpedo Boat >> Submarine >> Nuclear Submarine >> Heavy Nuclear Sub Armored Car >> Heavy Armored Car >> HMMWV (Humvee) Dirigible (airship) Reconnaissance Plane >> AWACS >> AWACS II Transport Truck >> Transport Truck II Biplane >> Biplane >> Jet Fighter >> Heavy Jet >> Hypersonic Fighter Destroyer >> Heavy Destroyer >> Guided Missile Destroyer >> Heavy GMD Fighter-bomber >> Strike Fighter >> Tactical Bomber >> Heavy Tactical Bomber Gas Grenadier >> Flamethrower* >> Heavy Flamethrower >> Plasmathrower Improvised Incendiary >> Heavy Incendiary >> Heavy Incendiary II Light Bomber >> Light Bomber II Tank >> Infantry Tank >> Main Battle Infantry Tank >> Heavy Main Battle Tank >> Super Infantry Tank Cruiser Tank >> Main Battle Cruiser Tank >> Light Main Battle Tank >> Super Cruiser Tank Dive-bomber >> Smart Dive-bomber Marine >> Heavy Marine Medium Bomber >> Strategic Bomber >> Strategic Bomber II >> Heavy Strategic Bomber Aircraft Carrier >> Heavy Carrier Atomic Bomber >> Nuclear Bomber >> Nuclear Bomber II Cargo Plane >> Cargo Plane II >> Heavy Cargo Plane Carrier Fighter >> Carrier Interceptor Flame Tank Mobile AA >> Heavy Mobile AA >> Mechanized AA Tank Destroyer Torpedo Bomber >> Heavy Torpedo Bomber Anti-tank Helicopter >> Heavy AT Copter Attack Helicopter >> Assault Helicopter Helicopter Gunship >> Heavy Gunship Medium Cargo Helicopter >> Heavy Cargo Helicopter Missile Submarine >> Heavy Missile Sub Refueling Plane >> Refueling Plane II Satellite Short-range Missile >> Mid-range Missile >> ICBM >> Heavy ICBM Stealth Bomber >> Stealth Bomber II Stealth Fighter Bishop-class Mech >> Bishop-class Mech II >> Bishop-class Mech III >> Bishop-class Mech IV >> Bishop-class Mech V King-class Mech >> King-class Mech II >> King-class Mech III >> King-class Mech IV >> King-class Mech V Knight-class Mech >> Knight-class Mech II >> Bishop-class Mech III >> Bishop-class Mech IV >> Bishop-class Mech V Pawn-class Mech >> Pawn-class Mech II >> Pawn-class Mech III >> Pawn-class Mech IV >> Pawn-class Mech V Queen-class Mech >> Queen-class Mech II >> Queen-class Mech III >> Queen-class Mech IV >> Queen-class Mech V Rook-class Mech >> Rook-class Mech II >> Rook-class Mech III >> Rook-class Mech IV >> Rook-class Mech V Mobile Base Plankton Ship Floating Fortress *Landing Craft: this idea came to me recently. in 0ad and presumably all games based on it, theres no dedicated transport ship as there have been in previous games liek AOK or AOM. so, for this, warships like frigates, dreadnoughts, and cruisers will continue to double as transports. however, the ships can just drop soldiers off on any shore, they have to garrison into an allied dock first. so, if you want to make an amphibious assault, you have to create Landing Craft, which are trained at any and all warships. they dont count towards your population and hold 5 soldiers each. think D-Day to get an idea of what this would look like. i think that this adds to realism. *Militia: you may remember that, as is planned for 0ad, all regular units are citizen-soldiers, fighting the battles but also gathering resources. well thats not really the case in the present day, so the vast majority of soldiers are strict military units and resources are generated by citizens. however, all civilizations can train Militia, which are citizen-soldiers, meaning that they gather resources AND fight. theres gonna have to be regulations for how many you can get at a time, but these are basically the informal soldiers that youd rally from tthe local populace Red Dawn-style *Gas Grenadier/Flamethrower: granted, it doesnt make much sense for a guy with poison gas to upgrade into a guy with fire, but i thought this would make the most sense because they both use similar means of spreading the fire or poison

its kind of in tribute to AOM; in that game, the norse had only one ranged unit, and it was a throwing-axeman. the reason i say its more fitting is because the vikings are more associated with axes than the celts. also, the norse dont have many ranged units, and even though the throwing-axeman is only available to odin, i think it helps even things out a bit more its not actually the theban sacred band--the carthaginians are the ones that its more directly deriving from--but i thought that story about the theban sacred band beating the spartans was a bit too goo to pass up in terms of derivation for the unit accuracy is a major thing, but ABSOLUTE accuracy isnt necessary as far as im concerned; it shouldnt get in the way of enjoyable gameplay functionally, anyone with a club or axe is being counted as a swordsman for the purposes of