oshron

they cant move over the fish? THAT'S the problem? well why not just make it so that they have to be NEXT to the fish and then cast out an aesthetic net over them? that aside, shoreline fishing like in AOK would be good. it could be like: "Huh? Hey everyone, look! There's fish near the shore! Come on, let's go get some food!" because, presumably, the fish will be migrating around the map, right?

it would probably just be like advancement in empire earth, though a bit more complicated. youd probably need to research some essential technologies or build some special building, maybe even a wonder, first.

well, really, the egyptians kind of lack a bit in that department, and id rather use less-powerful gods as myth units than outright invent some in more cases than i already have (the scarab and inpu warrior, even though they DO both have basis). though, i must admit, im kind of cheating because im intending for Shezmu to basically be a rehash of the Avenger myth unit from AOM, which was based on horus' role as the one who avenged osiris by defeating set. same goes for the Inpu Warrior (in AOM, its called an Anubite). and ammit is a goddess, too, but i honestly think she's too good of a myth unit idea to pass up, especially since she, surprisingly, WASNT used in AOM antaeus is a christian myth unit because of his mention in The Divine Comedy as one of teh giants who guarded the lowest circle of hell. notice that the furies are also a christian myth unit even though they, too, were greek btw, i also have these new myth units: Mare of Diomedes (Town Phase Hittite myth unit, this carnivorous horse is best used against infantry and has the ability to steal health from enemies while fighting them in reference to their carnivorous traits) Lamia (City Phase Hittite myth unit, the quintessential snake-woman; i havent come up with anything for her yet) Hecatonchire (Legend Phase Hittite myth unit, the hundred-handed giants of greek mythology, though theyll probably have only ten arms in the game or less for simplicity's sake) Kampe (Legend Phase Hittite myth unit, one of the guards of Tartarus, iirc) Wyvern (Empire Phase Christian myth unit, a flying dragon with two legs and two wings; im debating whether or not i should give this to a different faction for balance, either the semitic or mandinkan faction) Nephilim (Empire Phase Semitic myth unit, a kind of giant from Jewish folklore) Shahbaz (Town Phase Persian myth unit; i cant quite remember what this one was or what it did at the moment) Gryphon (City Phase Persian myth unit, aka griffin; the only definitive ability thus far is a leap attack, but its also possible that itll have the same terrain-crossing ability as the pendragon and the cherub, where it can cross water and cliffs but not obstacles, except for when it performs its leap attack) Manticore (Empire Phase Persian myth unit; even though this monster is from Greek mythology, its legend originated in Persia and i knew that the persians would need it more than the greeks) Roc (Legend Phase Persian flying myth unit; serves as the game's only aerial transport. there would also be editor-only rocs that would serve as enemies, but these ones here have a purely movement-based purpose. like the manticore, rocs are present in many different legends but originated in persia, iirc. they can carry A LOT of people because of their size, hence their late availability, and youd probably only be able to get one of them) Aziza (Town Phase Mandinkan myth unit; i cant remember exactly what this one did, but im pretty sure its african in origin) Qareen (Town Phase Mandinkan myth unit; this is a genie that comes from islam itself, and is something of a guardian spirit. my idea is that you can train as many as you want and then have them attach themselves to your soldiers or citizens and it will follow them around wherever they go, defending them when they are attacked or fighting when they attack, but it would only be a minor help) Asanbosam (City Phase Mandinkan myth unit; this is something of a tree vampire native to west africa with iron teeth and claws, but i havent devised anything else for it) Ghoul (City Phase Mandinkan, an earth genie whose abilities i havent yet devised) Catoblepas (City Phase Mandinkan, a scaly wildebeest whose abilities i havent yet devised) Inkanyamba (City Phase naval Mandinkan, looks like a hippocampus with a snake head and neck that can spit lightning; long before i began planning the mandinkan faction, i had intended to make this a cro-magnon unit, so im already a little acquainted with it) Ninki Nanka (Empire Phase amphibious Mandinkan, some kind of water dragon) Ifrit (Legend Phase Mandinkan, a fire genie) im also planning such myth units as vampires and werewolves for the slavic faction, which i recently went over again and replaced some of their minor gods. that reminds me, i still need to go over aztec mythology again and get them back their myth units that reminds me, i also have four ideas for two more potential civs: shamanic Koreans (the native korean religion), Buddhist Vietnamese (or just generic Buddhists with myth units from all ancient Buddhist regions; the reason i propose the vietnamese is kind of in tribute to my friend kiefer, who suggested a vietnamese faction oh so long ago when i asked him what he thought my designs were missing and is vietnamese himself), Copper Culture or some sort of Pacific Northwest (so that there can be a north american amerindian faction that the game seems to be lacking, and even though it would preferrably take from one region, it would need myth units from all over the US and canada and have such myth units as bigfoot, the jersey devil, and the piasa) EDIT: oh, and i also made a general decision on the limits of myth units for each civilization. myth units from thee town phase have an automatic limit of 30, and ones in the city phase are limited to 20, empire phase is 10, and legend phase is 5. this will change with each individual unit type depending on their fame and power, for the purposes of balance. there won't be many units that have their limit as 30, and a fair amount where you can only have one at a time, and almost all of them will take up a lot of population to further limit how many one can have at a time

