ffm2

I agree on both. On resources used. I made 2 radar charts for the game I mentioned challenge-to-reach-100-pop in which Decger came out as a very good result. One can see that at min. 5 eco of resources used Decger has the highest value. In the chart that uses gathered res. Effervescent comes out on top (and Decger is only #3 although he later in the game sets this eco record of my data of 2150 games, better described in the link). Also pop here is unitsTrained, thats why not more players are at population maximum.

I made this radar chart for fun and wanted to share it. Left is a early state of the game and right a late state. E.g. at the top one can see who had the best eco score at min. 5 and where it progressed at min 14. Just some weak opinions/ideas I'd also like to share: The eco score are just the summed up gathered res.. I think one should also account and penalize a player having unused res. The graphs currently in the game e.g. for military score undersell the early game. A like we have 2 players, one does a well performed rush the other booms and gets into the game late. The booming one gets more credit than the other. In this diagram it's normalized for the player with the highest score. On local ratings: I read a bit into it and think of it a bit hard to understand. On the other side the results are also weird when looking at replay-pallas . The first idea for improvement that comes to my mind is to set a threshold for required of number of matches until it starts to show the results. #1 has 1 match, ValihrAnt is #79 and glancing over the list at any level raises doubts. I don't want to throw some shade so I wont mention (IMO) over rated players. A lot players other players seem to value it and use it for their pairing so there might be something I miss.

I've been checking my local games for the players that reached a pop of 200 as fastest. The total number of players evaluated (incl. multiples) is 3435 and of that only 2150 reached 200 pop in the whole game so got further processed. These include weird settings like medium resources, maps with treasures, and proGUI users. But the top happen to be mainland on low resources. The only check is that cheats are turned off. The metadata.json only stores data every 30 s. These were selected from natural games. To make it in this list the player wants to boom himself and not be attacked. In the bar diagram one sees the civs of these top 68 players. To make it in the data you needed to have 200 pop in under 13 min.. Pers is occurring the most. I see a reason in this that pers is strongest in the late game, so the player himself it more incentivized to boom. Kush did not make it in this list. I play/spec games with random civs for 8 players regularly. The 3 fastest were Decger (two times) and Havran that made 200 pop until 11:30 (so somewhere between 11:00 and 11:30). Of the top 3 one was with a old community mod, so I cant replay it. One had 3 berry patches (Havrans). And one where Decger played rome with only one berry patch between his mines and only some extra sheep with the normal a26 version. This game seems like a particular good example for a good boom. In my top 68 games only 2 players had rome. Note that it does not mean that this is the best way to play the game in general at all. But a player occasional gets to play the pocket in a game where sometimes it makes the most sense to boom. So being able to boom is at least one quality a good player should have and display some times. Regarding this challenge 100 pop is reached in this game about min 7:00, but for the units on the map: I'm not going to count it manual in the replay at 0.1x speed and Decger made 63 woman at that time. If you would like to add it to this challenge subtracting the extra ~13 woman, go ahead. https://replay-pallas.wildfiregames.ovh/Replays/ReplayDetails/78531EF91F850AD7

I think it gets a key press and a release signal. Navigating the map with wasd would be very laggy if it were by interval signals in the scope of appearing text.

On this note I'd like to add to the metadata.json: -decrease the sequence interval from 30s to 10s (if the resulting size is accaptable) -add a counter for trainer idle times (e.g. you have your barrack and cc idle for 1 s the counter adds 2 s) Edit: Better a counter for each type. For stables and corrals it's not so crucial if they stay idle (But still 2 idle baracks increase the counter by 2 each second).

Indeed. I just held the U key down in one player in this figure. So one can imagine with a bit of lag for this to pile up fast. This is new to me, but I had a break of 4 years. Maybe I did it wrong back then or it is new behavior. Thanks

That's a teleport. Insane. This variety from 80 to 10 also speak against a fixed multiplier per special hardwarde. Maybe unnecessary commands like this should not be send over the network / recorded at all?