programming. for instance, the basic norse melee infantryman is variably wielding a viking axe or a viking sword, but he acts in the same way as a swordsman unit from any other faction.as for the leiomano, it IS more sword-like--in fact, its pretty similar to the aztec macana, which was also something of a bladed club or an axe rather than a sword. im not too sure on the size, but i think its about the length of a forearm or maybe even as long as a comparable sword from another culture, more or less. the stingray spear is kind of a stretch; it was presented as a maori weapon in the Spike television series 'Deadliest Warrior' but i looked it up on wikipedia for quick reference and didnt find anything, so i decided to mark it off as a fictionalized weapon for the people of rapa nui. theres also precedence in other myths: iirc, the son of Circe in greek myth used a spear tipped with a stingray's barb to kill odysseus in the events after the odyssey ended. interesting. yknow, this actually reminds me of teh Sky Palace from an old super nintendo game i have, which was the home and base of operations of The Master (basically God, but censored in the english release because of laws at the time). so i think ill chalk up Vimana as an editor-only unit cool! i said it before, but ive decided to redate the hindu faction to iron age india, so its now the Iron Age Hindus instead of the Harappan Hindus (or maybe ill change it to Vedic Hindus, i dunno). this means alot more technology becomes available for thembtw, what do you think the hindu hero unit should be? with the hindu faction ideas of others, the only hero unit ive really seen is just a generic "Prince" unit, which isnt very good as far as im concerned. and since the japanese are now a chivalric culture instead of a heroic one like i originally planned (because of the new timeline for the japanese, nearly all of their more famous warriors like benkei and historical figures from the sengoku period are out of the question), i want to see if i cant find more factions that can be heroic ones btw, i should probably clarify what i mean by "heroic" and "chivalric". i decided a long time ago that each faction will be categorized as "Heroic", "Sovereign", or "Chivalric". these all determine what kinds of hero units they get for regular gameplay: heroic cultures get historical and mythological named characters as heroes(like the greeks); sovereign cultures get special "leader" heroes as well as a mass-production hero to support the sovereign (like the celts or egyptians); and chivalric cultures get one or sometimes two mass-production heroes (like the mesopotamians or norse). this is also based on AOM, but thats kinda beside the point. what ive basically decided for each culture thus far is this: Celts (Sovereign) King and Druids Egyptians (Sovereign) Pharaoh and Viziers Greeks (Heroic) various Greek characters Mesopotamians (Chivalric) Priests/Priestesses Norse (Chivalric) Jarls Aztecs (Chivalric) Jaguar Warriors Chinese (undecided, probably Chivalric or Heroic) ?? Cro-Magnons (Sovereign) Chieftain and Shaman Hindus (undecided) ?? Japanese (Chivalric) Samurai and Ninja Christians (Chivalric) Crusader Hittites (undecided, probably Heroic) various Trojan and Hittite characters like Hector Persians (undecided, probably Chivalric, maybe Heroic) either Satraps or historical persian generals and leader like darius or xerxes Romans (Heroic) various historical roman characters like caesar and scipio Northwest (undecided, probably Heroic) various historical and mythical characters like david and hannibal Polynesians (undecided) ?? Slavs (Chivalric) Druzina, or maybe changed to something else Soninke (undecided, probably Chivalric or Heroic) either a single mass-production hero or mali emperors like mansa musa that give economic rather than military bonuses

well here's the wikipedia article on war elephants: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_elephant it lists egyptians as having used elephants, but perhaps at a later time than the egyptian faction dates, so i could take them off. i think maybe i should also clarify that demigods/super units are put into two categories: city phase demigods, which are available to all players of that faction, and empire phase demigods, which are unique to each major god. for the semitic faction, only Tanit gets war elephants. Mahouts (hindu war elephants) are available to the entire hindu faction. since ive already decided that the city phase demigod for the persians is the Scythed Chariot, only one of their major gods will get a war elephant. some quick research shows that