hey, what does everyone think should be the limits on each individual myth unit? my plan here is to limit myth units so that they are more likely to be used to AUGMENT an army rather than be the sole element of it. preferrably, theyll be limited to a nice even number with one being the lowest and thirty being the highest. i also had an idea LITERALLY just now: perhaps all myth units have a minor morale decrease to nearby allied mortals because theyre nervous being around them--what mortal wouldnt?--so that youre less inclined to leave five cyclopes with an army of hoplites because the morale decrease would stack and therefore leave your hoplites "too scared to think straight" and therefore fight worse than they would if there was only ONE cyclops near them. the same would go for other smaller myth units: intimidating centaurs, soulless metal automatons, surprisingly fearsome cherubs, and wickedly beautiful harionago, and because you would get more of those kinds, they would be the ones youd see more commonly among the ranks of your soldiers now id also like to make it clear that im taking SOME liberties on the legendary creatures here. perhaps most prominent is the presence of more than one of a given mythical creature that there is supposed to be only one of (ie, greek chimera, erymanthian boar, hydra, karkinos, medusa, minotaur, nemean lion, etc). in some of these cases, the limit will be based on their myth, while in other cases it will be based on their strength or when they are available to the player. for instance, you would probably be able to get the maximum number of centaurs as 30 while you could get up to 5 minotaurs (even though there was only one in the legend), while the limit on medusae would be either 3 or 1, either to go along with the myth that there were three gorgons (medusa and her sisters) or because of medusa's strength (a late game myth unit that can turn enemies to stone), whereas the earlier hydra has a limit of three because, even though it is available from the midpoint of the game (the city phase) and is very weak at first, it gets more powerful as it acquires NINE heads, making it absolutely deadly. at the other end of the spectrum, as an example, it the japanese kitsune. theres no way of knowing how many of these fox spirits would have ever existed, theyd be as common as regular foxes. even so, the limit on them is 5 because of how powerful they are

Atlas is also what i decided to name my modern mod of 0ad. i came up with the name long before i heard of 0ad, when it was planned as a Nintendo DS version of Risk

well for Pyrogenesis and for Atlas, its not really phases as i understand it (im not too sure about PG:E at the moment), and they instead cover periods of time. PG:E basically goes from the dawn of human history to the present day while Atlas covers the much narrower time period of 1350 - 3039. and its not so much that the civilization covers a specific nation, though that is certainly the case in most or all of them, and instead more focuses on the people of a given country and, by extension, peoples associated with them depending on source material (for example, some foreign soldiers are available to certain civilizations as unique units, like the Indian Scout available to the Yankees, and theres also more emphasis on alternative historical possibilities than anything else)

i voted roman because its the closest thing to my actual heritage: mixed Italian, Swiss, English, and Czech, but im American by nationality yup. im 100% European mongrel EDIT: d'ohh, i just realized id be more celtic than roman

