Milk

[samgj]

Could corraled female animals be milked to gain food without slaughtering but it would provide less food and take longer?

Edited December 4, 2011 by samgj

[hhyloc]

I believe this is possible, but I don't think it'll worth the effort. Also, corraled animals will eventually provide a steady source of food and don't have to be killed.

[feneur]

Could corraled female animals be milked to gain food without slaughtering but it would provide less food and take longer?

Something like that is the plan yeah We don't necessarily make any difference between male and female animals, but the idea is that you will be able to corral domestic animals (chicken, goats, etc) and get a slow trickle of food. That would symbolize milk, but also eggs and killing off a few every year etc.

[oshron]

yeah, thats how i always understood it, but such actions are only implied. obviously it would be counterproductive to make full animations for a farmer milking a cow, but the idea and action is still there.

jumping off this, though, it would be pretty cool if there were aesthetic objects such as chicken coops

[Mythos_Ruler]

yeah, thats how i always understood it, but such actions are only implied. obviously it would be counterproductive to make full animations for a farmer milking a cow, but the idea and action is still there.

jumping off this, though, it would be pretty cool if there were aesthetic objects such as chicken coops

Yeah, the idea would be that you would garrison your herd animals (goats, cows, sheep, etc.) into the corral to receive this trickle of food, basically just like a relic in AOK/AOM. Some factions can garrison camels and horses and elephants for bonuses specific to these animals.

[oshron]

which makes me wonder: would pigs also give a resource trickle, since they dont really have any "production" value in real life as far as i know; theyre pretty much only used for slaughter, as opposed to cows, goats, and chickens which provide dairy and eggs

[hhyloc]

which makes me wonder: would pigs also give a resource trickle, since they dont really have any "production" value in real life as far as i know; theyre pretty much only used for slaughter, as opposed to cows, goats, and chickens which provide dairy and eggs

Maybe they can be used to find truffles

[feneur]

which makes me wonder: would pigs also give a resource trickle, since they dont really have any "production" value in real life as far as i know; theyre pretty much only used for slaughter, as opposed to cows, goats, and chickens which provide dairy and eggs

I'd say, don't read too much into it =) But if nothing else you can always think of it as killing off some of them/their offspring each year, thus still leaving the same total number of animals but also getting food

[Mythos_Ruler]

which makes me wonder: would pigs also give a resource trickle, since they dont really have any "production" value in real life as far as i know; theyre pretty much only used for slaughter, as opposed to cows, goats, and chickens which provide dairy and eggs

We could make pigs trainable, instead of capturable animals. "Pigs" in the wild would basically be Boars that you hunt (and fight back).

[oshron]

personally, ive liked to think of it along the lines of there being a wild and domestic form for different applicable animals (ex: pig/boar, cattle/aurochs, chicken/gamebird) with the former being more like animals which have happened to wander away from their original owners and already docile enough to be herded back to your own town. in contrast, the wild animals would be pretty much the same as the domestic animals, with the same stats and whatnot, but you can only hunt them (in the case of elephants here, there would be a breeding/wild equivalent instead of domestic/wild)

alternatively, and i think this is what is already planned, each civilization is technically capable of domesticating animals like elephants, but its only enabled for certain civs (like the carthaginians). presumably, then, couldnt this work for other animals? maybe the celts have the unique trait of domesticating wolves to make their warhounds train faster?

and one thing that occurred to me when designing mythical civs for godstorm is that some religions prohibit the consumption of some foods. would such religious dietary limitations come into play in 0ad? (for example, would a hypothetical hindu indian civ not be able to domesticate cattle?)

Edited December 15, 2011 by oshron

[Mythos_Ruler]

and one thing that occurred to me when designing mythical civs for godstorm is that some religions prohibit the consumption of some foods. would such religious dietary limitations come into play in 0ad? (for example, would a hypothetical hindu indian civ not be able to domesticate cattle?)

I think a hypothetical Hindu faction could still capture cattle, but not consume them. Allowing them the ability to still capture them would deprive enemy players from using them. Are Hindus against drinking a cow's milk as well? If not, the Hindu faction could still garrison cattle in their Corral building and gain a trickle of Food.

[Spahbod]

I think a hypothetical Hindu faction could still capture cattle, but not consume them. Allowing them the ability to still capture them would deprive enemy players from using them. Are Hindus against drinking a cow's milk as well? If not, the Hindu faction could still garrison cattle in their Corral building and gain a trickle of Food.

