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Genava55
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Posts posted by Genava55
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New alpha of Pax Augusta
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11 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
Does this sound reasonable?
I have given my opinion based on the evidence but adding the onager is only a slight divergence from historical accuracy. It is not that bad. So yes. Thats ok.
I am not sure an imperial civ will happen in vanilla, due to stubborness, but we can accept this solution.
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Reposting this article about different color and shade resulting from various alloys of bronze and different patina.
https://exarc.net/issue-2017-2/ea/colour-palette-antique-bronzes-experimental-archaeology-project
I made a table with the RGB conversion from the munsell code, this shows the natural colors of different alloys:
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1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
Oh so more like a volley than one machine projecting multiple lead chunks.
in other words "Sulla killed many by means of catapults shooting twenty of the heaviest lead bullets at once," has a double meaning.
Translating ancient Greek precisely is difficult, the exact meaning is often uncertain.
Horace White (1899) gives: "Archelaus planted another great tower on the wall opposite the Roman tower and these two assailed each other, discharging all kinds of missiles constantly until Sulla, by means of his catapults, each of which discharged twenty of the heaviest leaden balls at one volley, had killed a large number of the enemy, and had so shaken the tower of Archelaus that it was rendered untenable, and the latter was compelled, by fear of its destruction, to draw it back with all speed."
While Philippe Remacle (2010) gives : "Archelaus placed another large tower on the wall opposite the Roman tower, and these two towers fought each other, throwing all sorts of darts incessantly until Sulla, thanks to his catapults which launched twenty leaden balls very heavy each time, killed a large number of enemies and caused the tower of Archelaus to wobble, which it rendered unstable, and Archelaus was obliged, for fear of its collapse, to withdraw it quickly to the rear."
It is unclear from the original text if the catapults are throwing twenty balls each time as a whole (one volley of all the machines), or if each catapults are throwing twenty balls every time they are firing (one volley of each machines).
However, from the context, I think it is more coherent they are firing 20 lead balls together (one volley of all the machines) as they are weakening the tower.
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12 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
I don't say this, only that they were used once by a catapult, and that a two armed torsion catapult would be much less suited for this task, so it may have been a one arm catapult.
The argument from Rihll is that the glandes would have been associated to the onager because it looks like a sling and glandes are the name of sling ammunitions.
But I strongly disagree. I think it is simply Sulla using lithoboloi with lead projectiles. As Appian could not say that Sulla threw "lead stones" against the tower, he used a word he was familiar with for ammunition made out of lead.
Two-armed torsion catapults are generally much better and more precise. It can throw projectiles of more than 70 kg.
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33 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
I'd rather just have a principate Rome faction, but that's just me
Thats not only you, I would prefer an additional Principate faction too. With distinctive features like the segmentata and the onager for them.
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4 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
Don't forget the Rule of Cool can be one way to decide close disputes. Coin tosses can be avoided then.
You can include two reforms, one from Marius and one from Augustus. The last one introducing the lorica segmentata and the onager. Happy?
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6 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
The onager discussion begins on 690.
Apparently a battle in 86 BC used many lead shot launched from catapults. Its hard to say what machine might have done that but it seems to me that a 1 arm onager would be most up to the task.
I suppose this could have been done with torsion catapults too, but it would seem much more difficult and risky.
The whole article is reviewing the claims of Rihll and is concluding there is little support for it. Personally I am not convinced by the idea that 'glandes' could only have been thrown by Onagers. Honestly I think you are having a confirmation bias in this case, cherry-picking anything supporting its use. While most specialists on the topics expressed the opposing view.
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18 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
Given that we already have content from the late 1st century, Is the early 2nd century really too late, even if its after a reform tech which would be accessed late in the game?
As far as I remember, people were still objecting the idea to go beyond the Punic Wars for the Romans, notably @Thorfinn the Shallow Minded
So I doubt they would like to mix the Principate period into the current Roman civ.
23 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:I understand that the early roman empire was fairly peaceful, so maybe that could explain the lack of records of their use.
I suppose you are thinking of the Pax Romana concept. Be careful do not confuse this idea with peacefulness. Pax Romana means a period without civil wars and without invasions within the Roman Empire. During the Pax Romana, Rome had multiple wars and invaded multiple people. Including Britons, Germans, Dacians, Parthians, Jews etc.