here's a list of mythological units that i have down so far and a basic description of them where applicable: EGYPTIAN Ammit: loses health constantly but recovers more health than is lost with each kill Apep-spawn El Naddahah Giant Scarab: living siege unit Inpu Warrior: leaps over obstacles Mummy: lays curses on mortals, turning them into his minions Shezmu Sphinx Uraeus Wepwawet CELTIC Aughisky Banshee Bogeyman Dullahan: forces all gates to open for him, regardless of alignment, and occasionally lifts his severed head up and spits fire from it Green Knight: can instantly kill enemies by using magical roots to drag them underground Grindylow Jack-in-Irons Knucker: can poison enemies by biting them Lake Maiden Lambton Worm: can instantly kill enemies by dragging them into water and drowning them, and also regenerates from wounds Niseag: can dive underwater and ram naval units from below, or charge onto land a short distance in pursuit of land enemies, but becomes vulnerable to attack in the process Pendragon: "flies" over terrain, cliffs,and water, but not over obstacles like trees and buildings, occasionaly breathes fire Questing Beast Ram-headed Snake {i may decide to replace this one if i can find a good candidate} Selkie: naval unit, trains at the dock as a seal, but can move onto land and willingly transform into a human to double as an economic unit, and can change back on command or automatically when entering battle Water Giant: amphibious MESOPOTAMIAN Abgal Alu Asag Bahamut Gallu Humbaba: can cause miniature earthquakes that stun mortals and severely damage buildings Pazuzu Rabisu Revenant Sandwalker: can bury itself to hide for up to five minutes at a time, after which it automatically emerges. while hidden, it disappears from the minimap but can still be selected by the controlling player, and automatically emerges from the ground when enemies approach (think Scorponok from the Transformers movie) Scorpion-man Shedu Sirrush GREEK Centaur Cetus Chimera Colossus: special metal construct that can wade into water up to his waist (the actual depth would need to be specified) and can be repaired by mortals as if he were a building Cyclops: picks up and throws enemies at other enemies Erymanthian Boar: occasionally barrels through enemy lines and sends them flying Hamadryad: turns into a tree while idle and disappears, and can turn enemies into trees permanently Harpy Hydra: starts with one head, but acquires another one for every five kills it makes until it has nine, which adds to its attack power Ichthyocentaur Karkinos Medusa: can turn enemies to stone Minotaur: can gore enemies to send them flying Nemean Lion: can roar to hurt and demoralize enemies Stymphalian Bird NORSE Dragonet Draug Einherjar Firedrak Fire Giant Frost Giant Garmr Gullinbursti Kraken: can sink enemy ships by cracking them in two, or it can pick up and throw mortals if it can reach them from the shoreline Lindorm: occasionally sheds skin to heal itself while idle, wraps its coils around infantry to crush them while in battle Mountain Giant: occasionally performs and especially powerful attack vs. buildings, and can kick infantry as a regular attack to send them flying Nokken Sea Worm: occasionnally coils itself around ships to crush them Skin-walker Troll Valkyrie CHINESE Bashe Death Worm: uses an electrical charge at range, occasiionally spits acid for an instant kill Jiang Shi (aka chinese vampire) Jingwei: counter-naval flying myth unit Longma Nian Qilin Shen Shenlong Shishi Zhenniao: has a toxic aura that poisons adjacent enemies JAPANESE Ayakashi: sea snake that drips burning oil on ships as a special attack Basan: siege myth unit, can eat forage patches, like berry bushes and fruit trees, to regain health Daidarabotchi Gashadokuro: devours enemies to regain health Harionago: attacks with barbed hair at range, occasionally attacks everything around her Ikiryo: a man or women who projects their spirit out of the body in order to perform melee infantry and economic functions at a distance (so you could wall off an area and it turns out theres, say, a gold deposit right on the other side of your wall. instead of sending out vulnerable villagers, have an ikiryo gather THROUGH the wall). the downside is that the body loses health as long as teh spirit is outside, but the spirit itself cant be hurt Isonade Kamaitachi Kappa: amphibious, but trains at the dock and becomes very weak on land, is best used against economic units like fishing and merchant ships Kitsune: can possess a single enemy at a time to permanently convert them to your side, but only if you can train taht unit class (ex: if a greek player was given a kitsune in the scenario editor, they wouldnt be able to convert cavalry archers, but demigods/superunits are fair game, and heroes are immune Namazu Oni Raiju Samebito Tengu: initially uses a fan to create a whirlwind, but has a leaping attack when upgraded Umibozu Ushi-oni HINDU Airavata Bandar-log (again, these become Vanaras when upgraded) Daitya Dawon Garuda Gold-digging Ant Jalebha Kaliya Makara Rakshasa Red Dog Rock Python Sahi Vritra ROMAN Arachne Automaton Cacus Charybdis Faun Gigantes Khalkotaur Ladon Laistrygonian Polyphontid Python Scylla Siren Teumessian Fox: can "leap" by teleporting. unlike the leap attacks of other units, the fox teleports even when its not in battle and is just moving around, allowing it to pass through obstacles (suppose its being chased by cavalry, and comes across a wall that doesnt have a gate in it. instead of going around, the fox just teleports past the wall, leaving the cavalry behind. the maximum distance is its line of sight) Vrykolakas CHRISTIAN Antaeus Archangel Basilisk Cherub Cockatrice Furies Gargouille (not to be confused with gargoyle; this guy here is a naval unit) Hellhound Leopard Peluda Quinotaur Salamander Tarasque Unicorn SEMITIC Behemoth Golem Leviathan Ziz

well i know that theres programming in other games where a sound will stop once the object is off-screen. alternatively, the song could just go for, say, five seconds, and then fade out, or automatically stop when you tell them to do something else

perhaps that could be implemented as an aknowledgement sound? like when you tell a ship to go somewhere, it responds with a typical rowing song in that native language.

generally, armor is supposed to protect from melee attacks while shields protect from ranged attacks (this meaning it absorbs some of teh damage and the soldier doesnt get as hurt as they would without it). ill reconsider the shields; im actually not too clear on how technology is set up in 0ad just yet--i havent seen anything about it in the design document aside from a section in each civilization article mentioning how many of which technology types they would get, which suggests there will be one universal tech tree for all civilizations just like there are with units and buildings. actually, sun tzu falls out of the chinese timeframe, so he can't be a regular chinese hero unit (besides, i already decided to make them a chivalric culture was a General as their hero, actually in reference to sun tzu), but you can bet that sun tzu will be available in the scenario editor just like gilgamesh and who knows how many others and, actually, AOK doesnt really required a graphics card. it doesnt utilize 3D graphics (that was introduced to RTS's with AOM, right AFTER AOK. instead, it has sprites (2D graphics)