For the record of this thread again: The easiest way is this ungarrision command at the start. Different groups gets ungarrisioned at the same time in different directions. This does not happen when the way to desired resources don't get shorter by teleporting through the cc. cmd 2 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[150],"x":1057.7218627929688,"z":831.8082275390625,"data":{"command":"gather","resourceType":{"generic":"food","specific":"meat"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/fauna_chicken","target":175},"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 2 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"units/athen/cavalry_javelineer_b","owner":2,"garrisonHolders":[150]} cmd 2 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[150],"x":1083.4781494140625,"z":833.4364624023438,"data":{"command":"gather","resourceType":{"generic":"food","specific":"fruit"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/fruit/berry_01","target":170},"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 2 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"template_unit_support_female_citizen","owner":2,"garrisonHolders":[150]} cmd 2 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[150],"x":1083.5645141601562,"z":827.9652099609375,"data":{"command":"gather","resourceType":{"specific":"tree"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/tree/bush_temperate","target":5864},"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 2 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"units/athen/infantry_spearman_b","owner":2,"garrisonHolders":[150]} cmd 2 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[150],"x":1083.5645141601562,"z":827.9652099609375,"data":{"command":"gather","resourceType":{"specific":"tree"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/tree/bush_temperate","target":5864},"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 2 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"units/athen/infantry_slinger_b","owner":2,"garrisonHolders":[150]} Another easy way to identify proGUI is automated tributes distributed to allies given the user has much and the ally little. Notice this tributes are some numbers different than 100 or 500. cmd 2 {"type":"tribute","player":3,"amounts":{"food":101}}

Are you aware QuickStart is a mod on it own? It is a mod too as I read here: I also know, I should try it some time and then I can benefit of it too. It's just 7 resources at the start. Whats the big deal etc.

You are just gaslighting at this point. Here is the replay file and some analysis. On turn 15 player 6 (Atrik) set 3 rallypoints and unloaded 3 separate groups (typical for proGUI/quickstart): turn 15 200 cmd 6 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[396],"x":981.6212158203125,"z":304.53472900390625,"data":{"command":"gather","resourceType":{"generic":"food","specific":"meat"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/fauna_chicken","target":421},"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 6 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"units/gaul/cavalry_javelineer_b","owner":6,"garrisonHolders":[396]} cmd 6 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[396],"x":917.7904052734375,"z":340.63238525390625,"data":{"command":"gather","resourceType":{"generic":"food","specific":"fruit"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/fruit/berry_01","target":414},"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 6 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"template_unit_support_female_citizen","owner":6,"garrisonHolders":[396]} cmd 6 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[396],"x":974.557861328125,"z":300.42596435546875,"data":{"command":"gather","resourceType":{"specific":"tree"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/tree/bush_temperate","target":5897},"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 6 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"units/gaul/infantry_spearman_b","owner":6,"garrisonHolders":[396]} cmd 6 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[396],"x":974.557861328125,"z":300.42596435546875,"data":{"command":"gather","resourceType":{"specific":"tree"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/tree/bush_temperate","target":5897},"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 6 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"units/gaul/infantry_javelineer_b","owner":6,"garrisonHolders":[396]} cmd 8 {"type":"walk","entities":[516],"x":921.650146484375,"z":964.2492065429688,"queued":false,"pushFront":false} end In the attached Figure one can see some other huge spikes. E.g. form real_tabasco_sauce at turn 4346 which can be explained by normal gameplay. Its unload all, the same entity. Typical for teleporting through a building. It would not benefit the user to do it more than once in that turn, especially here with 0 entities inside. turn 4346 200 cmd 6 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[7332],"x":1002,"z":298,"target":411,"data":{"command":"gather","sound":false,"resourceType":{"generic":"metal","specific":"ore"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/ore/temperate_01","target":411},"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 5 {"type":"leave-turret","entities":[]} cmd 5 {"type":"unload-all","garrisonHolders":[10125]} cmd 5 {"type":"leave-turret","entities":[]} cmd 5 {"type":"unload-all","garrisonHolders":[10125]} cmd 5 {"type":"leave-turret","entities":[]} ... Do you still claim not to use proGUI in the games of chrstgtr? Do you twist it that way, this was actually not proGUI but quickstart? chrst_gtr_host_atrik_progui_2024-10-19_0002.zip

Could you tell me how? Atm. I only see the way with alt+right_click in combination with extreme lag in a usual game.