it was the romans that utilized elephant archers, so maybe ill give that ability to the semites since theyre the closest to that and because i dont really want to give the romans an elephant. i also decided to give the semitic war elephant the passive "Pathfinding" ability, which makes it so that they arent slowed by tough weather or rough terrain, meaning that they would be able to march effectively even during a sandstorm or a blizzard, and also that they can move to certain depths in water and maybe even a short distance onto cliff terrains, all in reference to hannibal taking his elephants over the alps. btw, i know that the scythed chariot may be anachronistic, but my research shows that the persians were the ones who pioneered the design. if its TOO anachronistic, ill transfer the scythed chariot over to either the mesopotamians or egyptians btw, here;s what ive come up with so far for demigods for each faction: Lambton Knight (Celts, Toutatis only): fully-armored and spiky swordsman Painted Warrior/Woad Raider (Celts, Beira only): a ferocious scottish warrior wielding a claymore, i havent come up with an ability for him yet "Egyptian War Elephant" (Egyptians, this one may be dropped) Argonaut (Greeks): greek sailor that doesnt count towards the garrison limit of ships or buildings, and can also swim short distances into shallow water Myrmidon (Greeks, Zeus-only): legendary infantry warrior, i havent come up with anything for this guy yet Companion Cavalry (Greeks, Poseidon-only): famed macedonian cavalry, i havent come up with anything for this guy yet Scythian Archer (Greeks, Hades-only): historical cavalry archer that occasionally fires a single arrow with 100% accuracy Berserker (Norse): historical warrior that occasionally rampages about to hurt all enemies within reach, but loses some health in the process Throwing-axeman (Norse, Odin only): technically celtic but more fitting of the norse, he does special splash damage with his axe Hersir (Norse, Loki only): i havent come up with anything for this guy yet Eagle Warrior (Aztecs): i havent come up with anything for this guy yet Shorn One (Aztecs, Quetzalcoatl only): historical aztec elite warrior society who were punished with death if they took even a single step back in battle. after going off to attack something, whether it be by command or by seeing an enemy, you cannot issue any more commands until they become idle on their own Chu-ke nu (Chinese): well it wouldnt be a chinese faction if it didnt have the famous repeating crossbow! has a high rate of fire and deals alot of damage, and can even effectively take on siege weapons in groups Dragon Rocket (Chinese, Ying Zheng only): working title, this guy is basically a siege infantryman, utilizing primitive gunpowder rockets to, in three words, blow @#$% up. he's very powerful, but his accuracy is bad, he gets hit with recoil whenever he fires, and has no other means of attack. though not necessarily accurate, i figured more technologically advanced soldiers are the best choice for the chinese, and that gunpowder units would be really good to help them out. the lack of a regular attack and poor accuracy is for balance. Mahout (Hindu): war elephant, no special ability thus far other than being able to trample enemies(that meaning it hurts adjacent enemies while in motion, alot of the larger cavalry and numerous myth units also have this ability) Longbowman (Hindu, Indra only): working title, occasionally fires a single arrow with 100% accuracy Kanabo Warrior (Japanese, Izanami only): a powerful japanese warrior, possibly a samurai, in thick armor and wielding a kanabo. a kanabo was a very heavy japanese weapon that was essentially a metallic staff. its weight made it very unwieldy and it was said that only oni were strong enough to use them effectively. the kanabo warrior her utilizes it to smash enemies, and has teh special ability of ignoring the inherent armor of units, though any special upgrades that they may have are still brought into account Morningstar (Christian): may be reassigned to a specific god, uses a secret stash of holy water to deal more damage to myth units in a single blow Thracian Warrior (Hittites, Tarhunt only): yeah, i recently fixed up the hittite pantheon. the thracian warrior is a barbarian swordsman, but he has a special javelin attack in reference to teh famous thracian peltasts. i made him a swordsman with a javelin attack because i didnt want him to have the same ability as the next hittite demigod: Amazon Warrior (Hittites, Arinna only): thoughh the amazons come from greek mythology, they supposedly