like i said, my mind goes a mile a minute and its usually hard for others to keep up; im often found talking too fast for people to understand ill try to list them out citizen-soldiers = mortals (though they are still usually referred to as citizen-soldiers; when mortal is used, it refers to everything within that group, and not just soldiers. this also includes female citizens, ships, and siege) heroes = heroes (functionally the same as heroes in 0ad, but, borrowing from AOM, heroes have extra strength vs. myth units and often have special abilities and powers) super units = demigods (again, this is just to go with the mythology theme. there ARE a large number of named demigods that serve as hero units depending on the civilization, and there will be even more that can only be accessed in the scenario editor, like a planned Gilgamesh unit) myth units are the only units that don't have an equivalent in 0ad. myth units are, as the name suggests, mythological or legendary creatures relating to the mythology and/or religion of the faction that they are available to. for instance, the greeks can acquire such creatures centaurs, minotaurs, and cyclopes, while the norse can acquire valkyries, trolls, and frost giants (all of which are from the myths and legends of their respective peoples) sometimes, the unit types overlap. for instance, two of the greek hero units planned are Chiron (a centaur) and Polyphemus (a cyclops), and some demigods are similar to heroes, or some heroes are similar to demigods (in this case, there is the greek hero Hippolyta, an amazon, while the later hittite faction can get an Amazon Archer as a unique demigod unit). in other cases, some demigods, heroes, and myth units can function like mortals, gathering resources and such (examples: the semitic Sacred Band demigod doubles as a citizen-soldier even though he is a super unit, and several shapeshifting myth units, such as the celtic Selkie, can transform into human beings and then be used to gather resources but transform into animals or monsters while fighting or on command by the player) they technically count as mortals, but are generally just a lot stronger and a fair number of them are more powerful vs. myth units, similar to heroes. they often have special abilities or other bonuses that allow them to stand out from regular mortals (for example, the aforementioned "Lithic Archer" will be much faster than regular archers, while the celtic demigod "Lambton Knight" has spiked armor that hurts enemies that are right next to him as a special ability). other times, super units are used to fill in gaps in a civilization's unit lineup to even the odds with other civilizations. for instance, all aztec players can train Eagle Warrior super units in the city phase, which, though they are infantry soldiers, are very fast and fill the same role that cavalry do for other civilizations, since the aztecs dont have any real cavalry (theyre also a civ that gets dog cavalry) yes, theres far more units than are available to the cro-magnons as well many other civilizations. but, going along with what is to be presented in 0ad, ideally, no civilization is supposed to get every unit type. even in 0ad, no civilization gets every unit, but the carthaginians come the closest (i cant remember all the ones they get at the moment, but for regular citizen-soldiers, they are only lacking a cavalry archer and have all the other ones). denying units to a civilization is mostly for historical accuracy (for example, not all civilizations utilized a horse archery, though a cavalry archer is readily available in that case), but i admit that ive kind of cheated with more than one civilization, such as the aztecs: as far as i know, theres no evidence that they used any form of siege weaponry or warhounds, yet i gave them a ballista, a ram, and a war dog as mortal units to help even the odds.in general, the units themselves ARE accurate to each civilizations presented timeline, for the most part. i wouldnt get to bent outta shape over it, though im not sure it works that way. as i understand it, each civilization always gets their initial melee, ranged, and cavalry units right off the bat and then, in the town phase when military buildings become available, they can build a barracks and then train the rest of the citizen-soldiers available to them, and then in the city phase they can build a fortress and get their super units and siege weapons, as well as their heroes. its pretty much the same in Godstorm, except that heroes are instead trained at the civic center as well as the fortress, and the temple is used to train some types of heroes as well as mythological units and, iirc, demigods (i cant remember at the moment if i wrote demigods down as trainable at the temple).lets go over the basic unit types: Infantry Swordsman, Spearman, Archer, Javelinist, and Slinger Cavalry Swordsman, Spearman, Archer, and Javelinist Female Citizen, Merchant Merchant Ship, Light, Medium, and Heavy Warships Ballista, Onager, Ram iirc, those are all the unit types that will be present in 0ad. theyll all come in in the initial release of Godstorm. as well as these, theres also: Sovereign-type heroes, which are "ruler" heroes as i detailed not too long ago Sovereign Support heroes, which assist the otherwise lone sovereign in his duties Chivalric heroes, which can be created en masse Heroic heroes, which never die but instead get knocked out and can be revived, they are always named characters one super unit unique to each civilization available in the City Phase three super units available in the Empire Phase, each one unique to a different major god various mythological units, at least one of which is available to each minor god in the game keep in mind that these ones here have their own unique unit classes, as opposed to being "Infantry Swordsman" or "Cavalry Archer", but are still usually classified as these to give the player a general idea about how the unit functions later on, these units are added as well: Magician and Mounted Magician Standard Bearer Fishing Ship possibly Healer so any given civilization can have a combination of these unit types, and no more. demigods are often used to either add a powerful or legendary soldier from that civilization's history to augment their armies or, as i mentioned before, to help even out their civilization if they are lacking in a certain department (so a civilization lacking in siege weapons, like the cro-magnons or egyptians, maybe receive an "siege infantry" unit that has extra power vs. buildings), or it is used to represent something truly unique to a civilization, like the japanese as a whole have the Samurai, Yamabushi (mountain hermit), Shinobi (ninga), and Kanabo (mace man) super units, while the chinese get the aforementioned early gunpowder weapons perhaps you should go to a store nearby and get age of kings. itll REALLY simplify things here and help you understand alot of the game mechanics im referring to here. its rather old by now so you should be able to get it for, like, five american dollars (not sure what country you live in, lol )the fortress is just what its name suggests: a fortress. a castle, a stronghold, a fortified encampment, a large building used to augment defenses and provide protection to the area around it. the equivalent in AOK is the castle. its a defensive building that doubles as a production building, letting you train powerful siege weapons and super units this is actually an interesting bit that i came up with. i figured a long time ago that the lithics wouldnt be able to research armor technologies but instead automatically receive those upgrades when they advance to the next phase of their civilization, which is graphically represented as them acquiring more clothing, starting off as soldiers with loincloths and other appropriate censoring clothes and, by the empire phase, becoming fully dressed tribal members with lots of fur and hide clothes. they would be able to research weapons technology on their own, perhaps going from stone through two more developments until they can upgrade to copper weapons at the dawn of metallurgy. however, they cant research shield technologies. but even if they could, they would graphically lack shields (meaning that, even though they had that upgrade, the unit as it appears in the game wouldnt have it) the "Lithic Archer" IS a demigod. sorry if i wasnt clear on that while fiery destruction IS vulcan's thing, of the lithic major gods, prometheus is the most fitting.as for sun tzu, apparently a strategy of his was to soak an area in flammable liquids and then lure enemies into the area, after which he would have archers with flaming arrows fire their arrows at the ground and pretty much completely engulf everyone in the area yup. dont worry, there WILL be god-fueled explosions

