In-Game Technologies

[oshron]

say, what are some of the technologies that the developers have planned for the game? reading the design document, i only see mention of technology TYPES (aside from unique techs) and not the technologies themselves. i would like to know not only so that i can use them myself in making designs for my mythology mod, but also so that i can give some input. for instance, will there be different options for agricultural technologies, like "Irrigation" for some civs and "Slash-and-Burn Cultivation" for others to add to authenticity, even if each one does virtually the same thing?

[satchitb]

These are some I've thought of (I'm not part of the developmental team, so I have no idea what goes on in their heads ). I'm going in alphabetical order; this could take a while

A

Architecture

Astronomy

B

Barter

Bureaucracy

C

Canals

Cataphracts

Coinage

Composite bows

Concrete

Conscription

D

E

Empire building

Engineering

F

G

Geometry

Glass blowing

H

Hydraulic mining

I

J

K

L

M

Marble work

Medicine

Metallurgy

Mills

Monarchic patronage

N

O

Organised military

P

Parthian tactics

Pedagogy

Philosophy

Q

R

Republicanism/democracy

Rhetoric

S

Scythed chariots

Sharecropping

Slave trade (tricky one this; I wouldn't recommend)

Steelworking

T

Taxation

Theurgy

Town planning

Trade posts

Tribute

U

V

W

Water wheel

Weaving

X

Y

Z

[Pureon]

Could you also list what each of those technologies would do?

Everyone is welcome to post their own tech ideas here too - might be useful for us later

[oshron]

here's some suggestions of mine:

--horticulture: improves the rate at which food is gathered from nature (ie, forage patches, fruit trees)

--pastoralism: improves the rate at which livestock fatten

--slash-and-burn cultivation: greatly improves the rate at which food is gathered from nature and allows citizens to chop down trees faster

--money: reduces the amount of resources you have to pay in the market interface

--divination: improves the line of sight of buildings or units (the designers can decide which)

--irrigation: improves the rate at which food is gathered from fields OR lets you build fields faster OR lets you replant/restore farms faster

--wheeled plow: improves the rate at which food is gathered from fields

--oil lamp: improves the line of sight of buildings

--phalanx: enables the use of phalanx formations by melee infantry soldiers

[satchitb]

Well, to be honest, in most RTS games, there's a very loose relationship between the name of a tech and its effect. They're not attempts at historical accuracy, so please bear that in mind. That said, here are some suggestions.

Architecture- improves the strength of buildings.

Astronomy- tricky one. What DID astronomy contribute to, that we could use in the game. Much like Age of Empires I, we could make it a theistic tech.

Barter- trade bonus, to be researched early in the game.

Bureaucracy- another tricky one. I would probably assign it to upgrading units.

Canals- upgrade to farm productivity.

Cataphracts- allows the player to produce cataphracts

Coinage- trade bonus.

Composite bows- greater accuracy and smaller recharge(?) time for archers.

Concrete- improves the strength of buildings, could probably stack with req. Architecture.

Conscription- increases creation time for military units (possibly only infantry).

Empire building- tricky. Improves heroes possibly.

Engineering- bonus to siege weapons, buildings or any construct really.

Geometry- improves accuracy of ranged attacks.

Glass blowing- tricky. I don't know what this might do.

Hydraulic mining- improves speed/carry for miners.

Marble work- tricky. No idea.

Medicine- improves HP of units.

Metallurgy- improves armour/weapons

Mills- improvements to farming.

Monarchic patronage- special units perform better, possibly.

Organised military- unlocks formations, possibly.

Parthian tactics- reduces recharge(?) time for archers.

Pedagogy- priests and heroes produced faster.

Philosophy- some priest-related bonus here.

Republicanism/democracy- this would require something creative. I don't know how this might be implemented.

Rhetoric- techs researched faster, possibly.

Scythed chariots- chariots (you are implementing chariots, I hope?) do bonus damage whilst taking damage.

Sharecropping- farms produce more.

Slave trade (tricky one this; I wouldn't recommend)- buildings or units cost less, possibly?

Steelworking- Armour/weapons upgrade

Taxation- more favourable prices in the Market

Theurgy- priest upgrade

Town planning- any number of building upgrades can be derived from this.

Trade posts- trade carts and ships move faster.

Tribute- allows tribute.

Water wheel- farming upgrade.

Weaving- tricky one. I'll pass.

[oshron]

i still think one of the more important ones should be "Phalanx"; a civ should be required to research "Phalanx", ie, develop the strategy, before being able to use it, and only the civs which used them historically should be able to research it. all infantry spearmen (and maybe swordsmen as well?) should be able to form phalanxes, but only if they have the technology researched. this could actually provide for an interesting development in a scenario with a fictional setting and plot (as opposed to a historical one) in which, say, the celts team up with the greeks (the celts being the player) and their soldiers are taught how to use phalanxes by the greeks in teh scenario by an in-game function granting them the phalanx technology after they ally with teh greeks, just like how "foreign" technologies in AOM could be given to a civilization (as an example, in one of the scenarios in the AOM campaign, the player automatically has a special bonus for their myth units that is only available to greeks under normal conditions, even though all players in that scenario are egyptian)

as a technology, "Phalanx" could also perhaps improve the armor of units that "Phalanx"

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Well, there actually is a technology called "Othismis" or something of the likes of that which does the same thing. The problem with having all units be able to form the phalanx is this. The phalanx formation is entirely dependent on the shield, the hoplon. The hoplon was large enough to be able to cover the body of a man except that it had the hand-grips on the right side so that the hoplite had an ample amount of space for his spear. This led to hoplite to adopt this formation so that he could have that side free. The formation is all about a wall of bronze and was mainly used by the hoplite because they were about the only type of soldier that really needed to use that kind of formation. Because of the wall though, it made them pretty tough to get past.

