Han heroes are wildly different than their real life counterpart

[Arup]

There are three heroes of the Han in the game,namely:

Liu Bang, the first Emperor 

Han Xin,his brilliant general

Wei Qing, a later great cavalry general under Emperor Wu.

 

 

only the Han Xin's design makes sense to me,although I'm interested to know what exactly this Northern and Southern Army bonus is referring historically to.

 

Liu Bang was not a great individual fighter,or a tactical battlefield commander. His success came largely through his own charisma and the ability to recognise talent.His rule is also known for lower taxes and agricultural reforms so, the cavalry bonus makes no sense to me. If anything, his bonus should be a economy focused hero,or atleast something a bit more non-combatant. 

 

now here is the problem for which I made the entire post:

WEI QING.

he was LITERALLY KNOWN for his horsemanship and praised by his emperor for it. WHY DOES HE THEN RIDE A CHARIOT? he was also known for his marksmanship,so it would be fine to make him an archer cavalry hero, probably the first of its kind in the vanilla game.

I also suggest adding the cavalry bonus to Wei Qing,as he was the Grand Master of the Horse- Grand General,

General of the Chariots and Cavalry.

additionally with these big changes,I believe his aura of reducing enemy cav attack should remain. the 30m will be less powerful when you realise he is an archer

[Arup]

I forgot to mention,but why is Wei Qing's bonus named "Mandate of Heaven" ? he isn't even an emperor

[Thalatta]

43 minutes ago, Arup said:

only the Han Xin's design makes sense to me,although I'm interested to know what exactly this Northern and Southern Army bonus is referring historically to.

Nothing accurate apparently, since "the first appearance of the 'Northern Army' in historical records of the Han Dynasty was after the death of Emperor Hui" (https://www.lsdlyj.com.cn/CN/abstract/abstract46386.shtml), and Emperor Hui died in 188 BC, while Han Xin died around 8 years earlier, in 196 BC.

 

46 minutes ago, Arup said:

I forgot to mention,but why is Wei Qing's bonus named "Mandate of Heaven" ? he isn't even an emperor

Being generous, maybe because he won many victories for the Emperor, maintaining the "Mandate of Heaven" (many loses could be interpreted as illegitimacy). But I agree that this, and many other things you mentioned, could be improved. I could eventually do for Liu Bang and Wei Qing what I did here for Han Xin:

 

 

[Thalatta]

On 15/09/2026 at 7:50 PM, Thalatta said:

I could eventually do for Liu Bang and Wei Qing what I did here for Han Xin:

 

Totally forgot about this. Here some ideas:

 

Liu Bang (Emperor Gaozu)

Using The Early Chinese Empires: Qin and Han, by M. E. Lewis:

Compromiser: some (global?) bonus, maybe economic, but only for allies ("making concessions to the power of regional loyalties and the need to reward his allies").

Rewarder: maybe ranged aura for faster champion production ("he divided the more populous east and the Yangzi valley into ten kingdoms that were distributed as rewards to his leading followers", "when you sent someone to attack a city or occupy territory, you gave them what they conquered, sharing your gains with the whole world", and ""As for calculating strategies within the commander’s tent and thereby assuring victory a thousand miles away, I am not as good as Zhang Liang. As for ordering a state, making the people content, providing rations for troops and assuring that supply lines are not cut, I am not as good as Xiao He. As for assembling a million-man army, winning every battle fought, and taking every city attacked, I am not as good as Han Xin. These three are great men, and I was able to employ them. That is why I gained the empire""). Do not name this "Ten Kingdoms", that's more strongly associated with something much later in Chinese history.

Guanzhong Ban: global production time penalty for enemy cavalry. For this not to be too OP, crossbowmen should be quite vulnerable to them ("whole set of regulations, including a ban on the exportation of horses from Guanzhong (to reduce the military threat of the kingdoms to the east)").

Refounder: ranged aura for faster CC construction ("When the Han founder, Liu Bang, decided that for security he should also make his capital in the Qin heartland, he had to build a new city largely from scratch").

Spoiler

And there's other stuff, some of which I'm using later from better sources, for example: "writing a century after the Han founding, Sima Qian related that Emperor Gaozu’s mother had been impregnated by a dragon, the Red God (di). Consequently Gaozu had a remarkable physiognomy that presaged his rise to world rulership", "Gaozu, son of the Red God", "the emperor Gaozu’s father-in-law gave him his daughter in marriage only because his physiognomy revealed a glorious future that would exalt his relatives", "Gaozu imported shamans from throughout the empire to perform cults in the palace, and he established a short-lived altar to the war god Chi You", and "Qin initiated a cult to the white di, probably because it was the westernmost state and hence under the patronage of that god. It later added cults for the yellow, green, and red di, perhaps as the ritual expressions of conquests in the central states, Chu, and the east. The cult to the black di was begun by the Han founder Gaozu in 205 b.c., and from that time forward the di were worshipped as a group representing all of space. As in other domains, the early Han carried forward Qin religious practices, not only continuing the sacrifices but entrusting them to the same offices and using the same music. Even the title huangdi, coined by the First Emperor from Qin’s high gods, was used by Han emperors. The 186 the early chinese empires: qin and han Han continued to link the cult of the di to authority over the land, as indicated in the Han ritual of enfeoffment. The Son of Heaven had an altar to the soil (she) composed of five colors of earth."