no problem at all i just decided to call the mythology mod's version of super units "demigods" to go with the mythology theme the only real difference is that all civilizations get one in the city phase, and one in the empire phase (i added on two phases for the mod, in case you didnt remember, so there could be a broader scope of mythology and history for each civ), and the empire phase demigod/super unit is unique to each major god (ex: Zeus gets a Myrmidon in the empire phase while Poseidon gets a Hetairoi [Companion Cavalry]) yes, the general functions of the mythology mod will be virtually the same to 0ad's, with some other differences, so theres citizen-soldiers as regular units (all units except for Heroes and myth units fall into the collective category of "mortal" units; theres a basic AOM-style rock-paper-scissors function where mortals beat heroes [en masse], heroes beat myth units, and myth units beat mortals. numbers still play a huge role, of course, and many myth units can beat heroes easily, etc) according to the 0ad designs ive seen thus far, every civ can train three citizen-soldiers from the very beginning at the civic center: one melee infantry, one ranged infantry, and one cavalry soldier. the wolfdog was kind of inspired by a unit planned for 0ad's celts, which is basically just a mastiff used for combat. the wolfdog is virtually the same to the celtic war dog. the aztecs and one or two other civilizations will also have dogs if the civilization calls for it (basically, cultures that didnt use horses or camels, or at least not to a great extent, ie the aztecs, cro-magnons, and polynesians). the all dog citizen-soldiers will still be hunting and herding units like regular cavalry (iirc, cavalry wont be able to build structures, which makes sense, but the dogs wont be able to regardless) generally, the phases arent really supposed to represent a period of time (though in some cases i do make it out like that, like the japanese and chinese will almost certainly have something like this), and instead represent the development of a nation, as the name suggests. the first three stages are already in 0ad, and, as i said before, i extended it two more phases: Empire (continuing from City, when your civilization is a city state comparable to athens, to go on to controlling many territories, like rome), and then Legend (when your nation becomes so powerful that it is remembered for all time, like rome is). archery is still more complex than just throwing a spear, but i agree, im gonna rewrite the cro-magnons so that all of them get their archers later at their fortress building.ill also clarify on the plumed archer. Age of Kings is the second Age of Empires game, and 0ad was originally planned to be a modification of that like Rise of Rome was, so theres a lot of borrowed elements (in fact, iirc, the hellenic ekdromos super unit for 0ad is apparently 0ad's equivalent of AOK's eagle warrior, which was unique to their two mesoamerican factions). each civ in AOK had one (sometimes two) unique units, like the britons has a longbowman and the japanese had a samurai. the mayan unique unit was the Plumed Archer, a foot archer who ran very quickly because of his lack of armor (or something like that) and was in fact almost as fast as the cavalry archer from that same game. so the cro-magnon archer could be the mod's equivalent of the mayan plumed archer i must apologize to you several times over; my mind goes a mile a minute most of the time and im almost always trying to come up with new ideas for my dozen or so personal projects, all of which im working on at the same time (well, not LITERALLY the same time, but you get my meaning).in this case, im just using the term "all-lithic demigod" to refer to the city phase demigod that will go to the cro-magnons (because lithic is SOO much easier to type than cro-magnon). and yes, it means a demigod that will go to all players of that civilization. the firestarter unit is kind of based on the game spore (where you make your own creature and progress from microbial life to a space-faring empire), and one of the stages in that is a tribal stage where you can either befriend or destroy neighboring tribes. one of the weapons there is a flaming torch, and when one of your villagers picks up one, they become known as "firestarters". the main idea with the cro-magnon firestarter is that he's kind of an infantry siege unit, a man carrying flaming torches that runs in to set fire to enemy buildings and occasionally throws a torch at range, kind of like the javelin-attack that some other units will have (if you remember, the planned cro-magnon chieftain will have that ability). i had planned to give the firestarter to all the cro-magnons so that they all have an additional siege unit (which they would otherwise lack) and to go with the caveman theme, but when you persisted in the matter of the archers, i decided that the firestarter was more fitting of prometheus, who, if you remember, stole fire from olympus and gave it to mankind. fire archers as unique units would be a good idea though. maybe they could go to the chinese, in reference to sun tzu? exactly. when i decided to give them only three citizen-soldiers, i thought "wait, why should they need a barracks, then?" and decided that that would be a good way of making them a bit more unique.a unique setup of buildings was implemented in AOM: for instance, the greeks got the Academy, which only trained greek infantry, while the norse got the Longhouse, which only trained norse infantry and cavalry. but one of the main focuses of 0ad, and presumably all mods therein, is to attempt to simplify the buildings and such that were comparatively complicated in previous games, so instead of having a seperate Barracks, Archery Range, Armory, and Stables building, all four of those are brought together in a single Barracks building that trains all of them. its in-game programming that will be making buildings and unique appear unique when they are really all the same (except for demigods, heroes, and myth units, which will all have their own unique unit classes as opposed to being, say, "Infantry Swordsman Hero" and then be different for each civilization, because alot of the planned non-mortal units will be having special abilities and other traits) im debating which major god to give the cro-magnon horseman unit to; he'd be an empire phase unit and would have to go to either Rheia or Kronos (the other two cro-magnon gods). and yeah, having a war mammoth type unit is just so that theyre @#$%ing cool. it would also help narrow the gap between them and other civs by giving them another siege AND cavalry unit (ive always thought of elephants in RTS games as being siege cavalry, and clearly the guys making 0ad do, too) im not sure if any chinese gods were capable of that. for the game, i DO plan to give the chinese a number of advanced weapons, even if theyre a bit anachronistic. thus far, i have their demigods as the Chu-ke nu (repeating crossbow), Pen Huo Qi (an early flamethrower), and the Dragon Rocket (basically the ancient/medieval equivalent of a trench mortar. think of the rockets used in disney's mulan to get a general idea of what they would look like and how they would function, but to compensate they have relatively bad aim and recoil damage)