lived in asia minor, which is where the hittites dominated. also, the amazons--and the thracians, for that matter--were supposedly allied to the trojans. the amazons use two weapons interchangeably: they start off with a bow, but when enemies get within a certain distance, theyll switch out and use a sword(or a spear; whichever is more accurate). amazon horsewomen arent present though, at least not in regular gameplay. Scythed Chariot (Persians): may be transferred to a different faction, deals damage to flanking enemies while in motion Gladiator (Romans): i havent come up with anything for this guy yet, but they have different appearances for each major god: Vesta's looks like a hoplomachus, Quirinus has the murmillo, and Mars has the thraex. though they look different, they all function the same. Legioanry (Romans, Quirinus only) Praetorian Guard (Romans, Vesta only) :: im actually having alot of trouble with teh roman demigods, trying to decide who gets what. this is all subject to change. Sacred Band (Semites): originally Tanit's specific unit, i decided to make this guy the collective semitic unit. anyway, he's a citizen soldier, so he can gather resources, and also has a bonus versus heavy infantry because of the famous theban sacred band that was able to defeat the mighty spartan warriors Surus/Punic Elephant (Semites, Tanit only): the aforementioned carthaginian elephant Champion (Semites, Dagon only): the aforementioned canaanite unit, i havent come up with anything for him yet Leiomano (Polynesians, Hi'iaka only): sharktooth clubman Taiaha (Polynesians, Rongo only): Maori warrior with a staff Stingray Spearman (Polynesians, Makemake only): fictionalized warrior from Easter Island :: ideally, the leiomano and stringray spearman would have the same ability, but i dont really want to do that, so im kinda having some trouble here as well Mameluke (Soninke, Allah-only): a cavalryman. i havent come up with anything else for the mameluke yet

with the makara, thats more my inner paleo-nut talking. in terms of a basic design, they would be based on an ambulocetid (more specifically, Maiacetus) but i would conform to the mythological description as much as possible. yknow, i actually dont like how, in fiction, people on other planets refer to dinosaurs they see in their everyday lives by their scientific names and not by a more common name. i guess thats kinda the appeal that makara have to me: they provide a really good common name for ambuolcetid whales with the ants, i dont think itll be much of a problem. in fact, i think the programming is more that it prevents a unit from walking on certain terrain, ie cliffs, and that would just need to be reversed for the ants and certain other units that can also cross tough terrain or water, like the celtic pendragon myth unit(just a big dragon, to remind you), the christian cherub, and the chinese yeti its not so much that i want to really keep elephants out of the game altogether, but that i just dont want to overuse them; if a war elephant comes in for more than one faction, which it will, then i want to try to differentiate them, keep the egyptian, carthaginian, persian, hindu, etc elephants as unique as possible. maybe hindu elephants could pick up a single soldier with its trunk and throw him, maybe persian ones could impale enemies, who knows? oh! that reminds me! (goes to fix up semitic demigods) i decided to on a few Northwest Semitic demigods: the one available to all of the major gods is Sacred Band, a more professional citizen-soldier that has a bonus against heavy infantry; Tanit (Phoenicia/Carthage) has a war elephant(no name yet); and Dagon (Canaanites) have the Champion (in reference to Goliath). i dont have one for Yahweh(Hebrews) just yet vimana was just an idea, if it would tip the balance too far in the hindus direction, it wont be implemented. maybe it could be an editor-only unit instead, and not be a part of regular gameplay? now flying chariots, THERES an idea. i had an idea for an apollo unit a long time ago, Sun Chariot, which was a minor solar divinity leading a chariot apollo had made and shooting rays of concentrated heat. i decided to drop that one, but maybe some kind of flying chariot would be a good idea for the semitic faction; im still missing some myth units for them, and flying fiery chariots are present in the old testament, iirc EDIT: for the semitic elephant demigod, what do you think would be a better name? "Surus" ('The Syrian', in reference to hannibal's personal elephant) or just "Punic Elephant" (in reference to the punic wars, and "punic" means "phoenician")?