Using Records of the Grand Historian: Han Dynasty II, by Sima Qian, translated by B. Watson:

Altar of the North: can his presence unlock the building of this to speed up Temple production? ("“But I have heard that there are Five Emperors in Heaven,” said Gaozu. “Why is it that the Qin rulers worshipped only four?” When no one was able to offer an explanation, Gaozu replied, “I know the reason. They were waiting for me to come and complete the five!” He accordingly set up a place of worship for the Black Emperor, called the Altar of the North, with officials appointed to carry out its sacrifices").

Trader Tax: global bonus to make traders more profitable, but slower ("Gaozu issued an order forbidding merchants to wear silk or ride in carriages, and increased the taxes that they were obliged to pay in order to hamper and humiliate them").

He seems correctly represented as a sword wielding 'warrior' since "Emperor Gaozu led an army in person to attack them" and "Emperor Gaozu boasted that ‘It was I who won the empire with my three-foot sword’" (if fact, and not innuendo).

Spoiler

Other interesting details for those who want to delve further: "Gaozu accordingly issued an edict to the imperial secretary ordering places of worship set up in all the provinces, districts, and feudal kingdoms, called Shrines of the Sacred Star, and dedicated to Hou Ji, where oxen should be sacrificed at the appropriate seasons each year. In the spring of the tenth year of Gaozu’s reign (197 BC) the officials requested that the emperor order the districts to make offerings of a sheep and a pig to the altars of the soil and grain in the third and twelfth months of each year, the people in each district to raise the money for the sacrifices at their respective local shrines".

 

Wei Qing

Using Records of the Grand Historian: Han Dynasty II, by Sima Qian, translated by B. Watson:

General in Chief: large ranged aura for mild combat bonus ("general in chief Wei Qing, commanding six generals and an army of over 100,000, attacked the Xiongnu leader known as the Wise King of the Right, beheading or capturing 15,000 of the enemy. The following year Wei Qing again led six generals in another attack on the barbarians, beheading or capturing 19,000 men" and "general in chief Wei Qing and the general of swift cavalry Huo Qubing marched in great force to attack the Xiongnu, capturing or killing 80,000 or 90,000 of the barbarians. Rewards handed out for the expedition amounted to 500,000 catties of gold", among similar mentions).

General of Chariot and Cavalry (Chēqí Jiāngjūn, although many bonuses lack a specific name): ranged aura for cavalry and chariots combat bonus ("at this time the carriage and cavalry general Wei Qing attacked the Xiongnu" and "the carriage and cavalry general Wei Qing marched out of Yanmen to attack them", among similar mentions, important ones being "in the fifth year of the yuwanguang era (129 BC) Wei Qing was appointed general of carriage and cavalry" and "Wei Qing showed great intelligence in his orders and bravery in the face of the enemy, always leading his men in an attack"). And yes, he rode a horse, not a chariot, as @Arup pointed out.

Marquis of Changping: ranged aura for capture bonus ("he captured or killed several thousand of the enemy, seized 20,000 or 30,000 of their domestic animals, and put to flight the kings of the Baiyang and Loufan tribes, thus making it possible to establish the province of Shuofang south of the bend of the river. Because of this Wei Qing was enfeoffed as marquis of Changping with 3,800 households" and "he was able to discover and seize the main body of their force. Then, with over 1,000,000 horses, oxen, and sheep, and with his entire army still intact, he returned. Therefore we have increased his fief by 3,000 households", among similar mentions).

Considerate: maybe champion loot bonus ("Wei Qing firmly declined to accept the honours accorded to his sons, saying, “Unworthy as I am, I have been granted the privilege of riding into battle. Through the divine wisdom of Your Majesty, the army has won a great victory, but the merit is due wholly to the fighting ability of my officers. Your Majesty has graciously increased my own fief, but my sons are still in swaddling clothes and have performed no service. Though Your Majesty kindly wishes to set aside lands and enfeoff them as well, I fear it would do little to encourage the men who have fought under me. How could I dare to accept fiefs for Kang and my other sons?” But the emperor replied, “I have not forgotten the achievements of your officers. At this very moment I am considering how to reward them”" and ""(...) When he pitches camp, if the wells that are dug fail to bring up much water, he will wait until all his men have had their fill before he ventures to drink, and when the army is in retreat he will not cross a river until every one of his men has reached the other bank. All the gifts of gold and silk which the empress dowager has given him he has distributed among his officers. Even the most famous generals of antiquity could not surpass such acts as these!”").

 

In general for the Han:

All-Under-Heaven: this is related, but not the same, as the Mandate of Heaven principle. A Han civ bonus to produce certain units, like healers or Heroes, from allied structures? ("within six years the geography of empire Gaozu had contrived to replace all but one of the kings with his own brothers or sons, thus affirming the principle that “all under Heaven was the realm of the Liu clan.”", from The Early Chinese Empires: Qin and Han, by M. E. Lewis; "the Manchus successfully invoked the imperial concept of “all-under-Heaven” to secure for their political project legible foundations within Chinese culture. It was this trend to which Fairbank drew attention, attributing the geographical enlargement of the “Chinese” state to a tendency “for exterior vassals of one period to become interior vassals of a later period”", and "consensual fiction of Chinese power: that the emperor ruled “all-under- Heaven” (tianxia) on Heaven’s behalf, and that his ritual jurisdiction extended outward to “all within the four seas” (sihai zhi nei) or, sometimes, “all within the four directions” (sifang)", from Sacred Mandates, edited by T. Brook, M. van Walt van Praag, and M. Boltjes).

Bolt load: crossbows should have a first instantaneous shot if still for a bit. First I thought to give this bonus to Liu Bang, but since as Emperor he was more of an administrator, I removed this combat bonus, which should actually be a general crossbow characteristic ("Gaozu ordered his men to load their crossbows with arrows and hold them in readiness pointed toward the outside").