Prodigal Son

I think this replaced the ability to carry cavalry for (some sizes of?) Persian ships when the trait got shared, so that other civs don't get some annoying "you can't transport cavalry" message. Not sure how I feel about it, training horses out of a ship is stranger than training marines though. A workaround could be horses needing two transport slots for all other civs, while 1 for persians due to their skill in transporting horses. This could apply to other big units, with bolt throwers needing 2 as well, elephants/rams/stonethrowers needing 4 and siege towers needing 8 or 10 if transportable at all.

Cretans, Aetolians and Illyrians could work as pirates as well. And, yes, Iberians desperately need some way of access to arrow ships and bigger transport capacity.

It currently works only for 1v1 games and even then not always, the "disconnect at game's end" bug won't allow the result to count in the leaderboard.

They also used celtic mercenaries, not just allies, certainly including cavalry as well.

Do you mean they did or didn't serve the Greek City-states? In any case, Thessaly is a mostly lowland a region between southern Greece and Macedon, famous for it's agriculture and big plains (by Greek standards at least) and in antiquity for it's cavalry. I've seen Thessalian horsemen depicted both as skirmishers and heavy cavalry, and both should probably be true. They also did fight on the sides of various city-states before becoming Macedonian subjects, and even joined the city-states against Macedon at least once after Alexander's death. Many of them migrated eastwards and served as horsemen in the Successor armies. Besides that, it was not uncommon to see Thessalian cities fight against each other or join two opposing sides of a war, not unlike the more famous southern states.

Macedonians used many units of different native and allied/vassal/mercenary cavalry. However most of them were either using javelins or lances (sometimes even shorter sarissas) as their main weapon, so gameplay - wise it would be kinda pointless to represent all of them.

Makes sense I guess:).

I've also listened to some other tips: - Stuck workers/units cause a lot of pathfinder lag (works, have reduced lag by searching and moving a stuck unit). - People with slow computers or connections cause lag (multiplayer, should be true). - Long distances between player locations, like one being in Canada and one in Europe, might cause lag (multiplayer, no clue if true). - Slower game speed (like x 0.75) reduces lag (no clue if true). For me graphic settings made no real difference on lag and I have a 2008 computer with 4GB ram (I guess this helps a lot) and an old Nvidia 9600GT graphic card.

As the title says. I believe it would be useful for discussion, guides etc.

Could work, but could also re-encourage the dominance of ranged units. A bonus damage nerf while re-adding a bonus for any unit could work better imo.

Slightly out of topic, but is some nerf for garrisoned ships planned? Their firepower is extremely powerful currently, imo they shouldn't be that much more powerful than ungarrisoned ones. Also naval warfare overall. As the Iberians I had no chance to land on a fortified, protected by navy, island, no overpowered garrisoned arrowships for them. So if those don't get nerfed, Iberians will need one as well. They also need a ship with bigger transport capacity anyway. Besides that, garrisoned buildings are the same way of overpowered as well. Less of a trouble as they are immobile, but still the most successful tactic (and hard to beat as many civs) seems to be forward building garrisoned forts. The only other viable (and overpowered as well) tactic is mass ranged units, but this is going to be fixed I believe for the next alpha. If you look at AOE/AOM garrisons add many times less firepower, and for a good reason.

Since most factions could use more upgrades/techs/reforms, since historical changes are the most interesting way to introduce them in game, and as it seems like Romans get Marian reforms, Seleucids get their own (although I'd prefer those slightly different), Athens gets Iphicratian Reforms (I've also thought of better ways for this after some reading), Sparta could get pike phalanx/land reforms, Persians could get Kardakes etc, I can't see why we can't have Macedonians initially represent Alexander's army and then have reforms for them as well. Alexander's lifespan was small, so this could be restrictive compared to most factions. I'm in favor of expanding on such ideas for all factions. There are many possibilities around it for new gameplay and better historical representation. I certainly get that a mix of easier balancing, personal choices and available time restrictions can work against it though.

Yeah while it is interesting to get troops from different sources other than training, this way is specially tricky to balance and for me it can't balance at all. Even if you have something like that exactly the same way/with the same power for all factions (like the AOM titans), you have timing and irreversibility thrown in besides cost and power.

