More General, King and other names for AI.

[Prodigal Son]

Athens:

• Conon
• Chremonides

Macedonians:

• Alexander I of Epirus
• Alexander II Of Epirus
• Eumenes
• Cassander
• Perdiccas
• Craterus
• Archelaus I of Macedon (slightly before the period that portrays them but he paved the road for Philip and Alexander).

Persians:

• Dates
• Mardonius
• Artafernes
• Memnon The Rhodian
• Ariobarzanes
• Cyrus the Younger
• Artaxerxes V (Bessus)
• Could also add many satrap names but I guess no

Ptolemies:

• Scopas of Aetolia

Seleucids:

• Achaeus
• Could use some Bactrian and Pergamene names like Epirot ones for Macedon?
• I'd also remove those after Sidetes, since they where essentialy puppet kings

Spartans:

• Cleomenes III (the one who did the pike reform)
• Cleombrotus
• Pausanias
• Nabis
• Areus
• Add I/II etc like for other civs?

Romans:

• Many of the existing general names are post-marian. I'd replace them with others like the following unless marian reforms are added
• Lucius Aemilius Paullus Macedonicus
• Gaius Marius (could be used I guess)
• Quintus Caecilius Metellus Macedonicus
• Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus Cunctator
• Titus Quinctius Flamininus
• Lucius Mummius Achaicus
• Manius Curius Dentatus
• Publius Decius Mus
• Publius Valerius Laevinus
• Lucius Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus
• Publius Cornelius Scipio Aemilianus Africanus Numantinus
• Gaius Claudius Nero
• Gaius Terentius Varro
• Lucius Aemilius Paullus
• Marcus Claudius Marcellus
• Gaius Flaminius Nepos
• Marcus Atilius Regulus

Another way of doing it could be limiting the AI names to the few most iconic ones per faction. Not sure what's best here, covering more parts of history or giving something more memorable?

Maybe each AI name could also be accompanied by it's translation in the language of the player's civ. So when facing "Kurush The Great" as Athens, you would be getting something like "Kurush The Great (Cyros o Megas)".

Edited December 18, 2013 by Prodigal Son

[Zeta1127]

If we are going to be thinking about Imperial generals, then don't forget Gnaeus Domitius Corbulo (Halo, specifically Halo 4: Forward Unto Dawn, has its uses). His supposed last words, Axios!, should also be utilized in some manner.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Zeta1127

[Mythos_Ruler]

I actually had the idea of having fewer AI names (perhaps 3 per civ) and then giving each one a "personality" and "strategy" style. "Personality" can be the way the AI chats and taunts. "Strategies" can be minor tweaks to the AI's strategy and tactics. Both personality and strategy would complement each other.

For instance, for Athens, could have:

Alcibiades AI

Personality: Overconfident, even when defeat is inevitable. Boisterous. Quick. Backstabber. Raider. Expansionist.

Strategies: Raids a lot. Attacks often with small to medium forces. Doesn't build walls at all. In team matches, has a 10% chance of switching allegiance on his ally if tributed enough resources. Tries to build his 1st expansion rather quickly, at the 10 minute mark if possible. Builds new expansions often and whenever possible, even if he can't defend them (this guy will probably lose lots of Civic Centers in the course of a match).

Pericles AI

Personality: Thoughtful. Eloquent. Democratic. Defensive. Turtler. Builder.

Strategies: Turler, so builds lots of defenses, walls, towers, etc., around his starting base, while being fairly aggressive with his navy. Tends to build more Temples and other structures, and goes for the Wonder victory more aggressively than other Athenian AIs.

Themistocles AI

Personality: Quick wit. Humorous. Cunning. Aggressive. Alliance builder.

Strategies: This AI is the most aggressive with the navy and builds more docks than the other 2 Athenian AI variations. He goes for the Long Walls upgrade as soon as possible and uses stone walls to section off parts of the map. He is extra aggressive against the opponent in the other team who is playing as the Persians. He also temps other players on the enemy team to join his team with promises of tribute, especially if those enemy players are Greek or Successor factions. He might even send some chats/taunts to individuals in the enemy team to sow dissent, and even lie about other players.

