mesoamerican [Design] guide to make Mesoamerican mod.

[Indibil]

Hi i've been playing 0ad for a while and I want to help, so this topic looks perfect for me since I'm mexican so if you need any help or info I can help.

[Indibil]

I have an idea for aztecs; Aztecs located in a lake (literally) because of an ancient prophecy, because the used to be nomads until they could find an eagle standing in a nopal (Mexican cactus) eating a snake, and 200 years later after migrating from their origin land Aztlán they found it in a small piece of land on top of the Texcoco lake.

So they literally build their city on top of the lake, But how? They used an original technology called Chinampas these were pieces of land on top of the water.

To build chinampas they used logs which they used Mecate ropes ( Made from another Mexican cactus) to tie them and filled them with stones, dirt and other materials, the product was a piece of land on top of the water and they made lots of them and they didn't need irrigation systems, there were small spaces between each chinampa were the aztecs used canoes to travel between them.

They ended up making so many chinampas that they formed an entire city, that still remains today on top of the Texcoco lake, Tenochtitlán which many people don't know was the biggest city of its time ( Bigger then the Incas, Spanish, British, etc.).

Today chinampas are still there and you can travel to see them in a medium boat called Trajinera in the Xochimilco, they are still used and many people live in them. They have resisted all that time.

Another interesting fact is that the Texcoco lake covered most of the valley so today's Mexico city is most on top of chinampas ( Yeah the texcoco lake almost dissapeared.).

So my idea is to add chinampas to the aztecs, since these were the most important technology for them. 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Indibil
Grammar

[LordGood]

Aztecs, and even classical Maya would be too late-period for 0 AD (if someone were to mod in civs that would work alongside vanilla)

The Zapotecs seem to have existed at just the right time though, well, if you can dig up any information on them that Lion hasn't already.

[Indibil]

6 minutes ago, LordGood said:

Aztecs, and even classical Maya would be too late-period for 0 AD (if someone were to mod in civs that would work alongside vanilla)

The Zapotecs seem to have existed at just the right time though, well, if you can dig up any information on them that Lion hasn't already.

What type of info? Soldeirs, historical, language, heroes, architecture, location?

[LordGood]

2 minutes ago, Indibil said:

What type of info? Soldeirs, historical, language, heroes, architecture, location?

Anything that would help get a feel for the time and place, everything you listed above would be helpful.

[Indibil]

The Zapotecs were influenced by the mayans. They located in the state of Oaxaca. Their name was given by the Aztecs ( Rulers of Mesoamerica) it means in nahuatl (Aztec language) it means people of the Zapote (a Mexican fruit) but that wasn't their real name it was ben´zaa it means people of the clouds, they thought they were descendants of the clouds.

I found something interesting: they believed in the legend of the nahual ; they were priests with amulets that at night could transform into savage animals and terrorized the people.

I think this nahuales could be trainable champion priests. They were really scary I think they could debonus nearby enemy troops in attack because of fear. 

The design could be a normal soldeir with some wolf skin and other animal skins like on the third image.

But they need to be available not only to Zapotecs but also to aztecs because they both believed in them

[Indibil]

Time and location:

500 b.C.-1000 a.C.

Origin: 3500 years ago

State of Oaxaca

Main cities: Monte Albán, Mitla (Inside Monte Albán, main religious center, built 2000 years ago, culture florished there. )

[Indibil]

I  have another idea :

Mesoamerican civilizations played a game called juego de pelota (ball game)

They used a ball (don't ask what it was made of) and they kicked not with their feet but with their hips. The point was to make the ball go through a small ring on a wall.

There were 2 teams: in some civilizations the losers were sacrificed, in others like the Zapotecs the winner was sacrificed as a prize because they thought being sacrificed was the biggest honor.

They had ball game stadiums, so I though you could make a building like the greek Theatron that florishes culture. 

The Zapotecs aztecs and mayans played it

The 3rd and 2nd image is the zapotec one in Monte Albán

[Indibil]

You could also train champs from there because only the finest men played ball game, they would be much like naked fanatics

[Lion.Kanzen]

Here are a Nahuatl glossary ( Spanish) but is very complete.

http://mexica.ohui.net/glosarios/2/

Edited December 18, 2016 by Lion.Kanzen

[Indibil]

I already know many of the words because some of them are still used regularly

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 minute ago, Indibil said:

I already know many of the words because some of them are still used regularly

 

Yeah? Eso es bueno.