No, it's not even a bin but a regular line graph with each turn. Could be a bin later with adjustable width. Here's not just every command plottet, but only the attack commands with queue off. This script gives atm. 4 graphs, all commands, attack without queue, attack with queue and stop. It's interesting because some players use attack with queue quite often (very good do it rarely) and some don't use the stop command (or H key) for fast attacking of the nearest unit. Also once one is suspicious one can and should look in the commands.txt and search for "turn X". Ungarrision / teleporting is indeed another action in which a user can have a irregular high command count.

In a very enduring and extreme way. This script is very young, although I checked games of good players and haven't seen it this extreme. There's also hardware that send multiple commands with very few delay on one click, but that would not explain the change of targets. It could also be some way to play the game other players don't know. With this kind of lag @borg- or @borg_ must be very frustrated and remember this. In the team games that I checked one can see lag a bit that multiple people have the chance to cramp in a lot of commands in one turn.

I've been playing with the script a bit more. Some user recomended me to check a suspicious game between borg_ and stockfish. Here we see the attack commands (not queued). Stockfish has a time between turn 5300 and 5400 where he reaches over 20 commands in a turn multiple time while borg_ never gets over 4. Looking at these commands in the file one sees: turn 5325 200 cmd 1 {"type":"leave-turret","entities":[]} cmd 1 {"type":"unload-all","garrisonHolders":[150,2374,2740,2883,2923,3057,3140,3229,3351]} cmd 1 {"type":"leave-turret","entities":[]} cmd 1 {"type":"unload-all","garrisonHolders":[150,2374,2740,2883,2923,3057,3140,3229,3351]} cmd 1 {"type":"leave-turret","entities":[]} cmd 1 {"type":"unload-all","garrisonHolders":[150,2374,2740,2883,2923,3057,3140,3229,3351]} cmd 1 {"type":"leave-turret","entities":[]} cmd 1 {"type":"unload-all","garrisonHolders":[150,2374,2740,2883,2923,3057,3140,3229,3351]} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2472,2483,2533,2701,2732,2735,2749,2781,2790,2806,2815,2825,2826,2846,2847,2848,2849,2851,2852,2853,2864,2872,2873,2874,2875,2876,2889,2896,2897,2912,2947,2960,2971,2973,2975,2977,2985,2995,2997,3022,3029,3030,3031,3032,3034,3035,3036,3040,3042,3055,3068,3069,3071,3083,3084,3085,3088,3100,3105,3120,3122,3123,3134,3145,3160,3171,3181,3193,3200,3209,3214,3223,3224,3226,3227,3245,3247,3254,3281,3287,3292,3294,3308,3309,3311,3313,3314,3316,3329,3330,3331,3346,3347,3348,3360,3361,3363,3365,3366,3367,3373,3376,3379,3390,3391,3392,3393,3421,3422,3425,3429,3431,3435,3440,3444,3445,3451,3467,3468,3469,3471,3509],"target":2963,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2472],"target":2963,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2483],"target":2963,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2533],"target":2963,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2701],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2732],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2735],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2749],"target":2446,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2781],"target":3050,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2790],"target":3050,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2806],"target":3050,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2815],"target":3050,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2825],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2826],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2846],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2847],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2848],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2849],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2851],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2852],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2853],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2864],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2872],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2873],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2874],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2875],"target":3050,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2876],"target":3050,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2889],"target":2446,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2896],"target":2446,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2897],"target":2446,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2912],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2947],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2960],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2971],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2973],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2975],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2977],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2985],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2995],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2997],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3022],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3029],"target":2963,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3030],"x":535.4337768554688,"z":222.9183349609375,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3031],"x":535.2202758789062,"z":222.64129638671875,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3032],"x":535.2202758789062,"z":222.64129638671875,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3034],"x":535.2202758789062,"z":222.64129638671875,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3035],"x":535.2202758789062,"z":222.64129638671875,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3036],"x":535.2202758789062,"z":222.64129638671875,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3040],"x":535.3624267578125,"z":222.36502075195312,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3042],"x":535.3624267578125,"z":222.36502075195312,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3055],"target":3015,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3068],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3069],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3071],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3083],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3084],"target":2446,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3085],"target":3050,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3088],"target":3183,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3100],"target":3183,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3105],"target":2385,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3120],"target":2545,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3122],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3123],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3134],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3145],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3160],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3171],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3181],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3193],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} end So stockfish gives each unit there a individual command. Not as a group. Each command he would need to select the unit and select the target if I'm not mistaken. And the first 3 attack the same target. He'd rather select 3 units individually and attack one target instead of selecting them to a group. The game is from: https://replay-pallas.wildfiregames.ovh/Replays/ReplayDetails/9E145F4901E161F4 load_replay.py