okay, okay, you win. again, perhaps i should make archers their all-lithic unique unit instead, because, tbph, i personally just want to keep them as having only 3 citizen soldiers. then they get their archers in the city phase. in fact, perhaps the lithic archers could be godstorms equivalent of the plumed archer from AOK.

lemme check my old documents (i havent yet established a new timeline document for the more recent versions) accordng to the old timeline document, ive got them starting in 7000bc and ending in 3300bc, during the european copper age and just short of written history (cuneiform, which is when the mesopotamians start). as noted in the timeline document, this period covers the early days of copper smelting, obsidian trade, cattle and horse domestication, early towns, irrigation, corn in the americas, the plow, and the earliest city states i understand im cutting off alot of units for the cro-magnons, but im doing this in an attempt to make them a bit more unique; no other civilization lacks the barracks. they get a good number of other units, too, like the mantlet ram and a war canoe (still only one ship and one siege, though). i figured archers and horsemen would be good for unique units because of their requirements of a more complex society and skill to use. the primary balance for this would be that the cro-magnons have more availlable myth units or more potent godpowers theyll be getting a fair amount of technology, dont you worry about that, but there will also be a fair amount of it limited (mostly in the departments of armor, shields, ships, siege, and possibly buildings as well). and all cro-magnons also get the firestarter demigod, a guy with a torch that helps make up for siege. and theres still the possibility of giving them an elephant type unit i DO see your point with the archer, but what do you want me to do about it? id like to keep their unique lack of a barracks oh! here's an idea: maybe the archer could be the all-lithic demigod and the firestarter is prometheus' unique one, since he stole fire and all?