The lack of records is simply due to the lack of surviving material. Most of the material from the classical period survived because medieval monks trained themselves with ancient authors, to learn Latin and Greek.
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1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
However some sources say they may have been used as early as 300 bc.
The earliest accounts are Ammianus Marcellinus (4th century AD) and Vegetius (end of 4th c. and beginning of the 5th c.).
According to E. W. Marsden: "To sum up the situation in the first three imperial centuries, the Roman army reached very high standards in artillery equipment and organization. In particular, after the introduction of the arrow-shooting ballista in its various forms at the beginning of the second century, and while the stone-throwing ballista remained in service, every Roman legion possessed substantial batteries o f the most powerful artillery produced in the ancient world. There is very little direct evidence for the third century. But the introduction of the onager into general service, which may have occurred in the second century, and of the non-torsion arcuballista, both machines being of relatively simple construction, suggests a shortage of good artificers."
The hypothesis is that Vegetius is using a lost text of Publius Tarrutienus (2nd century AD). There is also in a fragmentary text by Apollodorus of Damascus a mention of a one-armed machine and a variant of it incorporated to a battering ram. Furthermore, Apollodorus of Damascus was an engineer close to Trajan.
Previously, Philo of Byzantium, who lived most of his life in Egypt, under the Ptolemies around 220 BC, mentioned one-armed devices in the list of machines that could be used by the defenders against besieging platforms. No description survived.
1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:Would it be reasonable for the romans to access Onagers after researching a military reform tech?
I would say there is no evidence for its usage during the Roman republic and if we decide that Philo of Byzantium indeed mentioned onagers, then the Greeks were the first to use them.
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27 minutes ago, alre said:
but they all look pretty much the same
They are the same. It is always the same faces.
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On 14/08/2023 at 1:42 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
Above: Vercingetorix
Vercingetorix died before reaching his 40s.
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On 24/10/2018 at 11:17 AM, Sundiata said:
I would really love me some Etruscans in 0AD... It's true that they peaked just before 500BC, but they lasted as an important power into the 3rd century BC, the last Etruscan cities being annexed by Rome around 100 BC. They were full on Iron Age, not Bronze Age, and belong in Vanilla, in my opinion.
The Chimera of Arezzo, one of the finest artefacts of the ancient world, Etruscan bronze (c. 400 BC):
I've been collecting some visual refs for the Etruscans for a while, so I thought I'd also share what I have so far (mainly architecture and some frescoes):
The Etruscan city of Vulci:
Etruscan city of Marzabotto
Etruscan gate to the city of Volterra, still standing today!
Acropolis of Vetulonia
Poggio Civitate (Murlo), seems perfect for the Etruscan Civic Center:
Earlier periods:
Etruscan temples,
temple of Veii
More temples:
Miscellaneous:
Etruscan Tombs:
Frescoes
By the way, two of the pictures of tombs are from the 3rd century BC it seems
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26 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
Can you think of a strong 4th hero from the extended list? I'm trying to give each civ at least 4 to choose from.
- ¿Puedes pensar en un cuarto héroe fuerte de la lista extendida? Estoy tratando de darle a cada civilización al menos 4 para elegir.
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Official twitter of RTR: Rome Imperium Surrectum
Official facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/rtr.imperium.surrectum
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In French, but there are some useful info:
- Yayoi have used extensively the sling.
- Yayoi did used the shield and the bow.
- Yayoi people were divided in small chiefdoms, often fighting against each other.
- The horse was introduced lately and was not used for warfare until the 4th century AD.
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16 hours ago, vajei said:
But we were not a civilization, because those civilizations that followed their vile lusts, expelled us and murdered us.
Refrain from such comments.
16 hours ago, vajei said:The claim that it used to be like this is not so relevant, because it is nice to stick to history, but where it interferes with the game it is clearly not the main thing.
This is a game in which you can kill and destroy other people, and the thing bothering you is seeing the belly of a woman?
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I think that a Palaestra or a Gymnasion would be more suitable.
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Map editor, the stupid questions...
in Scenario Design/Map making
Posted
Due to historical and archaeological evidence, the rotary mill has been removed for the Gauls and Britons.