I believe it's for gameplay purposes, preventing you to have your entire army protected unless you build walls. Towers, forts and city centers act as defensive points, while only large walled cities can host an entire large army, so it makes some real sense as well. Fight for your homes (in your homes) is more of an "everything's lost" scenario anyway, not an advisable strategy.

We've discussed this in the past as well. Imo one-time major power boost is not a good idea. It can make for too much strength or loss of a one time chance depending on timing, external circumstances (other player actions) and player skill. See the titans on AOM, or the unit shipments in AOE3 for what I mean. An unlock tech and a build limit should work better.

Sure:) Some quick ones: Siege of Megara, 266BC. Antigonos Gonatas' elephants routed by flaming pigs (when researching silly rome total war units teaches history:p). I remember he also had elephants earlier against Pyrrhus, he lost some of them to him in a mountain pass battle, while he captured some of Pyrrhus elephants in return after his death in the Siege of Argos.Ptolemy Keraunos, as king of Macedon, was killed in battle with the Galatians in 279BC while riding his elephant. It's possible that he was the one who gave some of his elephants to Pyrrhus, while Antigonus Gonatas got the rest of them by succeeding him on the Macedonian Throne.If we add early Antigonids (Antigonos Monopthalmos, Demetrios Poliorketes) who controlled Macedon or parts of it during the successor wars, the instances of Macedonian war elephants become quite frequent. If we add to that other generals who commanded parts of Alexander's original army while not controlling Macedon (but not being Ptolemaics or Seleucids, just contenders for the Macedonian throne or champions of some contender) such as Perdikas, Eumenes of Kardia and others, it becomes extremely often.Edit: I'm not suggesting Elephants as a regular unit for Macedon, as it's not native to the region anyway. Could become trainable with an import tech, and possibly with a build limit as well. The same could work for the Persians.

Alexander got elephants during his invasion of India, succesors maintained them even after his death and got new ones as well. Even the factions that held Macedonia proper had elephants in their armies, at least in the first 6-7 decades after Alexanders death. Some brought from the east, some from Egypt (when the ptolemies had one of their own princes as king of Macedon for a short while), some captured in battles against Pyrrhus of Epirus. They were used in the fights for the throne of Macedon, against the Galatian invasion and against some Greek city-states. Macedonian army could also get many reforms, including ranged heavy cavalry, thureophoroi, royal peltasts in place of hypaspists, late pikemen with more armor and goes on. I could provide more detail if it's something desired. The Romans used elephants occasionally, mostly allied Numidians (and once Pergamenes), but I don't think they even had them in the core roman army. Sparta should get back it's phalangites, I'd say as a late game reform, they didn't appear until short before it's end as a power. Both they and Athens could also get some Thureophoroi at the late game. On Athens having pikemen I've read several debates, no direct source, I'd say no then, let's not have every Greek/Hellenistic faction have pikes.

Both Seleucids and Ptolemies used military colonies, but it was more common for the Seleucids, who used them not only to make an army of non-natives (something both preferred as dynasties on foreign soil), but also as a much needed means of spreading combat-ready levies over a vast territory.On the other hand, not only the Ptolemies were an economic powerhouse, but the Seleucids as well. They controlled, for most of the dynasty's duration, the majority of the most important ancient trade routes, including the silk road (add to that the fertile Mesopotamia). And while all their fancy units may point to a purely militaristic faction, most of their wars (much like the Ptolemies) were defensive ones or against rebelling provinces. Both dynasties fielded relatively small armies as well, compared to their controlled territory size. So both should be balanced between military/economy, with a slight focus on navy and defenses for the Ptolemies (relied on garrisoned forts/towns and fleets for most of their wars) and on land armies for Seleucids (preferred decisive field battles mostly).I'm not sure how you guys figure out that (all?) Ptolemaic mercenaries where made settlers. Does the author claim this? From my impression on what I've read, they mostly went to gather mercenaries in times of war, which indicates short term service and not settlers. Sure they'd have mercenaries turned settlers (most factions actually did, even Spartans in their late years), but all of them or a vast majority, no.So imo this leaves way for two representations: Seleucids and Ptolemies realistically sharing many traits (like the military settlements) which holds true but makes for less diversity.The direction things are taking now. Seleucid focus on settlers (because they had more of them*), Ptolemaics on mercenaries (because they had more of them). Makes sense without going too far unhistorical (most factions don't get many things they had due to balance reasons anyway) and adds more faction diversity.* If you want to challenge this, try figuring out why the Ptolemies eventually had to train natives for about half of their phalanx to rival the Seleucid one in numbers.