I made some script to load game data in to python to plot it as I'm more familiar with python for plotting and analysis. Also it's much nicer to view all the variables in a variable explorer like the one from spyder. Commands per seconds or turn (0.2 s) have the disadvantage that during lag (or later in the game) a player is able to do a lot of commands in one turn. Here is me doing 10 commands in one turn: turn 5455 200 cmd 2 {"type":"walk","entities":[10472,7963,8997,10619,11200,10735,9713,8881,10288,10455,10152,11198,6126,10820,9851,9287,10734,10641,10289,8975,9333,9008,9220,9281,9355,9356,9451,9453,9471,9561,9562,11199,9706,9712,9734,9838,9852,10620,10745,9926,10016,10151,10153,10575,10576,10291,10454,10574,10703,10775,10819,10830],"x":368.4579772949219,"z":944.2227783203125,"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 2 {"type":"walk","entities":[10472,7963,8997,10619,11200,10735,9713,8881,10288,10455,10152,11198,6126,10820,9851,9287,10734,10641,10289,8975,9333,9008,9220,9281,9355,9356,9451,9453,9471,9561,9562,11199,9706,9712,9734,9838,9852,10620,10745,9926,10016,10151,10153,10575,10576,10291,10454,10574,10703,10775,10819,10830],"x":374.57586669921875,"z":970.2582397460938,"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[10472,7963,8997,10619,11200,10735,9713,8881,10288,10455,10152,11198,6126,10820,9851,9287,10734,10641,10289,8975,9333,9008,9220,9281,9355,9356,9451,9453,9471,9561,9562,11199,9706,9712,9734,9838,9852,10620,10745,9926,10016,10151,10153,10575,10576,10291,10454,10574,10703,10775,10819,10830],"target":6368,"allowCapture":true,"queued":true,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 6 {"type":"walk","entities":[11159,10853,10854,10963,10965],"x":233.2589111328125,"z":647.6427001953125,"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 6 {"type":"walk","entities":[11159,10853,10854,10963,10965],"x":289.00238037109375,"z":808.5845336914062,"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 6 {"type":"walk","entities":[11159,10853,10854,10963,10965],"x":289.2769470214844,"z":809.2060546875,"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 6 {"type":"walk","entities":[11159,10853,10854,10963,10965],"x":289.27691650390625,"z":809.2093505859375,"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 6 {"type":"walk","entities":[7228,7882,7883,8114,8943,11225,11230],"x":309.6015625,"z":795.3712158203125,"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 6 {"type":"walk","entities":[7228,7882,7883,8114,8943,11225,11230],"x":309.6015625,"z":795.3712158203125,"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 6 {"type":"walk","entities":[7228,7882,7883,8114,8943,11225,11230],"x":309.6001281738281,"z":795.1552734375,"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 6 {"type":"walk","entities":[7228,7882,7883,8114,8943,11225,11230],"x":297.7958984375,"z":817.514892578125,"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 6 {"type":"walk","entities":[7228,7882,7883,8114,8943,11225,11230],"x":297.3807067871094,"z":812.8035278320312,"queued":false,"pushFront":false} cmd 6 {"type":"walk","entities":[7228,7882,7883,8114,8943,11225,11230],"x":297.3807067871094,"z":812.8035278320312,"queued":false,"pushFront":false} end Notice player 6 (me) just does actually do 2 commands with 2 unit groups as these walks are not queued. If your familiar with python / matplotlib go ahead and tinker with the script and analyze some games.

