Wall Creation

[oshron]

Hmm, I would be very surprised if they would dull their axes by hacking away at a stone wall. Either way, for gameplay reasons it's better to separate unit roles a bit, so you have to use all kinds of units to properly defeat your enemy. Not giving ordinary soldiers the ability to attack walls should also make walls more worth building, since the enemy will have to use siege weapons to take them down. And siege weapons are both more expensive and slower, so the walls will actually make some difference since the enemy can't just throw a bunch of ordinary units against them

We do intend to include such a feature yeah, it is not included yet though.

personally, i think it would be good to have some special "siege infantry" included; for example, i designed my mythology mod's ancient egyptians as having axemen with a bonus against buildings because they really WOULD sometimes take axes to the doors of temples and break them down

[vts]

100% agree to remove the SHIFT key for continuing walls. With the left/right click it requires no instructions and everyone can find it;

The shift-key is also used to give multiple commands, build multiple buildings, build multiple units, so it is entirely consistent for the shift key to also allow you to place multiple walls. I don't see the point in removing it.

I noticed that foundations are larger than the actual wall (continuing over the limiting towers);

This is actually only the case for the palisades, which originally weren't intended to be included in the game. They will be updated soon.

I like the "snap" to connect a wall to another with a tower. However, also due to previous issue, I was able to create a wall with two tower very near one to the other. Interestingly, the space between them was to low to let units pass through, but, funnily, my units and enemy units could fight in between ! Maybe it just would better to use a higher "snap" distance to avoid these "holes";

Do you have a screenshot illustrating the problem? It's not quite clear to me what the problem is exactly.

it would be nice to have an indicator somewhat that let you know if the wall are "connected" (either with walls only or also with mountains).

What would you suggest as an indicator?

[vts]

he means the units dont pass between Canyon, cliff, montain etc and a wall structure, the wall must close or blend with a clift.

I understand that, but I mean, what kind of visual indicator would you suggest? Like a highlight, an outline, a glow, ...?

[feneur]

personally, i think it would be good to have some special "siege infantry" included; for example, i designed my mythology mod's ancient egyptians as having axemen with a bonus against buildings because they really WOULD sometimes take axes to the doors of temples and break them down

I would say that's included in the capturing of buildings we intend to include

About using shift: I played a bit, and I guess it works. It does feel a bit awkward to have to use a modifier key to keep building what to me is one building (or structure rather, but that's not really the point), but I'd say we can keep it as is for Alpha 10 and see what people think about it and so on for a while.

[FeXoR]

I would say that's included in the capturing of buildings we intend to include

About using shift: I played a bit, and I guess it works. It does feel a bit awkward to have to use a modifier key to keep building what to me is one building (or structure rather, but that's not really the point), but I'd say we can keep it as is for Alpha 10 and see what people think about it and so on for a while.

I agree but ATM I feel like building further automatically and break with right would be the way to go. But I think both makes sense.

[Mythos_Ruler]

I could see it turning green to signify that it has been "snapped" to something, like another wall tower or a cliff face.

[plumo]

IMO 0 AD should be completely playable without having to use the keyboard ( mouse only).

Hotkeys are for multiplayer / pros

I like to be able to build everything / drag walls with mouse only.

[Enrique]

IMO 0 AD should be completely playable without having to use the keyboard ( mouse only).

Hotkeys are for multiplayer / pros

I like to be able to build everything / drag walls with mouse only.

Actually, you can. You just have to hit the build wall button again with your mouse and continue the wall

I don't see the point why the shift key is so annoying when building walls, I think it's quite intuitive due to the functionality that already has like "multiple" modifier as vts pointed earlier. Probably my most-used hotkey (until "center camera to last event" is implemented )

[Android_]

I don't see the point why the shift key is so annoying when building walls, I think it's quite intuitive due to the functionality that already has like "multiple" modifier as vts pointed earlier. Probably my most-used hotkey

The thing is that it's redundant. You could just build walls in different directions using left-clicks - then cancel with a right-click, as always. Less effort than holding Shift throughout the process. Less effort > redundancy, so these guys do have a point. We should not stick to the Age conventions like glue if they don't really make sense

[General Octavian]

But if you have a apple mouse, you can't use left and right clicks at same time.

[FeXoR]

But if you have a apple mouse, you can't use left and right clicks at same time.

You don't need to click left and right at the same time. Left click on build button, left click at start of the wall, left click on end of the first wall part and beginning of the second, left click on the end of the second wall part and the beginning of the 3rd, continue until you are finished, right click to break up. I still don't mind if shift has to be pressed or it's build further as default.

What I mind (though a little off topic) is that placing a new building foundation with the shift key pressed shouldn't actually send the selected units there if they already got a build command. Just the foundation should be placed and the units should continue finishing the foundation they are send to/working at already.

Edited May 9, 2012 by FeXoR

[feneur]

That sounds like an issue with the apple mouse, not with 0 A.D. In either case, there's no need to use them at the same time. You'd click with the left mouse button to place either the end-point of the wall, or a corner, then move the mouse (not having the left mouse button pressed), and either click the left mouse button to place a new corner/endpoint or the right to cancel

[vts]

The thing is that it's redundant. You could just build walls in different directions using left-clicks - then cancel with a right-click, as always. Less effort than holding Shift throughout the process. Less effort > redundancy, so these guys do have a point. We should not stick to the Age conventions like glue if they don't really make sense

Coming back somewhat on my last comment, I think less effort to do something is a sensible reason, but the shift-clicking does have the advantage of having consistent semantics to those of creating units and regular buildings. I suppose it depends on how much you value consistency in the controls over speed of operation. I'll play around with a non-shift-clicked version locally and see if it makes a noticeable difference.

[feneur]

Coming back somewhat on my last comment, I think less effort to do something is a sensible reason, but the shift-clicking does have the advantage of having consistent semantics to those of creating units and regular buildings. I suppose it depends on how much you value consistency in the controls over speed of operation. I'll play around with a non-shift-clicked version locally and see if it makes a noticeable difference.

Well, I guess it depends on whether you see walls as one building or several joined together If it's just one it makes sense to be able to continue building without having to press the shift key, if it's several it makes sense to have to press the shift key to keep building. It would make sense if you would be able to use the shift key to "start a new wall". I.e. pressing shift would cancel the last piece of the wall you're building and allow you to start a new stretch of wall that isn't connected to the previously built wall pieces. (Which incidentally would be extra useful now before walls are implemented )

[Zeta1127]

This isn't exactly related to walls, but why can't one queue up units from multiple selected unit productions structures of the same type at the same time?

Edited May 10, 2012 by Zeta1127

[Mythos_Ruler]

This isn't exactly related to walls, but why can't one cue units for multiple selected unit productions structures of the same type at the same time?

You can do this in the SVN version of the game (and of course, the upcoming Alpha 10).

[feneur]

Btw, Michael, what is your intention for the Spartans? Should they have walls or not? In a reply on Moddb you say they shouldn't, but someone in IRC (I can't recall who at the moment) said when I brought the issue up there that you might have said something about their women being able to build walls or something.

[Zeta1127]

You can do this in the SVN version of the game (and of course, the upcoming Alpha 10).

Excellent, Alpha 10 is looking more amazing every day, first a proper wall building system, then a basic implementation of technology, and now small tweaks like that.