[oshron]

i understand that, but for the sake of programming, i think infantry spearmen in general should all already have the data to form phalanxes programmed into them, but they just need that "Othismis" technology to be researched in order to activate that ability. again, giving celts the ability to form phalanxes would be for an entirely fictional scenario and have no standing whatsoever on the game's actual historicity; they wouldnt be able to do it in scenarios based on historical events or in random maps

[SMST]

The Phalanx formation is a unique tech for the Hellenes, so I think there won't be a Phalanx tech for other civs.

By the way, there is a Excel sheet with a technology tree draft for Celts and Hellenes somewhere in the game files.

[oshron]

but didnt other civs also form phalanx or phalanx-like formations?

[SMST]

but didnt other civs also form phalanx or phalanx-like formations?

The Roman maniple evolved out of the phalanx, I think. But I believe that is the special tech for the Romans, then.

[Mythos_Ruler]

This being a game, it is useful to exaggerate some differences between the factions. Sure, some of the factions would have used "phalanx-like" formations, but they weren't Thee Phalanx we know from Greek history.

[oshron]

would there be such distinction in-game, though? i know that 0ad is being designed for historical accuracy, but, honestly, for the sake of programming, wouldnt it be easier to make one collective "Phalanx" technology (but maybe called something different for each civ?) rather than programming a different one for each civ? in this case, teh hellenes could perhaps have inherent bonuses for that and there could maybe be graphical differences for the ones that had more developed phalanxes. as an example, a hypothetical celtic phalanx would just be them walking in formation while the hellenes would have a more accurate lineup for their phalanx

[Mythos_Ruler]

rather than programming a different one for each civ?

I'm saying only the Hellenes would have it. It's a special tech.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Irrigation, a technology researched at the the farmstead, is a Town Phase technology that costs some metal and wood. This technology would allow your farms to regenerate in food production much faster.

Fletching, a technology researched at the blacksmith, would significantly increase the accuracy of your archers. This mainly cost wood and would be available the Town Phase.

Linothorax, City Phase technology, would be researched at the blacksmith. This technology would increase the stamina and speed of hoplites. Perhaps instead though, since the elite hoplite and toxotes already has one, this technology would make the elite rank of various unit classes that wear these, available.

[feneur]

Irrigation, a technology researched at the the farmstead, is a Town Phase technology that costs some metal and wood. This technology would allow your farms to regenerate in food production much faster.

Fletching, a technology researched at the blacksmith, would significantly increase the accuracy of your archers. This mainly cost wood and would be available the Town Phase.

Linothorax, City Phase technology, would be researched at the blacksmith. This technology would increase the stamina and speed of hoplites. Perhaps instead though, since the elite hoplite and toxotes already has one, this technology would make the elite rank of various unit classes that wear these, available.

It seems like you're thinking in AoK terms 0 A.D. doesn't have a blacksmith, most military techs should go in the barracks, though possibly some might be researched in the fortress or a special building. Keep the suggestions coming though, we'll see what we'll use in the end, but it's always nice to have alternatives/inspiration

[satchitb]

Incidentally (and rather fundamentally ), is 0AD going to have ages?

[feneur]

Incidentally (and rather fundamentally ), is 0AD going to have ages?

No and yes =) We're not going to have ages, but rather "phases". Symbolising the growth of a city/colony from a Village, through Town to City. Each new phase will allow new buildings to be built and technologies to be researched (and with the new buildings new units). As it is now the different phases will not be visually different (i.e. a Civic Centre will look the same in both Village, Town and City phase).

[oshron]

for some expansions, i would personally recommend the addition to two more phaes: Empire (representing a time when the civ gets to the size and influence of the roman empire/republic) and Legend (representing a point of civilization where it becomes so powerful and influential that it is remembered for all time, again like rome)

[Mythos_Ruler]

Well, you aren't starting a new civilization from scratch. You are founding a new colony or province. And actually, such a conceit would work well with a 'Home City' concept.

[satchitb]

The Home City concept in Age of Empires III was good, but they messed it up with "cards" and "decks" which are just so wrong.

[Mythos_Ruler]

How would you have done the HC concept? How should the HC affect gameplay?

[oshron]

perhaps there could be a HC-like function as an alternative mode of gameplay where, every ten minutes or so, you are prompted to pick whatever bonuses pertaining to the home city (ive never played AOE3, so i dont know how it works) for a certain number of "rounds", but every ten minutes during those times and for the rest of the game, you get whatever bonuses, which would appear at the civic center

[Harm]

maybe you could add the ability to set traps

[Macgruber]

Astronomy- tricky one. What DID astronomy contribute to, that we could use in the game. Much like Age of Empires I, we could make it a theistic tech.

Glass blowing- tricky. I don't know what this might do.

Marble work- tricky. No idea.

Weaving- tricky one. I'll pass.

Astronomy is an easy one. It should increase the movement speed of ships. The reasoning being, that as skilled astronomers, your mariners can plot better courses.

Marble work, should unlock major cosmetic structures that provided a "home turf" advantage to defending forces. Nothing motivates soldiers like fighting for ones home.

Weaving should allow for the production of the linothorax. Used for the Hellenistic cultures. It could also improve the sails on ships through the use of better, lighter weaves.