Also on the topic of idle time of barracks (or any building). I was just watching the video shared by @real_tabasco_sauce on proGUI, the day after (which indeed is very much on point of this topic). There is a overlay that has a nice counter that runs when buildings are idle.

It seems mod.io also handle mods more restrictive because of abuse. This rule would be a problem as I see it atm. New rules can also come any day. This is not a exclusive option and I think a good change. Players could also be made aware of mods they don't know and check them out because of the popularity. Also in the team set up one could put one proGUI user in each team to balance it. Some mods are big and if the host does not use them he should not download them. This seems a good additional approach to #2. I would add to this some appearing option for the host "ffm tries to enter your game with ffm_4k. Description: 'This mod increases the font by 2 sizes. Better suited for high res displays.' Add the key XX to your keyring?" And if the host gets tired of this mod he can remove this key. This would of course not prevent cheating and be a hurdle for new modders but necessary as proGUI users show no awareness at all that it is cheating. It's verbosely described in proGUI, the day after and here by RangerK yet again. If a proGUI user then enforces these features another way, at least they are made aware that they cheat.

All parties in the know = not cheating Using it secretly = cheating Is it that complicated? The current state of the multiplayer lobby just shows that this is not the case. Players just download proGui through mod.io and just use it. Even Atrik just assumes everyone knows by now that he is using it. One day Chrstgtr tells him he should not do it in his games, next game he does it again. When I or RangerK return to this game after a break and join a 4vs4 game no ProGUI user tell them that he automates unit commands and unit production beyond human capabilities. Instead some even tell it is just a GUI. Please report players cheating by using mods or other means. Without reports there is little we can do. If some official sign were there, like a mod ban Atrik for a day or at least say that -proGUI's autotrainer -proGUI's quickstart is considered officially as a cheat in regular use (not announced). But we have this situation where the proGUI users just use it like great mods like autociv and feldmap. And then users tell in lengthy discussions about how it is ok and not a cheat. Can we have a adult jumping in saying: -The autotrainer of vanilla is intended to work that way (turning of if there's no res., don't automate adjusted batches), for this alpha -Don't give units commands via makros / mods etc. If you like the vertical panel or what that's ok for me. Maybe split it up in 3 mods and have one of them signed or accepted by the community. One can automate everything away, but then it is a different game. Afaik DotA focused their game to play just playing the hero of Warcraft 3. That's ok. But you can't automate things away and play with the others that still do another part of the game in a way they never can reach you. People will still cheat, but we can end this "is considered by some" discussion. Even if the advantage were small or however it is downplayed. Or start a poll before or something.

