Better Boats Mod

[Asher]

4 hours ago, Thalatta said:

Regarding swimming, some could, but not heavy troops.

Yes, maybe champions and cavalry units sink, but all others can swim

4 hours ago, Thalatta said:

And that's fine, because as @real_tabasco_sauce says, you don't want all your ships to be ranged units when garrisoned. Besides, shooting while on a ship is harder than from land, so that bonus is misplaced (maybe only if you consider ship towers)

The range bonus is for the turreted units, not the boat. Or maybe I don't understand what you are saying, could you explain please

4 hours ago, Thalatta said:

I think one should consider the "arrow ship" as a ship with an oxybeles,

Shouldn't it do 200 some damage then, like the bolt shooter does

4 hours ago, Thalatta said:

Additionally, one could have some light close ranged attack if ships are garrisoned, since realistically this should affect mostly crews, not ships (but right now the game doesn't deal with that, which I think it should, for both ships and sieges, to enhance the game further)

I agree, I think the more you garrison, the more fire power it should have at close range

[Thalatta]

1 minute ago, Asher said:

The range bonus is for the turreted units, not the boat. Or maybe I don't understand what you are saying, could you explain please

By "turreted" I guess you mean the people on deck (even in cases where there are no real turrets there, I've stated many times around that this is an misnomer, and that "posted" works better in general). What I said is about the people on deck, so we are talking about the same thing. They shouldn't have a range bonus, unless there's an actual tower in the ship (which only the bigger ships have), and shouldn't be too much anyway.

 

1 minute ago, Asher said:

Shouldn't it do 200 some damage then, like the bolt shooter does

In theory yes, and have more range, but its accuracy could be reduced, since the ship moves. That's why catapults were used in the bigger ships, not only because of more space, but stability.

[Asher]

10 hours ago, Thalatta said:

By "turreted" I guess you mean the people on deck (even in cases where there are no real turrets there, I've stated many times around that this is an misnomer, and that "posted" works better in general). What I said is about the people on deck, so we are talking about the same thing. They shouldn't have a range bonus, unless there's an actual tower in the ship (which only the bigger ships have), and shouldn't be too much anyway.

Just clarifying, you are saying I should say "posted on deck" instead of turreted, because people think I mean something else? So, maybe if the bigger boats (like siege ships), could have the range bonus, but arrow and ram ships don't

10 hours ago, Thalatta said:

In theory yes, and have more range, but its accuracy could be reduced, since the ship moves. That's why catapults were used in the bigger ships, not only because of more space, but stability.

Yah, that makes sense, harder to hit a moving target, or harder to hit something when moving. Maybe I could make a mod or something that does that

[Asher]

So, it seems there is a dispute whether it should be a mod or pull request, so I made a poll that ends at 12:00 on the 16th

[Thalatta]

1 hour ago, Asher said:

Just clarifying, you are saying I should say "posted on deck" instead of turreted, because people think I mean something else?

I think people will understand you because people use misnomers. I'm just saying I think it's confusing to say "turreted" when the ship has no "turrets" (the ship towers), or when troops can only be "turreted" in the part of the wall that has no turrets, and not "turreted" in the actual turrets. The problem is that, as with many other things in this game, the person that called that action "turret" had no idea what that actually meant.

 

1 hour ago, Asher said:

So, maybe if the bigger boats (like siege ships), could have the range bonus, but arrow and ram ships don't

But a small one, ship towers were not really meant to increase range, but to be in a better position to rain missiles on enemy decks (usually they were the same height, with the exception of the quadrireme, which commonly had two levels of oars instead of three).

 

1 hour ago, Asher said:

So, it seems there is a dispute whether it should be a mod or pull request

That is different from the question of your poll. You asked "should being able to put units on the deck of the ship be just a mod, or part of vanilla 0 A.D.?", and my answer is obviously yes, for many reasons, but eventually, not necessarily right now, this has not been properly tested, nor is being yet done with what should be the main purpose in mind: boarding. So these things should start as a mod, and only after quite some fine-tuning, be implemented in vanilla.

[Asher]

3 hours ago, Thalatta said:

I think people will understand you because people use misnomers. I'm just saying I think it's confusing to say "turreted" when the ship has no "turrets" (the ship towers), or when troops can only be "turreted" in the part of the wall that has no turrets, and not "turreted" in the actual turrets. The problem is that, as with many other things in this game, the person that called that action "turret" had no idea what that actually meant.

Ok, I was using "turreted" because that is what I used in the code. I added <TurretHolder> to the boat xml files. But I'll start saying "on deck" instead.

3 hours ago, Thalatta said:

That is different from the question of your poll. You asked "should being able to put units on the deck of the ship be just a mod, or part of vanilla 0 A.D.?", and my answer is obviously yes, for many reasons, but eventually, not necessarily right now, this has not been properly tested, nor is being yet done with what should be the main purpose in mind: boarding. So these things should start as a mod, and only after quite some fine-tuning, be implemented in vanilla.

Ok, I'll just start it out as a mod then, and then maybe make a PR