Prodigal Son

I'm not saying it's that hard to find:) But the vast majority of people keep playing cluelessly or ask for advice in game. It's their choice being lazy but makes it hard to find a proper match. That's why I would like to have it somewhere directly in front of their eyes to make them remember to check for tips:p.

The econ tutorial is that "challenge" at which you have to build things in time before the next are suggested? Having it at a more obvious position might be a nice start, it's kinda hidden where it is. Edit: Feuner, this part actuall looks pretty good for a general direction, if only it was at a more obvious place as well. I'd say placing a guide link directly on the frontpage, or a bot comment at upon lobby entrance saying "new players go there and check that for help".

Were they mercenaries, not vassal allies?

I think most new players would prefer something more basic, like "mind your dropside distances", "build an early barracks", "check what unit is stronger against the units you face" etc. Like a short-ish compilation of begginer tips.

Yeah that's a good idea:) It could have bits about everything game-related, while guides should be linked to the frontpage of the wiki. Then the wiki could be linked to the frontpage of 0 AD or the main page of the forums. Or perhaps a guides subforum of this is too much trouble.

Hey vmos did we play yesterday:)? I was thinking of making a basic multiplayer guide (since I'm no expert myself), with tips on efficiency, speed, generic build orders etc, also including issues like hosting problems. Thing is, where would it be linked to be obvious/visible to people? I find myself facing new players all they time and giving them tips instead of having a real fight. And pretty often, people who can't really host create a game, wait, none joins and none can explain to them what's the issue, cause the chats aren't linked in same way, and then log off, probably never to return for some of them.

Wait, there's worse than scythetwirler?

Nice:) Will they replace the Bactrians or just an extra champion? Limmited elephants could work for other factions as well, like Rome (maybe after marian reforms at the auxiliary camp?) and Macedon (actually used the quite a lot, if you consider Alexander and Western based Successors like the Antigonids, they probably used more elephants than the Ptolemies and almost certainly the Persians). The Persians could also use some change/buff in the early game, they seem the weaker by far (ranged micro player ability excluded).

Agreed with this. And they definitely were used more by the Persians than the Seleucids that now have them.

Yup port needs to be opened both on rooter and firewall, I forgot that at first. Btw I'm still slacking around the lobby, move there for a match forumers!

For anyone having host issues (people not being able to join etc) for me it didn't work by UPnP, but worked with port forwarding. It also seems like the server has lag issues when people attempt to host more than one game at the same time. It needs work but it's a great step for the game. Already had great fun in two matches so far and multiplayer gameplay is already shaping up nicely:)

Oh yeah, I downloaded alpha 14:p. So who's gonna host games at the lobby? Will some people/team members have that extra ability so it works somehow for sure? Or it will work at times while others not for now?

I'm currently downloading the new alpha and I'd love to join the lobby and start having multiplayer matches. However I remember reading somewhere that you'll still need to do something with the IP to join. Is it just giving your address? Opening some port (if so which one)? Could someone explain?

Congrats and thanks for the hard work:)

It looks nice. Maybe make the teeth advertisment-ish-ly white as well:)

The bushes idea seems the most interesting to me on this. And perhaps Iberians could get some short of better cover or bigger damage bonus when ambushing. Warcraft actually hides night elf, bandit and other units in the night, as long as they remain idle. So implementing a day and night circle could provide an alternative ambush mechanic this way.

If possible programing-wise, it would be nice to have ships land a number of marines for ground operations/raids. Then, unless some of the marines return, the ship can't move again/gets destroyed/gets reduced combat ability. (Inspired by Rome II) Marines could depend on faction. For example greeks could have hoplites without body armor (only helmet/shield and spear or sword) and later on thyreophoroi, Romans could have hastati/princeps, Persians could have archers. A tech could adjust/alter marine type on ships (maybe one melee and one ranged per faction), which besides different traits while landed, could give different combat bonuses to the ship. Another tech could increase the number of marines but slow down the ships. An Athenian tech "Chorigoi" (I thought this was the name but a google search applies it to threatrical play sponsorship, might be something else for ships I can't recall now) could reduce Trireme cost, simulating rich citizens taking the duty to found the cost of a trireme.

Could work this way. I like the idea of Seleucids (or successor in general) founding Civ Centers only with their heroes, it's quite close to reality. Another idea that came to mind is giving all factions a mercenary/auxiliary camp, but limited to 1, which will train all available mercenaries each faction had. Then the Carthaginians (and Ptolemies?) could have the ability to build more mercenary camps to represent their focus. Or Ptolemies could have Greek + Native + Mercenary barracks. Military Settlements could have another weakness instead, since one of their main points was actually to be a form of loyal defenders at the founded spot and they had quite capable military units. Units produced there could be able to work only on farms (the land granted for their services, as this should be their only occupation besides combat). So the player would either have a portion of his farms on newer, less defended/frontline regions, or have to move other units there to work on more resources. Might be a bit confusing though with some citizen soldiers not being able to work on any resource like the rest.

I actually liked the first one better, you could work on that one and slightly change the shield as LordGood suggested.