Hi, some nice work there Stico:) However since they don't exactly match something in the game or the exact artstyle, I'm not sure they would fit, or at least not all of them. Someone from the team could know better though.

It could very easily depend on the unit, for more variety. Also, having many champions (which usually are more expensive) also restricts your economy as you have less gatherers, so already each choice has pros and cons. Making them less cost effective as well wouldn't fit in well imo. Neither makes perfect sense historically. Some ancient armies were largely professional or based on cores of elite troops rather than a huge army of militia with a few elites. Some elite units were more cost effective than average troops, scoring victories vs seemlingly impossible odds, while other ones were not and got overwhelmed by lesser units. So the choice should be up to the player instead of almost forcing them to have mostly citizen soldiers and there could also be a variety of cost effectiveness as a balancing/historical flavor factor. Anyway I suggested improved cost effectiveness rather than balanced one for the Briton chariot, to keep it weaker than scythed ones as it should, while worth as a champion at the same time. AOE 2 has some champions weaker but cheaper than normal units and it works.

I can't remember the stats/prices now but it makes sense to me that a heavy scythed chariot should be stronger than a simple one. Could make the Briton one more cost effective to validate it as a champion though. However, as I've said again chariots are a bit strange for me currently. In the game's timeframe they were more of an outdated leftover from older times, and in almost all battles in the era they behaved poorly. I wouldn't have them rank up with new horses and different cart skeleton appearing out of thin air, nor as champion units since they weren't effective enough to justify it. One-rank unit like the spartan skyrites, with high trample damage (second only to elephants) but very easy to run amok would do.

Not bad:) My take on the subject (what could fit on a short hardcore punk song and unfortunately no recording yet): Life After Debt There's nothing but air in your pockets All that you've had, you've lost in a day You look back to days you felt comfort and vanity Indulged in pretension and gratifying ignorance Your culture's erosion Your conscience's a burden The shame that you bear Is avarice and apathy All that you never confront And all that you dream in the dark Never tried to make it stop Never fought but for yourself You're caught in the wake, caught in the wake Never tried to make it stop Now seek saviors in your scourge You're caught in the wake, caught in the wake You've been conservative And now you're buried ever deeper in your @#$% You change your dirty so-called friends By circumstantial needs You speak of devotion To ethics beyond Our humanly worth Excuses and solace While all you need to see is You are the hand that feeds Never tried to make it stop Never fought but for yourself You're caught in the wake, caught in the wake Never tried to make it stop Now seek saviors in your scourge You're caught in the wake, caught in the wake

It won't work this way. Some minor cost/effectiveness imbalance could work as faction bonuses/debonuses, to add historical flavor when applicable, but certainly not on this scale. For example 10% cheaper (than their balanced cost) elephants for the Mauryans, 15% stronger champion cavalry for the Macedonians, or 20% faster trained swordmen for the Romans could work. Something simular is already in game if I'm not mistaken, for example spearmen of the same cost having slightly different stats for different factions.

There are also claims (not sure if there are also facts on this) that there were a larger sub-species of indian elephants used in war, now extinct, even larger than the biggest african elephants. So elephant size and power is a tricky one to balance. Since ptolemaic elephants flead before the seleucid ones anyway, most likely would be (ranked by size): 1) Seleucid/Mauryan Indian Elephants 2) Ptolemaic African Elephants 3) Carthaginian (Forest) African Elephants

I find the current way of building kinda realistic. A barracks or fort would almost always be built near owned lands or new colonies (new civ centers here), not at a random spot in the middle of nowhere. From a gameplay perspective both choices have pros and cons.