WhiteTreePaladin Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Paraphrasing still requires citation. It just doesn't need the quotation marks. All academic institutions I've attended consider paraphrasing without citation as full plagiarism. It is a very serious issue. I do agree that in our case it is more of an ethical issue than a legal one, but I do feel we should hold ourselves to that standard.As has been mentioned before, I do think the corrections can wait until alpha 12. The nature of our project doesn't make it super urgent. [Edit] The design document should have had sources also, but considering it is really for internal use and not distribution, it isn't as big of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos_Ruler Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Paraphrasing still requires citation. It just doesn't need the quotation marks. [citation needed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoot Posted September 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) Paraphrasing still requires citation. It just doesn't need the quotation marks. All academic institutions I've attended consider paraphrasing without citation as full plagiarism. It is a very serious issue. I do agree that in our case it is more of an ethical issue than a legal one, but I do feel we should hold ourselves to that standard.As has been mentioned before, I do think the corrections can wait until alpha 12. The nature of our project doesn't make it super urgent. Let's be sure to keep those two things apart. Whether or not 0 A.D. should live up to scholarly standards can be discussed, but abiding by the law IMO is indispensable. Edited September 10, 2012 by zoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeru Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MishFTW Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 @zoot you know what I meant... Adding something similar to "Source:Wikipedia" is easier than just rewriting or rewording the whole thing. But then again its not a legal issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoot Posted September 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 @zoot you know what I meant... Actually, I didn't You seemed to be saying that we need to cite sources if we use someone's original analysis. People seem frustrated enough with copyright law as it is, so I wanted to make clear that citing sources is not an additional area we need to be paranoid about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTreePaladin Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 [citation needed]No offense, but I really thought you had attended a university. It is stressed very strongly in all the university student policy handbooks I've come across. I don't mind providing a source though: http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/563/02/Again, we can fix it when it's convenient, so there's no hurry needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos_Ruler Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 No offense, but I really thought you had attended a university. It is stressed very strongly in all the university student policy handbooks I've come across. I don't mind providing a source though: http://owl.english.p...esource/563/02/Again, we can fix it when it's convenient, so there's no hurry needed.Of course I attended a university. Anyway, we are not a scholarly publication, nor are we a term paper. We don't need to attribute the World Book Encyclopedia Volume 'G' because I read it once and gleaned some facts from it for 0 A.D. But I agree with Zoot that this is a separate question from one of legality and we need to steer back to that discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTreePaladin Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 I honestly didn't know if you had attended or not. Most people don't.I would argue that we are trying to be more scholarly considering our history articles and other goals. In other words, if someone wanted to know about the historical accuracy of some game element, I would think we should be able to readily say.Maybe we don't really care as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majapahit Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 obey the rules...............when necessary... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeru Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I honestly didn't know if you had attended or not. Most people don't.I would argue that we are trying to be more scholarly considering our history articles and other goals. In other words, if someone wanted to know about the historical accuracy of some game element, I would think we should be able to readily say.Maybe we don't really care as much.Our historical articles, written by our history dept., were never properly cited AFAIK, and neither were the design documents.So this is a possible point of improvement from now on for any future history & documentation contributors.---Any more legal stuff that we have to attend to?Does anyone know of any free automatic plagiarism detectors to help us with this task?We will treat any case with extreme seriousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historic_bruno Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substantial_similarityIf this is true, then our entire Design Document should be riddled with Wikipedia citations.Hopefully not Wikipedia, but scholarly sources (books, journals, etc.) It would actually add a lot to our documents if citations were provided, for one thing it would remove doubt in the reader's mind that what we say is accurate (we rely on many obscure details that aren't common knowledge); it would make it much easier for someone to extend past research if, say, certain details were omitted; and it would clarify that we got the idea from e.g. Wikipedia and not they from us. It's not even hard assuming that when we write such documents we actually do use sources and aren't making this stuff up I wouldn't advise going through the design document retroactively to add citations, it's probably not possible anyway, but going forward it's a good practice. The simplest approach is to just stick a list of references at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoot Posted September 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Any more legal stuff that we have to attend to?I'm sure there's lots It's a bit like cleaning spam, isn't it - it's a process, not a job that ever really gets done.One thing I thought of are the fonts in the game - where were they drawn from? I see no licensing info in the fonts dir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myconid Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 All the relevant font licenses and required files are located in this directory. Are there any real licensing issues to attend to, or are we just trying to make repo maintainers nervous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoot Posted September 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 All the relevant font licenses and required files are located in this directory. Are there any real licensing issues to attend to, or are we just trying to make repo maintainers nervous? I'm sure repo maintainers much prefer being nervous and safe over intimidating anyone who raises their concerns into silence and being unsafe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcxSanya Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 All the relevant font licenses and required files are located in this directory. Are there any real licensing issues to attend to, or are we just trying to make repo maintainers nervous? I think it is ok to recheck things, especially when something is not totally clear. In this particular case we can add something like this into LICENSE.txt:/binaries/data/mods/public/fontsFiles in this directory generated by fontbuilder2 tool (source/tools/fontbuilder2/) from fonts in binaries/data/tools/fontbuilder/fonts/binaries/data/tools/fontbuilder/fonts/Various - see LICENSE.txt within that directory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoot Posted December 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16690&st=80#entry256649Hey LordGood, If you haven't time to texture them, feel free to post the buildings you've already finished and I'll texture them.By the way, your defense tower is already in-game. Update SVN and take a look I wonder if LordGood has ever given permission for this? He does not appear to have submitted the regular art contributors form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 http://www.wildfireg...=80#entry256649I wonder if LordGood has ever given permission for this? He does not appear to have submitted the regular art contributors form.he is very fast 3d modeler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enrique Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 http://www.wildfireg...=80#entry256649I wonder if LordGood has ever given permission for this? He does not appear to have submitted the regular art contributors form.We moved the art development forum to public in order to skip the applicant form submission and let the people start working on 3D assets for the game directly on the open tasks.However, at the top of the Art Department forum a note, remainder or pinned post like "please read this before contributing" explaining the license needed to get 3D assets into the game would be useful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoot Posted December 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 We moved the art development forum to public in order to skip the applicant form submission and let the people start working on 3D assets for the game directly on the open tasks.Yes, I'm not really questioning anyone. Just pointing out that it is problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeru Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 However, at the top of the Art Department forum a note, remainder or pinned post like "please read this before contributing" explaining the license needed to get 3D assets into the game would be usefulDone. (I want to add illustrations later, though.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoot Posted December 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Done. (I want to add illustrations later, though.)Perhaps the waiver should say something to the effect of "all original works uploaded to this forum, past and future"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoot Posted December 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Would it be feasible to restrict posting access to the art development forum to users who have 'signed' the waiver only? Or would it require a lot of administration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enrique Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Done. (I want to add illustrations later, though.)Nicely done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeru Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 zoot, I think it is an easier system if someone with upload access to the codebase, who wants to upload a contributor's work, makes sure to search in the thread to verify that the contributor has signed the waiver before uploading any of their works.Perhaps the waiver should say something to the effect of "all original works uploaded to this forum, past and future"?Thanks, I now added something very close to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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