===[COMMITTED]=== Mauryan Structures

[historic_bruno]

When they cut through the rock, they designed it like they would've done with wood, or other materiels.

That seems to be the popular inference The same way a fantasy artist could draw amazing structures that never existed in reality, but look feasibly constructed of wood, stone, etc. To me the only difference is one form of art uses paper/canvas and the other is rock-cut caves. Very impressive rock-cut caves, I would consider them a great achievement of the Mauryans. It seems more probable that Mauryan architecture imitated the caves to some extent, not vice versa, and in practice they would be constrained by physics and architectural knowledge. The extant Mauryan structures that I've seen are much less grand than the cave art (I can't prove the reason for this, maybe they are simply lost to time)

[lilstewie]

^^^^^^^^^^^

Then you guys have to use the architectural designs shown in the reliefs more than the rock cut. And also the sets in the chanakya show which uses those reliefs as a reference.

I've posted a lot here. Scattered.

http://www.wildfireg...ic=16056&st=300

Edited September 22, 2012 by lilstewie

[zoot]

For example here's the wooden design below.

What is the source for this image? Maybe it could add some useful context...

[lilstewie]

The extant Mauryan structures that I've seen are much less grand than the cave art (I can't prove the reason for this, maybe they are simply lost to time)

They're all lost to time. These buildings in these reliefs(spoiler) certainly existed at one point, but we have no evidence 2000+ years later. Maybe when India and Indians starts caring a little more about these things they can find it.

Like I said if these reliefs, rock cuts didn't exist up to now we would be completely clueless.

village life below(?)

Edited September 22, 2012 by lilstewie

[Enrique]

Then should I stick more to the wooden-structure style, keep the fortress design with the suggested changes, or try a different fortress layout?

There are any other building that looks out of place or weird?

Someone with drawing skills wants to throw some designs? It'd make modelling process faster

[lilstewie]

Instead of a grand looking arch. Maybe using designs like this, I don't know. The top part.

They're not forts, but maybe incorporate the top part into it?

You'll have to use your imagination. These reliefs are always religious in nature. Showing Buddha's life and stuff. So military stuff is left out for the most part.

Edited September 22, 2012 by lilstewie

[lilstewie]

What is the source for this image? Maybe it could add some useful context...

The rock-cut chaityas represent a variant form of a tradition that was usually implemented using wood or brick. The evidence for that comes from the very nature of the structure with its beams. A conjectured wooden chaityagriha is shown in Figure 5. The mature temple is thus an organic development of the Vedic tradition. Further evidence for wooden structures is provided by a painting from Ajanta given in Figure 6.

http://www.nandhi.com/temple1.htm

[lilstewie]

The same way a fantasy artist could draw amazing structures that never existed in reality

I'm not so sure about this.

They have found ruins of an 80 pillared hall from the Mauryan times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumhrar

Is it so hard to imagine it could have looked similar to the rock cuts?? With a grand arch like the one in the cave art??

However, I haven't seen such arches in the reliefs, but they could be feasible.

They laid the beams just like they would have done with wood.

Edited September 22, 2012 by lilstewie

[zoot]

http://www.nandhi.com/temple1.htm

"Figure 5. A conjectural reconstruction of a wooden chaityagriha (from Percy Brown’s Indian Architecture, 1942)"

Percy Brown apparently is a scholar of Buddhist architecture, so though the idea is described as "conjectural", it can't be too far-fetched (assuming the page quotes him correctly etc.)

[lilstewie]

With a grand arch like the one in the cave art??

I take this back. From an image I've seen, such thick arches didnt even exist in the Mauryan times.

Edited September 22, 2012 by lilstewie

[Enrique]

I had some time today at work and I made another tower sketch, this time following placeholder shape:

[Mythos_Ruler]

Not bad. I think the roof should face the same way as the door though. That would be my preference. I also think the white-wash walls could have some more detail in the textures. Not so clean. These buildings exist in a tropical environment after all.

[historic_bruno]

Not bad. I think the roof should face the same way as the door though. That would be my preference. I also think the white-wash walls could have some more detail in the textures. Not so clean. These buildings exist in a tropical environment after all.

