Previewing a map in the game setup screen.

[Yves]

Hmm all those design concepts lack the chat which also uses a lot of space.

Probably we should make the map and the description tabbed or we could use a dropdown for map selection.

[Yves]

Here's a new concept including the chat.

The map description can either be moved into a seperate tab or kept where it is. I think it would be better in a tab because then all information about the map would be at the same location and we could use the space on the left.

Note: The resolution is 1024x768 which is the lowest we support as far as I know... and it works.

What do you think? Did I miss something?

[Zeta1127]

I really like Yves' latest version, because it uses space the best and provides a lot of useful information.

[Yves]

F00, quantumstate and I had a discussion on irc about the designs:

http://irclogs.wildf...-%230ad-dev.log

Here some other versions we discussed:

http://i.minus.com/jEbnXPvZsp1Xu.jpg

https://i.minus.com/jhx5se5yW1WST.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.co...28_00-18-11.png

http://i.minus.com/iUsM0hazsTbdv.png

I think we agreed that the last version is the best.

[historic_bruno]

Why not in the bottom left corner, where the description is now? The other layouts disrupt everthing at 1024x768.

Alternative 1 - description is moved into an info tooltip over the map preview:

Alternative 2 - description is dislayed above (or below) map preview. In this case the map list shrinks somewhat at 1024x768, but gets expanded for everyone else, so the difference should not be noticeable:

Obviously I'm a big fan of creative, artistically selected map previews While it's slightly more work, it will give an impression that an automatically generated or whole map screenshot could never provide. I think it's nicer not to show the players everything before they start, that's what exploration is for, right? We could think of map previews as showing the most important feature(s) of the map and some of the biome(s).

Here's the preview I chose for Punjab 1, it took me about a minute to make it, an artist could probably do better:

[Mythos_Ruler]

Bruno's layout is much improved over the others. Though, I just think the whole thing needs redesigned and the map selection happen in a different screen. The current way tries to jam everything, including CHAT, into one layout and it doesn't work very well, IMHO.

[wraitii]

Yeah, the most simple solution in the end would probably be to have two screens. That would also allow to show some small informations about civilizations (I'm thinking AoE II did that).

[Yves]

Why not in the bottom left corner, where the description is now? The other layouts disrupt everthing at 1024x768.

Actually the other layout mockups are at 1024x768 and I don't think they look "disrupted".

But I like your layouts and would even say they are a bit better.

I'd probably prefer alternative 1 because I think only few people read the descriptions. Even if they do, they won't do it every time they setup a match.

Obviously I'm a big fan of creative, artistically selected map previews While it's slightly more work, it will give an impression that an automatically generated or whole map screenshot could never provide. I think it's nicer not to show the players everything before they start, that's what exploration is for, right? We could think of map previews as showing the most important feature(s) of the map and some of the biome(s).

Agreed. The question is if there will ever be selectable starting positions on the map preview.

I think that's something that enhances the possibilities of multiplayer matches a lot.

In this case it's probably also a bit inconvenient to have the preview on the bottom right because it would not just be a preview but also a control.

Though, I just think the whole thing needs redesigned and the map selection happen in a different screen.

I would try to avoid that even if it might look a little bit crowded on the screen. I think the most important purpose of the match setup screen is to show all important information at one place.

[Spahbod]

Obviously I'm a big fan of creative, artistically selected map previews While it's slightly more work, it will give an impression that an automatically generated or whole map screenshot could never provide. I think it's nicer not to show the players everything before they start, that's what exploration is for, right? We could think of map previews as showing the most important feature(s) of the map and some of the biome(s).

I like them too. But I think we should only make such previews for scenarios. Random maps, are "random" maps. We can show them a single river for "Rivers" random map but undoubtedly he could guess that the map is somehow related to rivers. They would probably want to know the whole layout of the map to see if they want to play it or not.

Agreed. The question is if there will ever be selectable starting positions on the map preview.

I think that's something that enhances the possibilities of multiplayer matches a lot.

In this case it's probably also a bit inconvenient to have the preview on the bottom right because it would not just be a preview but also a control.

I agree with you. Nearly all of the games that have such an option place the preview in the top of the screen.

[Spahbod]

Well, I did some experiments and found out that it is much better to separate the map selection and the player assignment. Here is the result:

There are a lot of empty areas in single player mode that can be filled with the player's selected faction info, emblem and other such stuff. I think we should separate the two as it would be hard and confusing to have everything in one place.

[Yves]

Well, I did some experiments and found out that it is much better to separate the map selection and the player assignment.

Well, actually the map SELECTION could really be separated. I mean the other players joining the game don't care about all the GUI-Controls used for selecting the map because only the host can select a map.

But I still think that the other settings like "fixed teams" and "reveal map" should be visible in the main match setup window and also which map got selected by the host. That's information the other players care about and they should immediately notice if the host changes such settings without having to go through submenus.

[Spahbod]

Well, actually the map SELECTION could really be separated. I mean the other players joining the game don't care about all the GUI-Controls used for selecting the map because only the host can select a map.