Don't be confused because some consider it not cheating. It is very clear cheating. It disables game penalties: In game auto-batching gets disabled when the player don't have the resources. It's not on pause (like proGUI) because the programmers lack the capability to program it otherwise, it is a draw back to use this automated way. Do that in the dedicated place, hand in the patches and wait for the next alpha. The topic here is cheating. You can discuss new features for future versions else where. You disable penalties for yourself while playing with players that have these enabled in their game. I had games recently, after the game I get mocked "lol, ffm only 60 kills". I check the replay and see the opponent was a proGUI user. Other games I get a clear win with a ally over decent players, check the replay and see my ally uses proGUI. Also I happen to play in rounds with known cheaters, because the host tolerates it and the better players are already there. The motivation for the cheaters I assume is because they can join rounds of better players and compete with them. The easiest way to identify cheating with proGUI is the quickstart part. It sends 7 commands in one turn, at about turn 12. cmd 6 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[400],"x":200.843017578125,"z":647.5227661132812,"data":{"command":"gather","resourceType":{"generic":"food","specific":"fruit"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/fruit/berry_01","target":419},"queued":false} cmd 6 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"template_unit_support_female_citizen","owner":6,"garrisonHolders":[400]} cmd 6 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[400],"x":208.0706787109375,"z":558.1127319335938,"data":{"command":"gather","resourceType":{"generic":"wood","specific":"tree"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/tree/oak_hungarian","target":411},"queued":false} cmd 6 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"units/rome/infantry_swordsman_b","owner":6,"garrisonHolders":[400]} cmd 6 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"units/rome/infantry_javelineer_b","owner":6,"garrisonHolders":[400]} cmd 6 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[400],"x":168.57574462890625,"z":588.1920776367188,"data":{"command":"gather","resourceType":{"generic":"food","specific":"meat"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/fauna_chicken","target":425},"queued":false} cmd 6 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"units/rome/cavalry_spearman_b","owner":6,"garrisonHolders":[400]} A mod that warn users in game about a amount of commands that is beyond the best player (plus a threshold) could be a idea. But I don't know where to start with it at the moment. Hardening the game against abuse is one front to fight. But this is absolutely ridiculous to defend and pretend "is it really a cheat if a 1200 player don't win 10 out of 10 vs a 1800 elo player", "it's just a few commands at the start". It's another thing that the cheats are so easy available, widely used and pretended it wouldn't be a cheat.

Couldn't find it in a reasonable time. It's maybe feasable, maybe hard with extra code. I don't see the benefit with all subtypes like pikemen, slingers of each civ. You have to dig through the code, that's why I've written my procedure to grep above.

It's number of houses, barracks, fields and civilizations and has nothing to do with the second line. In the second line are only the gather rates (incl. way) lined under and attached debugging info for me. The last % is the gather rate in relation to the maximum of 5.8. The replay file is written instantly. When spectating a live game I regularly use it to check out the replay to see which player uses quickstart, which some players use in even in rated 1v1s. I think it would be a great analysis tool, like a chess engine (although this wouldn't cover all strategies). But chess engines are also used for cheating. So I'd rather have no analysis and no more added cheating than more analysis incl. more cheats.

I messed with autociv stats too. I calculated extra statistics for the currently selected player. Here is the actual gather rate for wood shown incl. the way to the storehouse and collisions. 4 woman + 4 inf have 4*0.7 + 4* 0.75 = 5.8 wood gather rate at 100% set. No upgrades. I made some snapshots to show how the actual gather rate drops with longer distance. Tbh I expected it to be worse. With this value I wanted to make a mod with recommendations on the game play as spectator or in the replay. Like now would be the time for the ax upgrade. But now I am reluctant to share. A) Because of the bad state of abuse of cheats in the community. I don't want to add fuel to the fire. Some would just automate the upgrade. B) It's still a buggy sketch, and because of A i don't know if I continue this. It's not too hard to do if someone wants to, but still a bit more than getting another value from the current statistics. The results are quite interesting though. Also I don't know if it's even intended to know the game so well.

/gui/session/objectives/autociv_statsOverlay.js gets states from /simulation/components/GuiInterface~autociv.js you need to add something like "unitsLost": cmpPlayerStatisticsTracker?.enemyUnitsKilled.total ?? 0, to ~line 210 except you now don't want enemyUnitsKilled.total but something like unitsLost. What does cmpPlayerStatisticsTracker offer next to enemyUnitsKilled? rg enemyUnitsKilled and find public/simulation/components/StatisticsTracker.js look and find this.unitsLost = {}; this.enemyUnitsKilled = {}; so your gues of the name was right. Just add it to /simulation/components/GuiInterface~autociv.js too. I didn't test it actually but thats the way I gues. Hard for me too to grep the right value.