yknow, ive been working on an RTS in addition to my mythology idea that focuses alot on more modern history as well, ranging from the renaissance to the future and greatly emphasizing alternative and speculative history as well as actual facts. in one case, a futuristic era goes on to an apocalyptic period in which all civilizations suffer but then come back strong in an age of space travel. a campaign idea in such an apocalyptic world that i came up with focused on a mixed group of native americans that make a settlement on alcatraz and then expand out into more traditional lands. another idea i came up with a while ago focuses on teh southern american sates rebelling, starting up a second civil war, because of an ice age that damages the more rural south while the north, while still colder, doesnt suffer as much

yeah, i figured. i was just referencing the orangutan from the film to give you an idea about which monkeys i was referring to; the bandar-log and other kipling-inspired myth units are all based on the original novel(for that matter, theres also a reference to kaa, who was actually one of mogli's protagonistic teachers in the book and not a villain) who is present as a siege myth unit(because he smashed down a temple wall in the novel) and also doubles as a scout with expanding line of sight while idle) well im not going for perfect mythical accuracy with ANY of the factions: the norse, for instance, have several jotunn (norse giants) as myth units even though the jotunn were the sworn enemies of the norse gods. i think ill be keeping vritra as a myth unitm possibly amphibious, and put down nagas as a false faction instead. i also wasnt planning to make the hydra at all poisonous for the purposes of the game, at least not by default(maybe there could be some technology that upgrades it with venom, i dunno), and i wasnt really planning for multiple heads to be vritra's improvement. see, as with AOM, im planning that most or all myth units, when upgraded with specific technologies, change their name and appearance. for instance, in AOM, when a centaur was upgraded, he became a "Centaur Polemarch" and his appearance was changed: though retaining the same basic model, he acquired a cuirass and helmet signifying that he had been upgraded, and when Trolls were upgraded, they acquired a second head. these are all cosmetic improvements and dont really have any impact on the game. if variation between units is possible, it could be that the makara have one basic model resembling an ambulocetid whale and theres random variables that determine whether or not they also have a fish-tail an elephant-trunk, horns, etc. i guess youre right about that. maybe they could instead be dated to alexander's time. ill try looking into that. fascinating! i was thinking of giving some generic ant-like abilities to them, like allowing them to cross rough terrain with ease, even traversing cliffs that regular soldiers cannot, maybe becoming more powerful in groups, and, after an upgrade, perhaps exploding in a burst of chemicals like certain kinds of army ants are known to doEDIT: ive looked into it and decided that maybe the best time period for the hindus would be Iron Age India. as a whole, this covers the time from 1200bc to 272bc. this dates from just after the IVC to around the time alexander invaded, and also gives us many more options with demigods. war elephants of some kind are pretty much a must, but there can also be a longbowman unit. however, that means id have to come up with a new demigod for brigantia because i dont want to directly repeat units very much(which makes me think, maybe war mastodon isnt that good of an idea for the cro-magnons after all). unfortunately, the famous rajput warrior is out of reach by about a thousand years, give or take. EDIT to EDIT: i also came across the Vimana, a mythological flying machine supposedly present in ancient india. y'think it could have any place as a myth unit or super unit?

oh! could buildings be added onto a bridge? a creative player could use a bridge and docks to make a jetty, or use two bridges to create an artificial harbor protected by towers

i didnt say i was adding orangutans in as hindu units, i was just referencing that in an attempt to remind you, if you were unsure aboiut the bandar-log. again, i want to include the gold-digging ants because its a more interesting myth unit. i figured they would work well as a "swarming" myth unit and could also double as economic units, using their mandibles to dig out gold and otehr metals and carry it back to the civic center. the gold-digging ants were part of medieval bestiaries care to elaborate on yala/vyali? im interested i guess i was mistaken there. ill just repalce the naga with vritra, then(already had it as a unit, but ill just change it around) ill put jalebha down as a naval myth unit then for ganesha; the hindus need more naval myth units, anyway. i think for the game ill try basing the makara's appear, at least in concept art, on an early semi-aquatic whale. i mean, just compare the two and tell me they dont look at all alike: plus, there ARE actual fossil remains from the area that teh IVC was present in of an ambulocetid whale, called Maiacetus. keep in mind that what we're technically deriving this from is the indus valley civilization and not later hindu societies, and the IVC, though present in india, was centered more in what is now pakistan and i WAS planning to have the makara be amphibious, trained on land but going into water as well. jalebha, however, would be strictly naval yeah, anansi is kind of a stretch, but he's from western africa, so im currently counting him towards it allEDIT: oh, and i had yet another idea for a single player scenario. basically, its a world domination scenario, and EVERY faction is present in it all at the same time, each in different parts of an at least relatively accurate map of the world. the goal is just to take over the entire world by wiping out every other civilization so that only yours is present. here's what i have as ideas for where each civilization would start out. it could also be that there is variation for more unpredictable gameplay, so ill list other ideas relating to it as well: Celts: southeastern England, New Brunswick, or