[Indibil]

Yeah the most popular word from the náhuatl its chocolate comes from chocolatl other words are esquincle that means kid or papalote that means butterfly but its used as kite

[Lion.Kanzen]

28 minutes ago, Indibil said:

Yeah the most popular word from the náhuatl its chocolate comes from chocolatl other words are esquincle that means kid or papalote that means butterfly but its used as kite

Tomate, esquincle is more famous in Mexico. Aguacate as Avocado.

[Indibil]

I found another problem with Mesoamerican civs. The lack of animals; What animals are we going to put in the corrals? , so I started looking up and found this:

They had 4 main sources of protein (meat):

1.- Ducks ( But only on a special season of the year )

2.- Xoloescuincle ( Hairless dog endemic from Mexico eaten by the royalty )

3.- Humans ( A typical Mexican dish called pozole today uses pig meat, but in those times it used human Aztecs were savages.)

4.- Guajolote or Huajolote ( Mexican version of turkey )

 

So I think the best option is the Guajolote because Ducks were irregular, Dogs (Xoloesquincle) would look cruel and were only eaten by the royalty, and Humans, well you get the point.

Guajolotes are easy to draw, usually eaten, and appropiate here are some images to get the reference:

 

 

[Indibil]

As another suggestion I think the fields should farm corn the most important crop, not wheat ( there was no wheat in Mesoamerica )

Corn was really important for them and sometimes considered sacred. Mayans think their god made them out of corn.

[Lion.Kanzen]

31 minutes ago, Indibil said:

As another suggestion I think the fields should farm corn the most important crop, not wheat ( there was no wheat in Mesoamerica )

Corn was really important for them and sometimes considered sacred. Mayans think their god made them out of corn.

That will be obvius.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Not all Mesoamerican is Mexico , that other point.

[Indibil]

HEROES:

AZTECS:

1. Nezahualcoyotl: Means fast coyote, He succeeded his father to the throne and His land was conquered by the Tepanecs of Azcapotzalco, later with a single military force he recovered Texcoco, and started whats known as the Texcoco golden age where he made a group of wise philosophers, artists, etc. and improved economy and culture grew exponetially. He is mainly known for some of his poems.
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nezahualcoyotl

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2. Moctezuma II: His name means "he who is angry in a noble manner" while in his reign the aztec kingdom reached its mayor size by warfare covering almost all Mezoamerica, He was the one that received the Spainiards, at first he thought they were gods then the Spainiards made an aliance with the civilizations under aztec control to cause revolts, so Moctezuma invited them to his palace and gave them gifts but then he realized their intentions and told them to leave, not many time after that the Spainiards attacked and killed many aztecs; His death has 2 theories he was betrayed or he was killed by Spanish soldiers.
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moctezuma_II

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3. Tenoch: Founder of Mexico, He was a priest and the ruler of the aztecs, In the prophecy it said that he needed tho find an eagle standing in a nopal eating a snake, so in their 200year long migration they found many enemies. When they were close to the Mexican valley they found themselves agianst the Tepanecs of Azcapotzalco he fought them and won easily, then he found himself in the territory of the culhues were the king knew them he knew they were agrressive and dangerous so he gave them a small part of his territory which was the harshest but they managed to survived, later on he gave them his daughter the culhua princess so Tenoch sacrificed her, skinned her, used her as a cape, and made pozole (previously mentioned) with the rest. Then after 200 years just as he was getting expelled by the culhues he found the sign of the prophecy in the Texcoco lake, So he founded his city Tenichtitlán there and later they became the greatest empire of Mezoamerica. He was later "divinized" because of his amazing achievements, they consideered him as a god. Source: History classes, http://afrarodriguez.blogspot.mx/2014/01/tenoch-fundador-de-mexico-tenochtitlan.html.

[Indibil]

4 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Not all Mesoamerican is Mexico , that other point.

Well mostly, only a little of central america that was originally a part of New Spain ( Mexico).

[Indibil]

If you need anything else just tell me, like images, civ suggestions, building suggestions, translations etc.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Aztecs are later than the others.

[Indibil]

11 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Aztecs are later than the others.

So do romans.

And aztecs have tons of informations while other civs are like ghosts also aztecs are literally the romans of mesoamerica:

They came later

They conquered almost everything

They had many other civilizations on their power

They killed humans for fun

[Indibil]

And many of the other previous civs lasted until Spanish conquest, while Mayans were really advanced, older than any other common civ in mesoamerica and they suddently vanished and no one knows why.

My opinion is that if we erase aztecs from the list of civs, the others would be very incomplete and unknown.

[Indibil]

Quick question is the mod about mesoamerica or america from mexico to argentina in general?

I saw you mentioned something about the Incas so thats why I want to know