Catapult vs army

[dmzerocold]

Hello , 

is it balance some civilization have long range catapult and some other dont? for me its not balance , what do you think? or maybe i missed something here  

[macemen]

I don't see why would that make the game unbalanced. Those civilizations that don't have catapults have rams. Each civilization has an effective mean to level an enemy base. Some have more advanced siege capabilities than others, just like in history, but this is called differentiation not unbalance.

Edited September 5, 2018 by macemen

[dmzerocold]

Ram is not effective against army , but catapult is. 

maybe im wrong 

[macemen]

I don't see anything wrong with that. Each has different limitations and strengths. The ram is powerful in melee, it can even defeat (or gravely wound) the mighty war elephant, while the catapult has no chance against elephants, or cavalry in general. The ram is also much more manoeuvrable (no pack-unpack) and effective at destroying buildings.

On a side note, the ram is quite powerful against troops also, so much so that there are a lots of discussions whether it's too overpowered or not.

Edited September 5, 2018 by macemen

[greedisgood500]

i really think that ram should not hit human.... how on earth u can hit human (maybe only capable if that human is stuck cannot move.hitting elephant is find since it so big...

btw i always wonder which catapult is the real? the AoE catapult got wheels the move and shoot without unpacking,and it throw a curve line....the catapult in 0 ad is pushing the stone...
I actually like to use ram (mostly playing race with elephant ...it somewhat like ram but could die to arrow)it totally OP if you mix elephant and ram together
catapult and blot shooter only do little damage to building you need to take an army to protect it. I really like feeling holding a ground outside enemy town and slowly break the wall 
catapult also have no fire damage is that added? or just planning feature)
Ram is actually more toward surprise attack capable since they move fast(too fast.......) and no need to unpack...no sword cavalry really gg

furthermore I want to ask can we give bolt shooter arrow more visual? I know about being realism(i love that too) but to measure how well those arrow and bolt work ,we need to make them a bit more bigger(a mode option maybe?)   being able to mount them on wall would be prefect too
 

[Jofursloft]

15 hours ago, greedisgood500 said:

 catapult and blot shooter only do little damage to building you need to take an army to protect it. I really like feeling holding a ground outside enemy town and slowly break the wall 
 catapult also have no fire damage is that added? or just planning feature)
 Ram is actually more toward surprise attack capable since they move fast(too fast.......) and no need to unpack...no sword cavalry really gg

Well, to be honest catapults are a very good siege unit for they chance of hit and do a great damage to a lot of units at the same time: with 4 catapults and even a not so many soldiers you can destroy a very big army. Anyway, I personally think that the speed can't be fixed: in that case you should fix every siege unit: catapults would become op against incoming rams. Also, rams are vulnerable (if alone) to a good amount of women, and, don't forget, to enemy rams: you can keep for example an extra ram in your fort to garrison/ungarrison while the fort is attacked. 

If you like, anyway, there are mods that fix the possibility of rams to attack units and their speed

[Astrid]

On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 5:08 AM, dmzerocold said:

Ram is not effective against army , but catapult is. 

maybe im wrong 

Just build your army to destroy the catapaults,and what I mean is make a lot of swordsmen,and they will destroy the siege weapons. Use the terrain to your advantage like the woods,mountains,rivers. While your swordsmen are destroying the catapault have your archers/slingers destroying the units controlling the siege weapons. Always moved around your units,and don't just stand in one area. Perhaps when the siege weapon is coming your way plan a tactic,and destroy it. You don't need catapaults on your faction to succeed. Just battle rams will work with an amazing army.

[Astrid]

17 hours ago, greedisgood500 said:

i really think that ram should not hit human.... how on earth u can hit human (maybe only capable if that human is stuck cannot move.hitting elephant is find since it so big...

btw i always wonder which catapult is the real? the AoE catapult got wheels the move and shoot without unpacking,and it throw a curve line....the catapult in 0 ad is pushing the stone...
I actually like to use ram (mostly playing race with elephant ...it somewhat like ram but could die to arrow)it totally OP if you mix elephant and ram together
catapult and blot shooter only do little damage to building you need to take an army to protect it. I really like feeling holding a ground outside enemy town and slowly break the wall 
catapult also have no fire damage is that added? or just planning feature)
Ram is actually more toward surprise attack capable since they move fast(too fast.......) and no need to unpack...no sword cavalry really gg

furthermore I want to ask can we give bolt shooter arrow more visual? I know about being realism(i love that too) but to measure how well those arrow and bolt work ,we need to make them a bit more bigger(a mode option maybe?)   being able to mount them on wall would be prefect too
 

Can a tank hit a human ? If the human is standing in front of the ram they will get hit so yes a ram should hit a human because the ram is powerful,it strong,and it's big so a soft target standing in front of it will be crushed. Very accurate.

[Astrid]

On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 4:13 AM, macemen said:

I don't see why would that make the game unbalanced. Those civilizations that don't have catapults have rams. Each civilization has an effective mean to level an enemy base. Some have more advanced siege capabilities than others, just like in history, but this is called differentiation not unbalance.

The barbarian germans beat the romans with armour not even near  as good as the romans wore. You don't need weapons or armour to match another faction. I agree with you. 

[greedisgood500]

 

6 hours ago, Astrid said:

Can a tank hit a human ? If the human is standing in front of the ram they will get hit so yes a ram should hit a human because the ram is powerful,it strong,and it's big so a soft target standing in front of it will be crushed. Very accurate.