One of the main reasons Hindus consider cows sacred is that they drink it's milk.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Spahbod

[Mythos_Ruler]

One of the main reasons Hindus consider cows sacred is that they drink it's milk.

There we go then.

[Potter]

Are Hindus against drinking a cow's milk as well? If not, the Hindu faction could still garrison cattle in their Corral building and gain a trickle of Food.

Hindus are not against drinking milk, but historically would not like killing cows. So, garrisoning cattle in corral is a good idea

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Maybe they could have cows with longer lifespans. After all Hindus in India have retirement homes for their cows.

[samgj]

I think all civilizations should be able to kill and eat all animals in custom matches, but could restrictions be added in the campaingn.

[Mythos_Ruler]

I think all civilizations should be able to kill and eat all animals in custom matches, but could restrictions be added in the campaingn.

The Hindus could be balanced with a 'Milk' technology that no other factions get. There are options.

[oshron]

personally, i started working it out that such limited civs wouldnt be able to slaughter certain animals for food, but would get a different bonus instead; for a hypothetical israelite civ, for instance, i decided to make one of their defining traits that they cant slaughter all kinds of animals like other civs, but get a very very small favor bonus (its the same mythology mod, godstorm) in exchange, in reference to the kosher diet. presumably, a muslim civ could get the same bonus and hindus a vaguely similar bonus but applying only to cattle

[Argantonius]

Well, I see it being played different depending of the animals:

- Herdable sheep and goats found all over most maps, and created in the corrals of all civilizations.

- Chicken only seem to appear around each player's first civ center and it makes sense because chicken don't usually last much when they get far from humans. I think the Celts historically didn't have/eat them, BTW, so it would make sense if they were the only civ that couldn't make chicken in corrals and started with other animals around the civ center such as sheep or pigs.

- Pigs, meanwhile, only seem to exist in the editor right now, and I suppose they will be introduced as an unit to be created in corrals only (unless encountered in campaigns, of course). I've read something about the Carthaginians having inherited a Phoenician taboo against eating pork so they would be the only civ that can't make pigs. Not sure if the taboo was extended to the wild boar (for the record, some Moroccan Berber communities, while Muslim, consider the wild boar and the pig to be different animals, and hunt and eat wild boar with no problem).

- There are wild horses in some maps and from what I've read the Iberians will have the unique hability to herd them and receive cavalry bonus depending of how many horses they have at one time. No food production unless killed I suppose.

- Not sure if there will even be cattle at all.

- Not sure what they plan for the elephants either. What I would do would be making the Carthaginians and the Persians the only ones capable of herding them, but in a different unique structure, the kheddah, and get cheaper war elephants as a result.

[hhyloc]

- Not sure if there will even be cattle at all.

Not in Part 1 I guess, but in the future we could have Chinese and Indian as faction and then cattle (water buffaloes, cows) would be available.

- Not sure what they plan for the elephants either. What I would do would be making the Carthaginians and the Persians the only ones capable of herding them, but in a different unique structure, the kheddah, and get cheaper war elephants as a result.

According to the wiki article, only the Indian used it so the kheddah should be a structure exclusive to Indians only.

[Mythos_Ruler]

We'll have capturable cattle, sheep, goats, etc. Just haven't implemented the capturing feature yet.

[Argantonius]

We'll have capturable cattle, sheep, goats, etc. Just haven't implemented the capturing feature yet.

Yeah, I later found the design document(s) of Wildfire Games for fauna here. I suppose I should have read the site more closely before I write comments...

I liked specially the planned duality for the aurochs - dangerous males but capturable females. Fits quite well with what we know about the historical behaviour of the animal.

Would you mind if I make a couple of comments about the list of species?

According to the wiki article, only the Indian used it so the kheddah should be a structure exclusive to Indians only.

Well, we know that the Persians and Carthaginians captured elephants and used them for war too, so they had to have the same or something similar. We just don't know what they called it.

[oshron]

Well, we know that the Persians and Carthaginians captured elephants and used them for war too, so they had to have the same or something similar. We just don't know what they called it.

iirc, the carthaginians used the (now extinct) north african forest elephant. presumably, the persians would have used the indian elephant, if for no other reason than that it was the closest species to the central parts of their empire