Oregon Egyptians: Sierra Leone, east-central Mozambique, or Egypt Greeks: Macedonia, southern Spain, or eastern Brazil Mesopotamians: Iraq, Somalia, or northeastern Yucatan Norse: Labrador, western Norway, or northern coastal Argentina Aztecs: Texas, southwestern Mexico, or Venezuela Chinese: western Mongolia, souther China (around Hong Kong), or Malaysia Cro-Magnons: Yukon, northeastern Russia, or Ecuador Hindus: southeastern Pakistan, southernmost India, or Cambodia Japanese: Japan, northernmost Pacific Russia, or western New Guinea Christians: New Jersey, Florida, or eastern Brazil (seperate from the aforementioned Greek Brazil) Hittites: Turkey, western Kazakhstan bordering the Caspian Sea, or Oman Persians: Ethiopia, Afghanistan, or northernmost Kazakstan Romans: southeastern France, eastern Germany, or southeastern Brazil Semites: Tunisia, southern Kenya, or Madagascar Polynesians: New South Wales (Australia), Indonesian Borneo, or Chile Slavs: central Siberia, southern Ukraine, or southern Finland Soninke: Morocco, Nigeria, or the Cape of Good Hope (South Africa) yeah, pretty much none of it is at all accurate, but thats not the point, the point is just to give a good amount of space between civilizations so that they have room to expand. it would be a provincial map and settlements would probably be located on the locations of the largest cities in each region if the area is very large, otherwise just the capitol of that area. each section of the world would, generally, have its own unique ecosystem. if programming allows it, certain types of weather could become prominent in different parts of teh map during different seasons. what i myself would really like would be the ocean freezing at certain parts of teh map during the winter. also if applicable, there should be teleport points on the map that indiscriminately transport units from one side of the map to the other, simulating a round planet as opposed to a flat game board so, for example, during the winter, you could send an army over the Bering Land Bridge from Alaska into Siberia to strike a civilization just over the sea instead of having to march them across the entire map. alternatively, the entire thing could be set in an ice age in which the entire world freezes over during the winter, completely freezing over some of the world's seas and lakes and creating land bridges, so that, instead of creating a navy, someone who has a base in china could instead just make a large army of foot soldiers and cavalry and then march them over a new land bridge in indonesia during the winter to attack australia. ideally, there would also be other natural entities and occurences, such as migrations and natural disasters, like occasionally meteor storms that strike the map at random. these could even possibly be special meteor godpowers created just for the map that not only destroy what they hit but also leave cool meteorites and introduce alien life forms or plagues into the area a la Andromeda Strain. also, many natural landforms would also be present, creating defensible or easily taken areas that can end up being highly desirable. for example, the Central Asian Steppe could be made into a gigantic stronghold from which the player could launch a campaign to take over all of Russia, or Spain, defended by mountains on the north and sea on all other sides, could be used as a forward base to invade Africa or America

southpark is a satirical show; im trying to show the utmost respect to EVERY entity that appears in the game and i never said that muhammad was a god, he simply FUNCTIONS as one for the purposes of the game, unless i can replace him with a less controversial entity.

i know, but muhammad IS very important to the islamic faith. if i can find another islamic entity that can replace him, i guess i'd do that i dont know about giving ra such a godpower; the godpowers of major gods actually arent supposed to be especially powerful, because theyre available from the very beginning of the gamespeaking of godpowers, which faction do you think should have a meteor-type godpower? Meteor was one of the most powerful godpowers in AOM, and meteors are very common in mythology in general. im currently leaning towards giving it to the chinese, but what do you think? in this order: 1. the reason i want agni to have the gold-digging ant is mainly because i dont want to just give out another supernatural dog as a myth unit; giant ants shake things up a bit. where applicable, i want to make myth units as unique as possible appearance-wise as well as ability-wise 2. i wanted to include dholes because theyre actually a major antagonistic force in The Jungle Book, spreading destruction wherever they go, so theyd probably be something like an early living siege unit, which would also be beneficial because the hindus(representing the primitive IVC, if you remember)probably wont have that many regular siege units 3. i was planning to give hanuman a myth tech that upgrades the bandar-log to vanaras. the bandar-log are also from The Jungle Book; theyre those monkeys that in the disney film are led by that crazy orangutan, King Louie 4. in my research, i gathered that gandharvas were at least roughly equivalent greek centaurs. to differentiate them from their greek counterparts, ill probably arm them with swords or spears 5. unfortunately, there isnt much information that i could find in the way of the timingila, but maybe im just not looking hard enough. in any case, i plan to keep the makara as varuna's myth unit 6. well when i looked up "indian dragon" (which i had previously learned of) it was apparently synonymous with naga. i plan for them to have multiple heads as they are upgraded with technologies, helping differentiate them from the greek hydra 7. ill probably transfer the leogryph over to the persians; theyre the ones that need myth units now. not too sure about those other ones at the moment i finished the zoroastrian persian pantheon as well, i just need to organize it into a setup for each major god. for that matter, the northwest semitic pantheon is also at just that point as well. ive also started work on the soninke pantheon by trying to decide on some west african entities for town phase gods. thus far, ive only got one: Anansi the spider