"What do you mean there's a wrong-way driver on the highway? There's dozens of them!!" Here is one information that 3 people try to convey to you over month, yet you fail to understand it or want to justify your cheating to hang on to your mod in regular games: "rush is how he exploit cheat" - Breakfastburrito_007 @Dunedan I report Artik_III for repeated violation of terms of use and he shows no effort to stop in the future: 8. Not to undermine the intended gameplay or purposefully gain unfair advantages in multiplayer matches (for example cheating, using exploits or bugs). Here is a replay if there is any doubt and here is the expressed wish that proGUI or quickstart should not be used by chrstgtr: 2024-10-13_0018.zip

This is not the first cheat mod and wont be the last, here's just my opinion on this tedious discussion. So everyone has to draw his line where cheats begin on about this spectrum: -Map revealed -Chat revealed -Let ranged units automatically back up if mellee come too near, make them follow if melee goes away (cav in a ~22 were like this and broke game mechanics) -Automatic aim at most wounded units -Army shoots the exact number of projectiles at one unit necessary to kill it. -Automatic dodge arrows -Automatic wounded units run to next temple -Automatic deleting structures at 55% capture rate -Automatic set houses according to resources and demand -Automatic queue units according to resources -Automatic start with instant command to move women to berry's, men to wood, cavalry to chicken with perfectly executed cc-teleport (Quickstart mod) -Make more contrast for better visibility -Disable fog for better view -Increase zoom.max = 500.0 (this should be standard anyway btw.) There has already been cheaters/modders that enabled 1. and 2.. Most optimize their settings for the better in some way. This has gone way too far for me. I would rather have a complete vanilla setting and disable all mods for all players than this state. To me proGUI is a clear cheat and I know a lot (clear majority) that also consider it a cheat. You set your line maybe else where, where cheats begin, but that's not up for the individual player to decide. Atrik at least has some fairness sense that map revealed is a cheat. If I get raided by Atrik get demotivated because he doesn't have to watch his base and can focus only this raid. Usually you can stick arount, make his units waste time and be sure the player only has that much APM. But he doesnt have to spread that amount of APM across a bigger map. He plays a different game than me. I don't accept this as a loss at a fair game. a) is not an option. If it were next comes the map revealed mod (or one of the other suggested cheats above) and we all do that. b) same argument. Some have map revealed. Not a sane option. Quickstart is also a cheat and AFAIK incorporated in proGUI. It could at least emulate a good player. But it sends does all these commands instantly. Ungarrision from the cc in 3 different directions with different units instantly is just silly. chrstgtr is a opponent of proGUI yet Artik and knight002 used at least quickstart in a game hosted by chrstgtr. The wishes of other players do not get respected. It's clear that many users dislike the use of these mods. It does not get stated each host. But chrstgtr made it clear here and Atrik knows it. I just saw another rated 1v1 with quickstart (at least) enabled for one player with no anouncement. If quickstart were no cheat, why doesn't the game just start a few seconds later with the woman already gathering berrys etc.. It is not intended that way and playing it down won't convince me. On Grautvornix: Why isn't this a real competition? Because there's no money involved? People gather together and want to play a game with even odds and give it some effort. Good performances earn recognition of other players and bad performances gets .. lets say reactions too. People care and the game is in a good state so that one can put in some effort and it's fun to rise in the leaderboard and also optimize ones skill regardless of how useful this skill might be. It's also annoying to me that this gets cited like a dogma to automate everything: "Repetition - If you find yourself doing the same action over and over without thought, then we need to either eliminate or automate such an action. Linear repetitious procedures are meaningless and boring." If you take it that serious over every other argument, next time you close the game, leave it closed. Don't open 0ad again. It's a really sad state and critics get shouted at like in the attached snippet. I don't know what to tell you Atrik what hasn't been better formulated by others already better. It's either a lost cause or needs time for you to reflect on the matter.