I think it ok if the guy stand still...but all siege unit have instant turn even u hit it from side or behind them (the in game bolt shooter and catapult  is fixed on ground...i dun know why it can turn and switch target like a human can.and ram should not spin around when hitting enemy from behind etc...even today car cannot rotate on the spot(i think some special design car could do it)I agree on you if you somehow can block a enemy in front of you and charge the ram and hit it,it really work cool,however if you target is not in-front of you like 45 degrees from your original angle
you can do some crazy micro like pulling the ram away from enemy let them chase ....wait for attack cd finish and hit back and do that again.siege weapon doing hit and run like this look off((siege tower could do that too,just not so useful)...

 

8 hours ago, Jofursloft said:

 Also, rams are vulnerable (if alone) to a good amount of women, and, don't forget, to enemy rams: you can keep for example an extra ram in your fort to garrison/ungarrison while the fort is attacked. 

If you like, anyway, there are mods that fix the possibility of rams to attack units and their speed

god i complete forgot about village....since the game split into male and female...i best regard them complete useless in fight 

[Jofursloft]

8 hours ago, greedisgood500 said:

 god i complete forgot about village....since the game split into male and female...i best regard them complete useless in fight 

Sincerely, the women in fight ARE completely unuseful, cause they die very fast. It can happens, anyway, sometimes, that a player sends you 2-3 rams to destroy your main cc when you are fighting in another place: in that case you can use the women near fields to destroy them. This is why I prefer always garrison 10-15 units inside the rams to kill that women

15 hours ago, Astrid said:

Just build your army to destroy the catapaults,and what I mean is make a lot of swordsmen,and they will destroy the siege weapons. Use the terrain to your advantage like the woods,mountains,rivers. While your swordsmen are destroying the catapault have your archers/slingers destroying the units controlling the siege weapons. Always moved around your units,and don't just stand in one area. Perhaps when the siege weapon is coming your way plan a tactic,and destroy it. You don't need catapaults on your faction to succeed. Just battle rams will work with an amazing army.

Well, the problem is when the siege weapons (like 4 catapults) come with pikemes + ranged units: you can't come near them (that would be a terrible suicide of more than 30-40 swords and a few catas killed), cause they are protected by the army. The only one strat in that case would be 1) retire and wait the enemy to make a mistake, like split the capaults and the army 2) make catas yourself to counter (it happened me to play with borg- or Feldfeld games with more than 6-8 catas). The real problem is not destroy the catapults (that is also quite easy with a lot of swords), but it's to destroy them without lose a huge quantity of units

[Altrine]

Catapult is better than Rams in many ways and build are able to be repaired by men, but the Disadvantage of catapult is that it can be captured and its not wrong that Catapult is not given to all civs because others have rams better to destroy building continuously as Catapult need to be packed and unpacked, if you lose a fight and have to retreat you might have to pull another regiment of men to fight until the Catapults are packed and are able to move in a safer location. So, we might tell that Catapult doesnt have much advantage either to rams. Even thought they can attack men, they can be captures.

 

Any mistakes you can tell me i will change it.

[Jofursloft]

8 hours ago, Altrine said:

the Disadvantage of catapult is that it can be captured

In high level games players are not used to capture catapults because you firstly risk to lose many men under they attack, and secondly they need a lot of time to be captured, so it's better to destroy them.

In general catapults are good cause you can deal a great damage to the enemy army, but are difficult to protect, and lose only one causes you a lot of resources wasted. Rams are more dynamic and fast to attack/run away from buildings. They also have a great life (obv not against sword)

[thankforpie]

23 hours ago, Jofursloft said:

In high level games players are not used to capture catapults because you firstly risk to lose many men under they attack, and secondly they need a lot of time to be captured, so it's better to destroy them.

In general catapults are good cause you can deal a great damage to the enemy army, but are difficult to protect, and lose only one causes you a lot of resources wasted. Rams are more dynamic and fast to attack/run away from buildings. They also have a great life (obv not against sword)

i agree.. you need a lot of units to protect catapult. these units could be protecting archers instead.. if you hit fortress with catas then distance between catas and fortress is very small, enemy can make one or two ram or elephants and send them to your cats, and you need at least half of your army to protect from it before catas get hit (note they die for 3 quick ram/ele hits lol). u can hit rams with catas but if they come too close ur catas will start to pack and that time could be spend hitting enemy army)

(lets not forget ur units need to stand between catas andfortressall the time if u want to defend them, if fortress is garissoned that will make big part of your army dead and/or very damaged. but if you dont stay between catas and fort they will die before u reach enemy that will pop out of fortress, simply because u need slightly more time to kill ram/ele than they need to reach and kill catas).

 

 

while rams, u just send 3 to fortress and continue attacking enemy base from other sides, dont need to defend anything (at least not this much)

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by thankforpie

[Altrine]

It is quite true as you need an army to protect Catapult as it is packing, unpacking and other stuff as an err to be captured or to be abandoned like destroyed while rams don't need those type of protections and just get destroyed by destroying enemy building like suicide rams and continue to attack on other sides and give a continuous hard time to enemy and build or rebuild rams for next attack  or while Catapult is more effective on troops but due to range it might be hard to use as you need some paradise walls to be attacked by enemy or when your troops are in combat with enemy and in range for catapult to attack enemy so I would rather prefer Rams on most situations.