i decided a long time ago that the cro-magnons (i decided to simplify their names, too, btw) would get minimal units because they are so primitive: the Tribesman(spearman), Mammoth-hunter(javelinist), and Wolfdog(cavalry), filling their minimum unit requirements and by this reasoning dont get a barracks (but can use barracks that they capture; they just cant build their own). they dont get an archer as a regular unit and instead get him as a unique unit available only to prometheus because of the ingenuity it would require to first develop a bow. alternatively, they could have a generic Horseman unit and the archer would go to a different cro-magnon god

ive done a bit more work recently. here's some recent developments: LEARNING CAMPAIGN! i decided that the only way to be fair and original was to give six scenarios in the learning campaign, each covering the basic elements of the game plus one cinematic-only scenario that gives a basic overview of the game a la AOM. the first scenario is Unit Movement, focusing on Gilgamesh and Enkidu as they scour the Cedar Forest for teh monster Humbaba; the second is Buildings and Economy, where the Egyptians reestablish their presence as a significant power in the region, and advance to the Town Phase; then Arthur and the Celts must establish Camelot in Military; the fourth scenario is Trading and Navy, in which the Vikings must establish trade routes overland and overseas with other Scandinavians and people in Vinland while defending themselves from rival Vikings with a warships; the fifth and final playable scenario is Siege and Mythology, and focuses on the Athenians, who are being attacked by Atlantis and must destroy a forward base with siege weapons and myth units, and then destroy the Atlantean navy with the help of Zeus. the fifth scenario would also cover other elements of the game that werent covered before, like heroes and demigods. NEW DEMIGODS! Assault Ladder: WIP, Set's unique unit, a "ram" that cant attack but instead drops soldiers on the other side of walls during attacks Fennid: the all-celtic demigod, an irish outlaw who can be trained for almost nothing (only 50 food!) and steals resources from gatherers, but he only stays in your service for 3 minutes and then leaves your ranks, and takes 500 of your gold with him! he's not a thief for nothing! Scythed Chariot: in light of a lack of mesopotamian demigods, i decided to give the scythed chariot (actually persian) to the mesopotamians Assyrian Archer: WIP, a strong archer available only to Tiamat Flint Archer: unique cro-magnon archer available only to Prometheus Tlacalhuazcuahuitl: blowgun warrior of the Aztecs War Rhinoceros: an armored indian rhino used by the followers of Brahma Kaskian: WIP, the all-hittite demigod Amazon Archer: revised Amazon Warrior available only to Arinna, now fires an arrow with 100% accuracy on occasion Zealot: WIP, all-christian demigod NEW MAJOR GOD BONUSES! Living Gods: Osiris' bonus gives the strength and abilities of pharaohs to viziers Genocide: Tiamat's bonus lets you utterly destroy enemies in a territory if you have maximum favor Adaptation: Prometheus' bonus lets you steal technology from enemies Vengeance: Izanami's bonus lets your soldiers return from the dead Resurrection: Jesus' bonus lets your soldiers sometimes return from the dead with maximum health, and NOT as ghosts Deceivers: Lucifer's bonus replaces the Crusader with the Deceiver NEW GOD POWERS! Gate: Ereshkigal's god power turns one of your gates into an Underworld Gate, which strips enemies of all their improvements when they approach it Doppelganger: Loki's god power allows you to summon a spectral copy of one enemy unit that you can control (but if its a unit with a regular unit class, it only works if the player using it has that unit available as well) Fucanglong: Long Mu's god power compels underworld dragons to emerge from teh ground and defend an area Reanimation: this Chinese god power allows you to summon the dead of ages past to fight again Restoration: this Chinese god power calls upon the power of the heavens to heal your soldiers and buildings Snapdragon: this Aztec god power creates a carnivorous plant to defend a small area by lashing out at enemies with thorny vines and occasionally snatch them and eat them alive Yamabito: Izanami's god power causes wicked mountain people to emerge from a forest and fight for you Rain: Indra's god power creates nourishing rainclouds that invigorate your workers Madness: Bacchus' god power inebriates enemy soldiers and makes them attack anyone they see Sacred Grove: Hi'iaka's god power creates a small stand of hawaiian trees that can then be chopped down for wood or, if used properly, to seal up a gap in defenses NEW FALSE FACTION IDEAS! Jackal-men Mummies Nubians Picts (Scots) Sprites (nymphs, faeries, elves, and the like) Lithuanians (medieval pagans, the last to resist conversion in europe) Khmer (the peoples of cambodia) Sukhothai (the peoples of thailand) Yokai (various japanese demons in roughly human form) Majapahit (a medieval kingdom of indonesia) Naga (snake-men of india) Vanaras (ape-men of india) Byzantines (medieval eastern romans) Papacy (medieval papal states) Hellspawn (generic demons of christianity) Mamelukes (medieval egyptian muslims) Warlocks (witches and dark wizards) Aborigines (tribal australian natives) Lizardmen (reptiloids of a lost continent, or possibly lost aliens) aaaand i am too sleepy to list anything else. see ya!

aah. okay. it would be great if they could be captured for realism i imagine it would be something like conversion by a priest in other games? maybe it could be reserved for part2? which reminds me, ill have to go back and change the dog units in Godstorm so that they dont mention capturing citizens

well why not just have their medieval as just "european jews" as a whole? alternatively, you could go with "palestine", which even before modern israel DID have large jewish populations

wait, im a little confused now. does that mean that female citizens cant be captured?

you could include them in an expansion pack. the israelis/hebrews/jews are present enough throughout history that they warrant their own civilization, in my opinion

why not the minoans instead?