But I still think that the other settings like "fixed teams" and "reveal map" should be visible in the main match setup window and also which map got selected by the host. That's information the other players care about and they should immediately notice if the host changes such settings without having to go through submenus.

Hopefully they'll understand which map is selected by the host because I coded it (although I couldn't test it). But now after a little thinking, I agree that we should place the game options somewhere it that it could always be seen.

Edit: The game's main menu music is so good that I can't properly work on GUI because I want to hear it to the end every time I am testing something. Omri really deserves a big thumbs up.

[Spahbod]

My latest experiments:

We will certainly add more options to the game but I am thinking of adding a decorative image to the canter of that blank space.

[wraitii]

I like the first concept. You can put the chatbox in the middle, and by ditching the preview box, and replacing it with the map selection, you'll have everything at once (the preview can probably go in the little tooltip that Bruno did on one of his concepts.).

BTW, it would be nice to remove the "number of players" options. Instead, I'd rather have a "+" button behind the players, which when clicked would add a player, and a small red cross in front of each player to remove it. I think it'd be less tedious.

[Spahbod]

I like the first concept. You can put the chatbox in the middle, and by ditching the preview box, and replacing it with the map selection, you'll have everything at once (the preview can probably go in the little tooltip that Bruno did on one of his concepts.).

BTW, it would be nice to remove the "number of players" options. Instead, I'd rather have a "+" button behind the players, which when clicked would add a player, and a small red cross in front of each player to remove it. I think it'd be less tedious.

Technically, all of them are from the same concept and are direct screenshots from the game.

[feneur]

Edit: The game's main menu music is so good that I can't properly work on GUI because I want to hear it to the end every time I am testing something. Omri really deserves a big thumbs up.

You can always go to the Bandcamp page (http://play0ad.bandcamp.com/) and have that play while you work

[Spahbod]

The code is commented and ready to be committed now. Rearrangement is still possible. We need to decide on this. What should we do?

[Yves]

I think this still needs some more work on the concept.

1. The main window lacks the chat.

2. Some of the settings are on both screens and the purpose of both screens doesn't seem to be clearly defined. I think some of them (like "teams locked") don't belong to the map selection screen.

3. There are some things that don't look very good (like the chat window on the map selection screen or the settings on the main screen). I mean just visually... they might be right there for the functional aspect.

[Spahbod]

I think this still needs some more work on the concept.

1. The main window lacks the chat.

2. Some of the settings are on both screens and the purpose of both screens doesn't seem to be clearly defined. I think some of them (like "teams locked") don't belong to the map selection screen.

3. There are some things that don't look very good (like the chat window on the map selection screen or the settings on the main screen). I mean just visually... they might be right there for the functional aspect.

1. It doesn't. The two first pictures are from single player matches and the last one from multiplayer.

2. I agree with you on that it doesn't belong there. But otherwise the page would look empty.

3. How about bringing the options panel to the center of the screen? Similar to the way it is right now in the game?

[Sonarpulse]

Off Topic, but I noticed that in the screenshot with the Nile map, it said the river divides the map into north and south halves. Seeing that the Nile is a mainly north-south river wouldn't saying it divides the map into east and west halves make more sense? The river is vertical in the preview too.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Sonarpulse

[historic_bruno]

Though, I just think the whole thing needs redesigned and the map selection happen in a different screen. The current way tries to jam everything, including CHAT, into one layout and it doesn't work very well, IMHO.

Random/scenario/campaign could be selected from the main menu, before getting to game setup. I wouldn't mind hiding the full map list in a dropdown or new window. There's clearly some wasted space in multiplayer because only the host can choose the map (currently) but we display the list for everyone. If we have a map preview, it would still be nice for all players to see it and the description, so they could ask the host for a different map if it looks terrible. Not sure how valuable that is in practice

I like them too. But I think we should only make such previews for scenarios. Random maps, are "random" maps. We can show them a single river for "Rivers" random map but undoubtedly he could guess that the map is somehow related to rivers. They would probably want to know the whole layout of the map to see if they want to play it or not.

True, random maps are different because of that unknown factor, but the details on most of our maps look terrible when zoomed out. They aren't as presentable as Mythos' examples: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15562#alpinevalleys

If you mean showing a preview of the actual map to be played, that's problematic because map generation is very slow. Who wants to wait 10-15s for a normal sized map to preview (some maps are much slower) and that's on a fast new computer A single representative image would be sufficient IMO...

[Spahbod]

If you mean showing a preview of the actual map to be played, that's problematic because map generation is very slow. Who wants to wait 10-15s for a normal sized map to preview (some maps are much slower) and that's on a fast new computer A single representative image would be sufficient IMO...

No. I never meant this.

Off Topic, but I noticed that in the screenshot with the Nile map, it said the river divides the map into north and south halves. Seeing that the Nile is a mainly north-south river wouldn't saying it divides the map into east and west halves make more sense? The river is vertical in the preview too.

That was for old times when the river was horizontal. Fixed it. Thanks.

How about these?

Single Player:

Multiplayer

[gudo]

Latest version is good, I like it.

[zoot]

Looks very clean in the overall organization. I like it too.

[Zeta1127]

I also like it.