[Prodigal Son]

I like it, good idea:) However it's best to have them with different pros and cons rather than stronger or weaker. Alcibiades as described here should be a lot weaker than the other two. Also how about, instead of Alcibiades, someone who mostly lead Athenian land forces? (cause he mostly fought sea battles while on Athenian side, like the other two, and for the most part he fought against Athens). Like Iphicrates (reform/tech focus - light troops & champions, offensive, anti-Spartan), Miltiades (mass hoplites, anti-Persian), Chremonides or Leosthenes (offensive, with a slight focus on cavalry compared to other Athenian personalities, Greek diplomacy, pro-Ptolemaic, anti-Macedonian).

[feneur]

I would say having AIs be slightly different in difficulty would not necessarily be a bad thing. After all, not every player is on the same skill level, and everyone should be able to have a fun game Also, if you play against more than two AIs it might be nice to have one who's stronger and one who's weaker for example, just to spice things up. Also, depending on the map/the opponent different strategies will prove the best, so it's not necessarily certain which is the strongest

[Prodigal Son]

I thought difficulty would be another setting additional to the AI character. Besides that, agreed on the rest, that's kinda what I said with different pros and cons, giving (dis)advantages depending on the situation/map etc.

[feneur]

I thought difficulty would be another setting additional to the AI character. Besides that, agreed on the rest, that's kinda what I said with different pros and cons, giving (dis)advantages depending on the situation/map etc.

It's different, I'm just saying that that doesn't make it impossible to differentiate the AIs depending on "AI name" as well

[Lion.Kanzen]

It's different, I'm just saying that that doesn't make it impossible to differentiate the AIs depending on "AI name" as well

if im not wrong rise of Nations do it that , but they named economic, aggressive etc... And give a name depending of character .

[idanwin]

I love the idea.

But difficulty should remain an independent setting IMHO.

Wouldn't it be a little unfair if the persian player is more likely to be attacked than the other? (but I don't really mind since that's only the case for single-player and co-op)

What if there is 4 athenian AI players? Would one name appear twice? Or do we use additional names (without particular strategies attached?)

This would be sooo great for historical campaigns!

[Prodigal Son]

It's different, I'm just saying that that doesn't make it impossible to differentiate the AIs depending on "AI name" as well

Yup, got you:) Still differentiation should focus on giving various strengths and weaknesses, not making some of them overall much stronger/weaker by default, when difficulty can sort that. So a naval focus AI will be stronger on naval maps, while a raider and a boomer AI on the same difficulty should be approximately equals to each other on a land map.

I love the idea.

But difficulty should remain an independent setting IMHO.

Wouldn't it be a little unfair if the persian player is more likely to be attacked than the other? (but I don't really mind since that's only the case for single-player and co-op)

What if there is 4 athenian AI players? Would one name appear twice? Or do we use additional names (without particular strategies attached?)

This would be sooo great for historical campaigns!

Made me think: Maybe add AI personalities per faction equal to max player number (8?) minus one (or 8 for a round number), so we can have every AI under a different name on any situation?

Edited December 19, 2013 by Prodigal Son

[Mythos_Ruler]

Made me think: Maybe add AI personalities per faction equal to max player number (8?) minus one (or 8 for a round number), so we can have every AI under a different name on any situation?

This sounds logical.

[feneur]

Made me think: Maybe add AI personalities per faction equal to max player number (8?) minus one (or 8 for a round number), so we can have every AI under a different name on any situation?

If it's easy enough to customize the AI that sounds like a really nice idea to give that kind of flexibility. I don't know how easy it is to program, but I would assume that it should be possible to essentially define all the personalities in e.g. JSON files and just use percentages for e.g. naval, walls, defensive, etc. That would probably make it hard to do them really customizable and e.g. send lying chat messages etc. Unless that too was very generic, so you'd e.g. set the AI to be truthful, or bullying, or lying, and then the AI code would make a choice. Say it's lying and has got a template message that goes something like: "If you attack [player 2] I'll attack [player 4]". That would not include the possibility to e.g. have the Hannibal one say something like "I'm going to crush you like I did at Cannae", but a flexible enough system could probably include both.