or any RTS, for taht matter

here's the changes i would personally make, both in names and in the civilizations themselves: FRENCH: Gauls >> Franks >> Feudal French/Normans >> Monarchist/Imperial French >> Revolutionary French (including Napoleon) >> Republican French BRITISH: Britons >> Anglo-Saxons >> English >> Imperial British >> United British GERMANS: Teutons >> Holy Romans >> Prussians >> Imperial Germans >> Nazi Germans >> Republican Germans (this last one could possibly be split into two seperate developmental stages, West Germans and THEN Republican Germans, but that seems kinda like overkill to me) AUSTRIANS(it may be better to go with just austria; thats what i had originally planned until i decided on austria-hungary instead): Huns >> (medieval Austrians) >> Habsburgs >> Austro-Hungarians >> Austrians RUSSIANS: Slavs >> Kievan Rus >> Imperial Russians >> Soviet Russians >> Federal Russians BALKANS: Hellenes >> Byzantines >> Bulgarians >> Serbians(?) >> Greeks ITALIANS: Romans >> Papacy (as in the papal states) >> Venetians >> Italian Kingdom (encompassing fascist italy as well) >> Republican Italians IRANIANS: Medes >> Persians >> Shahs >> Iranians (there SHOULD be some other stage in here) MESOPOTAMIANS: Babylonians >> (inbetween stages; im not to clear on this history) >> Iraq LEVANTINES: Canaanites >> Palestinians (not too sure on this; maybe you could have an arabian faction instead of this one) ISRAELIS: Hebrews >> (inbetween stages; they were kinda spread out and disunified until israel) >> Israelis TURKS: Hittites >> Seljuk Turks >> Ottoman Turks >> Republican Turks EGYPTIANS: Ancient Egyptians >> Mamelukes >> Colonial Egypt >> Republican Egypt EAST AFRICANS: Nubians >> Ethiopians >> Masai >> Somalians WEST AFRICANS: (undecided ancients) >> Mali >> Songhai >> Congolese >> Nigerians(?) SOUTH AFRICANS: (no changes) CHINESE: Qin >> Han >> Yuan >> Ming >> Song >> Qing >> PRC JAPANESE: Yamato >> Kamakura >> Edo >> Meiji >> Showa >> Heisei (modern Japan; look on wikipedia starting with yamato period for ideas) KOREANS: (no comment; i dont know enough korean history to comment here) MONGOLIANS: (no comment; again, i dont know enough of their history to really comment here) INDIANS: Indus >> Vedics >> Mauryans >> Mughals >> Colonial India >> Republican India SOUTHEAST ASIA: (no comment on the changes, but one medieval power there was the Majapahit which controlled much of indonesia) NORTH AMERICA: (no real changes here, but i still think some Vinland content would be interesting; you should also make note of the "Copper Culture" for their ancient/medieval period) MESOAMERICA: Olmecs >> Mayans >> Aztecs >> Imperial Mexicans >> United Mexicans (if you want teh cubans, you could make another "Caribbean" faction that focuses on the native Caribs and possibly on the Creole, but that seems like overkill) SOUTH AMERICA: (no great changes, but the modern one should be Brazil, which is projected to be a future superpower; thats also why theyre in Atlas) i think ideally you should try to get as many ideas as possible first, and then set up a certain criteria for them: do they have a roughly applicable civilization equivalent in all periods? this would mean that there would have to be an Ancient, Medieval, Pre-Modern, and Modern civilization roughly equivalent to the power. i would also suggest having Modern distinct from the final civilization, which would be them in the present day unless you want to extend it to the future. so, for example: Celts (Ancient) >> Anglo-Saxons (Medieval) >> English (Pre-modern) >> Imperial British (Modern) >> United Kingdom (Present-day, final) even if its not entirely accurate, like for the austrian faction you could have their ancient civilization be the huns and then advance into the magyars/dacians/whatever-equivalent-medieval-austrians, then the habsburgs, austro-hungarians, and finally modern austrians. with the north americans, it could be a collective Amerindians (or the Copper Culture), then Vinlanders (as the medieval, or a seperate amerind civ), then American Colonists, and then if possible two seperate versions off modern america (perhaps American Union and then United States, the Union in reference to the civil war). im not quite sure what the other criteria could be, but i think ive given you a good start

the reason i chose "songhai" as the name for mine is because it was the dominant power in western africa at the time that the Atlas timeline begins, and technically encompasses most of the countries there today (including mali, mauritania, niger, and nigeria). previous names included Soninke, Mali(an), and Mandinka. i was personally planning for them to be a more economic african civilization as opposed to the more military-oriented zulu (and congolese, though they arent in atlas). the economic bonus is based on the apparent wealth and generosity of the rulers of the mali empire, which immediately preceded the songhai empire (case in point: Mansa Musa). i also have a faction just like this in my mythology mod that focuses solely on the mali empire (which was a medieval power). i also have the songhai in here kind of as the alternative history opposite to the french--as an informal rule, i try to have every civilization have a "rival" or "alternate timeline" civ to go with them (like the Yankees/Confederates, British/Irish, Balkans/Turks, and Germans/Nazis)