raymond Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 I see in the scenario editor, that only female citizen. Is is historically correct, there no male citizens in this time? I think occasionally a male citizen would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feneur Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Please see http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Manual_Terminology#CitizenSoldiers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oshron Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 the male citizens are all soldiers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimball Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 You must be referring to our implementation of the "Y Chromosome Scare of 346 BC". It was an epidemic, you know. This game is committed to historical accuracy and it'd be downright irresponsible if we pretended it didn't happen.Curiously enough, the textile industry saw a considerable amount of innovation that year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeru Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 I think it would be fun and somewhat more egalitarian if a male citizen popped up like 10-20% of the time.Also the person who started the post referred to the Atlas editor - I agree a male citizen should be available for scenario designers to place on the map, if not in regular conquest games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serveurix Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 I think it would be fun and somewhat more egalitarian if a male citizen popped up like 10-20% of the time.I fully agree. The fact that some warriors are female and that male soldiers can do economic tasks doesn't solve the sexism issue, IMHO. The lack of male non-soldiers citizen in every civ (not only the civs that practised military service, like Romans) still suggests that men are made for war, and it's a bit disturbing. We should be very vigilant with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) I fully agree. The fact that some warriors are female and that male soldiers can do economic tasks doesn't solve the sexism issue, IMHO. The lack of male non-soldiers citizen in every civ (not only the civs that practised military service, like Romans) still suggests that men are made for war, and it's a bit disturbing. We should be very vigilant with this. may be you are right, may be Male and Female can Upgrade to other task, Femalee can be upgrade to Healer, or Huntress, Male can be Upgrade to Merchant, Fisher, Healer. etc.you can train directly all. but may be more cheaper convert to other useful unit.(i know its Micromanaging but its optional in gameplay) Edited December 19, 2012 by Lion.Kanzen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos_Ruler Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I fully agree. The fact that some warriors are female and that male soldiers can do economic tasks doesn't solve the sexism issue, IMHO. The lack of male non-soldiers citizen in every civ (not only the civs that practised military service, like Romans) still suggests that men are made for war, and it's a bit disturbing. We should be very vigilant with this.Erm, but in ancient times men were made for war. Are you really disturbed by this or? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shield Bearer Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I don't think sexism is an issue at all. Every male citizen was called to arms when the country needed it, especially so in the ancient times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 hey, change a little the topic, we get a Female Celts an range Attack for hunt?https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtAjpsidA2x_XT5HiEF5b5VDWLueXmViA-Ic_tq-xsRaL2OjF5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeru Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Erm, but in ancient times men were made for war. Are you really disturbed by this or?Even in cultures that went to war often, men could spend a whole lifetime not going to war and just doing economic tasks, raising a family and doing other generally good things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shield Bearer Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 But if they're own village were under attack, who would most likely do the fighting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMST Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I saw this topic and was all for it, so have some Male Citizens!Erm, but in ancient times men were made for war. Are you really disturbed by this or?No person is "made" for war. Not even in ancient times, except maybe Spartans. And even here I think the ancient records that we have (Athenians, mostly!) exaggerate highly.Civilian men were either drafted or fought willingly for their city/kingdom/empire/whatever, yes, and it works great for skirmish mode in this game. But for more specialised situations in a scenario, it would be nice to have some free men that are not soldiers. Farmers, craftsmen and the like. Yes, they would become soldiers in times of war. But not everyone of them and not all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shield Bearer Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I saw this topic and was all for it, so have some Male Citizens!No person is "made" for war. Not even in ancient times, except maybe Spartans. And even here I think the ancient records that we have (Athenians, mostly!) exaggerate highly.Civilian men were either drafted or fought willingly for their city/kingdom/empire/whatever, yes, and it works great for skirmish mode in this game. But for more specialised situations in a scenario, it would be nice to have some free men that are not soldiers. Farmers, craftsmen and the like. Yes, they would become soldiers in times of war. But not everyone of them and not all the time.Indeed, that's why in 0 AD you can CHOOSE who you want to send to war and who you want to stay and do economical tasks And they don't fight all the time either But, I guess it would be nice to have civilians for scenarios and all that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Indeed, that's why in 0 AD you can CHOOSE who you want to send to war and who you want to stay and do economical tasks And they don't fight all the time either But, I guess it would be nice to have civilians for scenarios and all that civilian: embassadors, philosophers, kings.KINGS for regicide like AOK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idanwin Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 not kings, rulers ;-)regicide is a definite must! (in my opinion)what would ambassadors do? Just a scenario unit?Philosophers could boost research rates? or morale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 not kings, rulers ;-)regicide is a definite must! (in my opinion)what would ambassadors do? Just a scenario unit?Philosophers could boost research rates? or morale? Scenarios units. but kings(Rulers).may be a new type of mode Catch the all "Old men" like Relics mode but you have to busted all, like Archimides, Hypatia of Alexandria, Cicero. etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvangennip Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Apart from realism I would think that having non-military male units could be confusing for players. Now, male units are always usable for combative tasks, building military structures, and so on. A pure civilian male cannot do that, leading to confusion because they look the same to citizen-soldiers (who hide their shield and weapon when gathering or mining).So I'd say don't do it unless these units are clearly distinguishable, e.g. have luxurious clothes or a crown or anything that sets them apart. Edited December 20, 2012 by dvangennip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Apart from realism I would think that having non-military male units could be confusing for players. Now, male units are always usable for combative tasks, building military structures, and so on. A pure civilian male cannot do that, leading to confusion because they look the same to citizen-soldiers (who hide their shield and weapon when gathering or mining.) could be have a naked torso or a some kind of hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMST Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 IIndeed, that's why in 0 AD you can CHOOSE who you want to send to war and who you want to stay and do economical tasks And they don't fight all the time either But, I guess it would be nice to have civilians for scenarios and all that I did state quite clearly that I like the mechanic in the skirmish mode, but would like to have civilians for scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos_Ruler Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Citizen-Soldiers are the male citizens; men are already represented in economic roles. So, while I think it's fine to have "male" citizens for scenarios and screenshots and whatnot, I don't think skirmish/random maps should have them by default. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeru Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Citizen-Soldiers are the male citizens; men are already represented in economic roles. So, while I think it's fine to have "male" citizens for scenarios and screenshots and whatnot, I don't think skirmish/random maps should have them by default.Sounds like a fair compromise. Maybe someone will make a feminist mod of 0 A.D. someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Sounds like a fair compromise. Maybe someone will make a feminist mod of 0 A.D. someday. in Britons society the female and male role are too similar. that i see female huntress civilian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not a Spartan Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 IMO men are already quite well represented in the game already (in other words, as overrepresented as they were historically ).As some mentioned, most young men in those days were probably expected to take up arms if need be. If we do have male citizens, we'd probably need to make them come in 'wealthy', 'entertainer/public servant' and 'elderly' classes only. (with the differences being purely cosmetic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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