Those three articles could provide great ideas on improving the successor states' armies both on authenticity and gameplay: SeleucidsMacedonPtolemiesThey have quite a lot of detail on unit types and equipment, overall and periodic strategies, balance between professional, levy and mercenary troops, navies etc and they seem very accurate to me. Edit: I've read them two or three days ago, but some highlights on top of my head and suggestions accordingly (trying not to repeat my suggestions on page 1): Seleucids: Catafracts could be a late game non-champion unit or even better an upgrade of the citizen spear cavalry, as the article suggests that they where an update of the line heavy cavalry while companions/agema remained the elite standing cavalry. Seems valid to me since their numbers at the battle of Magnesia are much larger than those of the royal cavalry.They actually relied more on settlers than the Ptolemies and far less on mercenaries, besides Cretan Archers and Galatians. They could have a Galatian cavalry unit if Ptolemies get an infantry one, for variety. Wikipedia has the Galatian cavalry as the Seleucid cataphracts in Magnesia but that seems wrong in many ways.Macedon: Cavalry declines, phalanx grows bigger (and heavier later on), many new unit types, but mostly relied on mercenaries, besides in times of dire need, to spare the now limited locals who have been drained by constant wars and immigration to the east and Egypt.Could give them the Thracian Black Cloak unit at the Civ Center (makes a nice combo of mercenaries/vassal levies with Thessalians and Agrianians) and move the phalanx only to the barracks, to simulate a mercenary army until "major" war times. This could also make for an early Philip scenario, with only cavalry and light troops before the foundation of the phalanx.Later companions, or "sacred squadron" seem to be a heavy skirmishing cavalry instead of a lancer force, probably to preserve the now small Macedonian nobility. They probably weren't that warlike and brave anymore either, at Pydna they didn't even try to fight, probably preferring to stay as a subdued but ruling class instead of risking death.So the true elite of late Macedon are the royal peltasts/agema a phalanx force able to fight in other roles as well.Thyreophoroi could be added, as well as kestros slingers, a special late slinger unit that could even be made a champion for some variety.All of the above might not be that valid if Macedon in game represents Alexandrian Macedon, but I think it's more interesting to have the faction span a bit of a time period, like it's the case with most other factions.Ptolemies: They relied too much on mercenaries. I know it's a Carthage trait for the game but we could consider something similar for them.Added to that or instead of it they could have two versions of the settler camp, one "Hellenistic Military Colony" with Greek/Macedonian/Thracian/Galatian units and one "Native Military Colony" with Machimoi/Ethiopian/Nubian/Nabatean units. Then the Seleucids could get the Hellenistic one as well with some extra tech for reduced training time to simulate them having more settlers. Likewise, the Ptolemies could get an equivalent tech for the native one (or it could even become a general successor trait with a thracian one for macedonians)Then the ptolemies could train machimoi phalanx on the native and grecomacedonian phalanx on the hellinistic one. Town center could get some hellenistic light troops like thyreophoroi (mercenaries?), citizen levy cavalry etc.They seem to have thorakites/romanized troops as well, and in their very late years even a largish force of roman mercenaries/deserters who also played part in the court matters.Other: Perhaps another way of differentiation could be done with the hero auras. I haven't paid much attention to the ones proposed so far but they could be somewhat faction speciffic.Maybe each hero could have two auras, one factional and one personal.Successor heroes, known for their recklessness and heroic cavalry charges could have something according to that.Roman heroes could have something more generic, buffing all their troops or units in formation.Celtic heroes could buff attack, charge or movement speed of their melee units.Iberian heroes could buff their skirmishers.For something completely different, Greeks could get an ability representing the oracle of Delphi. Offering a (set?) small amount of metal would give a random prediction, either encouraging or demoralizing troops (+/- attack or attack speed) for a period of time. A bigger amount of money could bribe the oracle for an encouraging prediction. Could be at the Temple.The Threatron, and perhaps other cultural buildings for other civs (arena, hippodrome, stadium, druidic temple etc), could get a festival/games/races ability. At some cost, it could provide increased work rate for a while after activated, simulating happeness. Perhaps this could be altered/expanded into autogathering a "culture points" resource, together with temples, wonders and civic centers which could slowly lead to a cultural victory under a special victory condition, instead of just copy-pasting the Age Of Empires wonder mechanic.(Out of place) Besides elephants, chariots should get damage frenzy as well.

Cretan mercenary loyalty wasn't that guaranteed. Around 150bc, Seleucid Cretan mercenaries abused their power when they found themselves in numbers, controlled a puppet king and wrecked havoc in Antioch, firstly oppressing and then butchering the revolting population. I'm not sure about nubian archers, but since nubian spearmen are documented for the Ptolemaics, I can't see why not archers too. At least it's little risky guess, not something out of place.

Some progressive punk metal:

Could work this way yes. However limiting them instead would include a training phase which is quite a must for Spartans. Edit: Also tying them to one per farm (or one per farm + house) would work as a risky/limiting factor for the early game. You'll have the options to: Go for a classic playstyle, without phase I champions.Risking your economy by going full on early farming and abusing your wood production to field the biggest Spartan hoplite force possible.Try to find a balance between the two.

I like him, let's see how he turns out:)