[Prodigal Son]

If it's easy enough to customize the AI that sounds like a really nice idea to give that kind of flexibility. I don't know how easy it is to program, but I would assume that it should be possible to essentially define all the personalities in e.g. JSON files and just use percentages for e.g. naval, walls, defensive, etc. That would probably make it hard to do them really customizable and e.g. send lying chat messages etc. Unless that too was very generic, so you'd e.g. set the AI to be truthful, or bullying, or lying, and then the AI code would make a choice. Say it's lying and has got a template message that goes something like: "If you attack [player 2] I'll attack [player 4]". That would not include the possibility to e.g. have the Hannibal one say something like "I'm going to crush you like I did at Cannae", but a flexible enough system could probably include both.

No clue on coding difficulty but if we settle them to be this way (or anyway, just having knowledge of how many to do: 3, 7, 8, more for the team to choose from?) I could come up with a list of personality proposals per faction accordingly to Mythos' format, and maybe adding some more details.

[idanwin]

Wouldn't 8 personalities per faction be a lot? I think we have 12 factions (including Seleucides) that would mean 96 personalities in total!

I wouldn't complain if people are willing to do that, but it does sound like a lot of work.

Would the benefits of having so many AI personalities weigh up to the confusion it would give new players?

I personally think it is more reasonable to start less ambitious (4 per faction say - I never played a game with more than 4 same civs) and (since this is open source) we can always add more when we feel like it.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Don't forget diplomacy and the AI sending messages.

Cleopatra VIi: huh, training soldiers? My Elephants crushing this little Army. ( when you are training batches..)

Hannibal Barca: I promise defeat all Nations and Enemies of Carthage to day I will defeat you. ( at start of game)

Xerxes: I decline have an accord with your poorly faction. ( try to do a diplomacy)

Agis: it's well know you are a great tactician we send some men to protect your people.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Wouldn't 8 personalities per faction be a lot? I think we have 12 factions (including Seleucides) that would mean 96 personalities in total!

I wouldn't complain if people are willing to do that, but it does sound like a lot of work.

Would the benefits of having so many AI personalities weigh up to the confusion it would give new players?

I personally think it is more reasonable to start less ambitious (4 per faction say - I never played a game with more than 4 same civs) and (since this is open source) we can always add more when we feel like it.

And if we reduced to defensive, Agressive, Turtle, economic boomer , etc... And those are template for some personalities.

[Prodigal Son]

And if we reduced to defensive, Agressive, Turtle, economic boomer , etc... And those are template for some personalities.

Could be one way of doing it, but it would be better if each faction's boomer for example plays a little differently depending on the actual's charachers personality. Or one faction could have two different raiders if it was a common strategy for them.

[idanwin]

I'm definitely for giving each ruler a different playing style. And I think it's a very good idea to think about (and collect) taunts, traits and tactics that fit these personalities. Please don't get me wrong on that. It's just that I think that actually implementing all these (slightly) different AI's might be something that could wait. But that shouldn't stop people from making some 'sketches'.

Every faction would need some rulers with particular styles (like expansionist, raider, turtler and balanced) and the others could be slight variations on these with preferences for certain unit types/technologies.

[Lion.Kanzen]

You can imagine a Ai with Themistocles personality ? Can be boomer and very efficient against a spamming rusher.

[hollth]

Would it be feasible to group the behaviours into various traits or some such? Different traits are more or less prevalent (controlled via scale or per cent etc) depending on the personality. Adjust the scales of traits and you have a large number of personalities. You could do behaviours directly instead of grouping them for more control but I would imagine the work creating each personality would be more work that way?

Edit: didn't see fenuer's post. Already been said, my bad

Edited December 20, 2013 by hollth

[Prodigal Son]

Did some Athenian ones, tell me if they're any good:

(first 3 by Mythos, Italics are my added ideas on them)

1) Alcibiades AI

• Personality: Overconfident, even when defeat is inevitable. Boisterous. Quick. Backstabber. Raider. Expansionist. Oligarch.
• Strategies: Raids a lot. Attacks often with small to medium forces. Doesn't build walls at all. In team matches, has a 10% chance of switching allegiance on his ally if tributed enough resources. Tries to build his 1st expansion rather quickly, at the 10 minute mark if possible. Builds new expansions often and whenever possible, even if he can't defend them (this guy will probably lose lots of Civic Centers in the course of a match). Favors naval expansion and raiding on water maps (he fought mostly as admiral besides some sieges and raids).