What about having vines or something in the texture? Like one of the Roman buildings I recall has a vine on it. Or moss, everything is alive in tropical climates

[Mythos_Ruler]

What about having vines or something in the texture? Like one of the Roman buildings I recall has a vine on it. Or moss, everything is alive in tropical climates

Yeah, vines and moss would look nice, as well as mold and mildew at the bottom edges near the ground.

[Enrique]

Sure thing, I'll add imperfections to the textures and props/pretty things to the buildings.

But for now I just wanted to have a bunch of structures or sketches to check if I need more colors/textures and if they feel "mauryan" enough placed together

That's why I'm posting so often, I want to be sure the architecture style fits and I'm not going off bounds when designing the structure.

Thanks for your feedback btw guys

[Enrique]

I've been really busy this days, but here's new update.

Another fortress sketch attempt. I'm not really sure if the starting layout I thought is working, so maybe it's time to start drawing some sketches before modelling. I'm not an awesome drawer but I think I'll save time and work this way. (render with AO) Anyway I think it's time to focus on the texture instead of designing... ^^

[Mythos_Ruler]

Looks really awesome, actually. Very unique and distinguishable from other factions. Perhaps some balconies on the sides as well, for "archers" to fire from. Unless anyone else has any objections, I'd say stick with this direction for the Fortress.

[feneur]

Why would you want to change that? I'll leave it to those with more knowledge about the history to comment on that, but from a purely aesthetic point of view that's great Looks both powerful and refined at the same time I really like the "progression" over the squarish crenelations on the Roman/Greek/Carthaginian towers/walls/fortresses, the triangles of the Persian ones, and the "stepped triangles" of this Mauryan fortress, so I would at least want to see that in a new design if you decide to change the overall layout

[dvangennip]

I've been really busy this days, but here's new update.

Another fortress sketch attempt. I'm not really sure if the starting layout I thought is working, so maybe it's time to start drawing some sketches before modelling. I'm not an awesome drawer but I think I'll save time and work this way. (render with AO) Anyway I think it's time to focus on the texture instead of designing... ^^

I think it looks very good. I can't say anything about its historical accuracy, but I did notice that it is planned to train chariot units. Maybe I am nitpicking but the door seems a bit small for a chariot? I know no building and units in 0 A.D. are meant to be to scale, so feel free to ignore me The Greek fortress has very wide doors, but the Roman one has not. So perhaps just do what looks good.

Edited October 2, 2012 by dvangennip

[Enrique]

You are right! nice catch!

I didn't think on that. I'll make the changes on the front door

[lilstewie]

Cool, Dvangennip makes a good point. Are elephants being trained there as well?

Historically Indian forts would have large gates to accommodate elephant movement. Some times they would have spikes to deter siege elephants. Idk, if that design was used then though.

Above are medieval, but I'm sure large gates were used in ancient India as well.

Gates, with chariots, elephants, etc entering/exiting the city. Seems large back then as well.

Edited October 2, 2012 by lilstewie

[lilstewie]

What do you guys think about the spikes on medieval Indian forts??(Against siege elephants) These are very common, but these examples are from medieval forts that survive.

I can't tell you for sure if they used them back then, but it seems like a good idea back then. With India's long history of using elephants in battle.

Edited October 3, 2012 by lilstewie

[Enrique]

Cool, Dvangennip makes a good point. Are elephants being trained there as well?

Historically Indian forts would have large gates to accommodate elephant movement. Some times they would have spikes to deter siege elephants. Idk, if that design was used then though.

Nice Idea! I like it. I'll make a big arch and search for a texture similar to that doors and add those spikes. Thanks guys!

[lilstewie]

Nice Idea! I like it. I'll make a big arch and search for a texture similar to that doors and add those spikes. Thanks guys!

Don't make the doors an arch like on those medieval forts though. That's Persian influence.

These arches types you see here are Persian influenced.<---- Afghans and the Mughals who were in the beginning Turko-Mongols came to India as Persianized-Turko-Mongols. They spread Persian influences in India in the medieval period.

Persian type

I think what you have is good.

Rectangular door with Mauryan arch above. This is indigenous.

indigenous

Rectangular door with the Indian arch above.

Edited October 2, 2012 by lilstewie

[MishFTW]

The fort looks awesome Enrique

And lilstewie, those are some nice references. Lets avoid the Persian style influences, they came much later. A clear unique style is already emerging for the Mauryans in-game