2) Pericles AI

• Personality: Thoughtful. Eloquent (and comforting/convincing with his advice to the player as an ally when you’re pressed hard). Democratic (but despotic over allies, might ask for resources in return for sparing units for allied protection or “to build something huge”). Defensive. Turtler. Builder.
• Strategies: Turtler, so builds lots of defenses, walls, towers, etc., around his starting base, while being fairly aggressive with his navy. Tends to build more Temples and other structures, and goes for the Wonder victory more aggressively than other Athenian AIs. When he expands he prefers to do so by destroying enemy expansions and building on them (he sent off many settlers, most of them replacing captured enemy or revolted allied populations - could work with capturing instead of destroying as favored tactic, which fits most other Athenians AIs as well)

3) Themistocles AI

• Personality: Quick wit. Humorous. Cunning. Aggressive. Alliance builder. Democrat.
• Strategies: This AI is the most aggressive with the navy and builds more docks than the other Athenian AI variations (Aims for having more ships than any other player?). He goes for the Long Walls upgrade as soon as possible and uses stone walls to section off parts of the map. He is extra aggressive against the opponent in the other team who is playing as the Persians. He also temps other players on the enemy team to join his team with promises of tribute, especially if those enemy players are Greek or Successor factions. He might even send some chats/taunts to individuals in the enemy team to sow dissent, and even lie about other players.

4) Miltiades AI

• Personality: Vengeful. Oligarch. Aggressive.
• Strategies: Likes mass hoplite armies (since he's in the early era of almost exclusively hoplite warfare) and also Thracian peltasts (due to his Thracian rule). Favors upgrades to these units. Attacks frequently, especially vs enemies who have attacked him first (and Persians?). Builds a fleet on naval maps but doesn’t focus on it as much as the previous Athenian AIs.

5) Cimon AI

• Personality: Oligarch. Aggressive. Builder. Alliance builder.
• Strategies: Likes alliances, especially with Spartans. Favors attacks, especially on Persians. Builds temples and walls and civic buildings. Slightly in favor of hoplites and peltasts over other units (Thracian ties like his father Miltiades), slight naval focus on water maps.

6) Thrasybulus AI

• Personality: Democrat. Aggressive. Expansionist. Loudmouth but good speaker. Alliance builder. Stubborn/Persistent.
• Strategies: Frequent naval victor, focuses on navy on water maps. Likes to attack and expand, especially against spartans and athenian oligarchs. Might attack even when outnumbered. Likes diplomacy and asking for tributes. Wall builder.

7) Iphicrates AI

• Personality: Democrat. Aggressive. Expansionist. Reformer.
• Strategies: Focuses on military tech upgrades. Likes ranged and champion units, especially peltasts, marines and the city guard (with smaller shield and longer spear i think those represent iphicratian hoplites right?). Attacks, raids and expands quite a lot, especially vs spartans.

8) Demosthenes AI

• Personality: Democrat. Great speaker (should have some of the most impressive taunts, and some special badmouthing for everyone allied to a Phillip AI). Alliance builder.
• Strategies: Focuses on upgrades that make construction, recruitment and technology faster/cheaper (could be the athenian boomer?). Likes alliances. Favours attacks against macedonians and tries to convince his allies to attack them as well. Naval focus on water maps.

9) Leosthenes AI

• Personality: Democrat. Prestigious. Alliance Builder. Aggressive. Reckless.
• Strategies: Recruits a huge, balanced army, the most cavalry heavy of all athenian AIs (they had thessalians on their side among others during the Lamian War, could even make him focus mostly on cavalry). Loves alliances, especially with other Greeks. Aggressive, especially vs macedonians. Might storm enemy defenses even without enough siege equipment.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Prodigal Son

[Lion.Kanzen]

nice, but all are Aggresive? and Defending and Counterattacking

[Prodigal Son]

nice, but all are Aggresive? and Defending and Counterattacking

Based them on their real traits, and since most of them tried to establish an Athenian hegemony or counter rising threats to it's existence, most of them were aggressive. I know some have major similarities as they are but they can be reworked accordingly by the team to better fit various roles. Other factions should have much more variety.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Prodigal Son

[Lion.Kanzen]

I want a open a ticket for this one. If a team member don't like, say now please.

[sanderd17]

There is no point in opening a ticket yet. It's a feature that will cost a lot of time, and can only be done when the AI itself is already pretty good.

These are things we won't forget either.