Persian race :)

[fzerorubigd]

Hi all,

First of all sorry for my very bad english, My language is farsi (Persian)

And thank you, for your game, for now I try to download the source from SVN and I hope I can do it for nex day I don't know but after recive some file I got some error and I must resume the download by checkout again but I know, By any mean , I am your fan.

If you know, my country is not like the old Iran , we have many problems and this make world forget about our history. It's our fault, so just ignore it . and you can understand when I see this game, and I found you have Persian race.................

I check the forum, and I found (by my simple check) there is no Iranian people to help you in this game, and you need one, may be there is some but I also like to help you. Any help, about names, and history , any help about any thing that I can do, let me know.

Thanks again and again.

[Sam Assoum]

I don't think anything modern day events will ever make people forget the existence of the Persian empire

[Fionn]

The Persian people have one of the richest histories in the world and they are one of the few peoples that rivaled the greatness of Rome. Persian is a beautiful language too and I hope the development team can use your knowledge of it. Even after the brutal barbarian invasion that enslaved Persia in the 7th century the people still thrived thrived throughout the ages. Let's hope that someday the mullahs will go away and Persia will return to its former glory.

[Hiram]

I check the forum, and I found (by my simple check) there is no Iranian people to help you in this game, and you need one, may be there is some but I also like to help you. Any help, about names, and history , any help about any thing that I can do, let me know.

There is so much truth on those words, the persians have been misunderstuded, devaluated, and wrongly portreyed in RTS games since the beginings. Unfortunatly, the occidental culture feels more identifyed with the greeks, thus there has always been a subyacent discrimination to the persian units in games. Lets just look at 0 A.D., persians are planned to have weak units, and will base their strategy in numbers. It is truth that the persian empire was huge, but where do people get the idea that the average persian soldier was less capable than the greeks?, the greeks never really won a open war against the persians, they just get lucky. On the peneloponesian wars, they didn't expell Xerxes from Greece, he march all the way to Athens, and burn the city, the greeks couldn't do anything about it, then he had to leave to defend his trone, leaving the invasion to Greece unnatended.

Alexander campaign was also the result of unusual circumstances, a strong carismatic leader on one side, and a weak, coward one on the other, remember that Darius flee from Gaugamela. But on the mean time, Parmenion and a big part of the greek forces were being crushed on the left flank. And at the end, Alexander didn't conquer Persia, Persia conquer Alexander!, he was withness of the greatness of the empire and the culture, and wanted all that for him, at the time of his dead, Alexander was more persian than greek.

I think I may have look over excited here, but I had been and admirer of the persian culture since a long time ago, unfortunatly, persian ascendency is one that I cannot claim for myself, but one of the goals of my life, is to one day visit Iran and Persepolis, and get to know more about that great nation.

fzerorubigd, I hope someone of the team can make use of your knowledge, Im sure Michael will see this, and may have something more to add, in the meantime, I would like to get your opinion on a personal project that Im developing for Age of Mythology, you can visit my site, the link is on my sign, and here, or send me a personal message trough the forums, seya

[Mythos_Ruler]

It's not so much that the Persian soldiers were weak, but that they utilized poorly trained (for the most part) conscripts from subject nations. They also wore lighter armor (compared to the Greeks) and were better at archery and cavalry tactics than hand-to-hand combat. That's not to say they didn't have elite units. The Anusiya wore excellent armor and were master bowmen (every Persian boy learned how to fire a bow, ride a horse, and speak the truth). They also had katafrakts from Bactria and heavy duty chariots. But these units were only a small fraction of the empire's armies. I think 0 A.D.'s portrayal of the overall Persian military capabilities will be accurate.

[fzerorubigd]

Thanks all,

And I must say some things.

- Poorly trained? you say this "every Persian boy learned how to fire a bow, ride a horse, and speak the truth" and then you say Poorly trained! Persian are the best rider in the world,Polo is the Persian game .(We call it Chawgan) See this :Polo on wiki

Because of some movie like 300 They think Persian are huge in army and very week. but no! this is not true. The Parths (One of Persian kings, after Alexander and his successor ) use to be like partisans and they can defeat Roma in war (War of Orod and "Marcus Licinius Crassus Dives" see the daeth part of his page in wiki : Link on wiki

In that war iranian was 50,000 but the roma are very bigger than them!

by a numerically inferior Parthian force composed mainly of armoured heavy cavalry and horse archers. Crassus' legions were unable to maneuver as swiftly as their opponents

Persian army kill him, (He is the killer of Spartacus )

- I see some times people thinks Persian have elephant in their army but the true is they never have.

In some old war, Persian use camel (with fire in their back, to make them scream ) ) to scare Indian elephant and at that point , Most Persian army "never" see elephant before in that war! I think this is because we are very close to India.

I must see the game before any other thing to say, The problem is In Binaries folder After a while in any empty folder I got a "Forbiden" Error. why?

Again, Sorry my English is not good, Or My English is very BAD )

Edited August 14, 2009 by fzerorubigd

[fzerorubigd]

fzerorubigd, I hope someone of the team can make use of your knowledge, Im sure Michael will see this, and may have something more to add, in the meantime, I would like to get your opinion on a personal project that Im developing for Age of Mythology, you can visit my site, the link is on my sign, and here, or send me a personal message trough the forums, seya

Any help I can do.

Just say what you want me to do.

I can't send message to you Why? I can't send any message to any one

[janwas]

Greetings!

I can't send message to you Why? I can't send any message to any one

Unfortunately we've had cases of PM spam, after which Erik/feneur set a minimum number of 10 posts before people can send PMs. I see you will have those soon, and if Erik sees this earlier, maybe he can give you that permission immediately

[MrEmjeR]

you guys don't have to forget that more than the half of the persian empire army is not of persian race!!

there where a lot of Assyrians (wich was the empire before that of babylon), there where a lot of Judes who where banned to persian..

Egyptians where also under command of the persian and the height of the persian empire. Phoenicans where very important on sea!!

and the Medes of course..

Libians, phrygians,

all this different cultures trained their soldiers at their own usual way!

so you cannot easily sea that perisans are this or that...

but i do believe that the guys from the persian race where very good horsemen and bowmen

the greeks always saw the bow as a minor weapon. the spear/javelin was thé range weapons of the time, as the greeks say.

but persians where masters in bow. especialy mounted bow.

but the average persian unit was indeed lighter than the greeks, romans or carthaginians. i think as light as the egyptians.

but light never will mean weak!!

look to the peltasts. one greek leather, connot remember his name, defeated a meaning phalanx with a peltast army. while peltasts are very light and nearly armoured!

btw fzerorubigd (can you tell how to speak this out??)

are there any good works of any persian history writer from the ancient times????

i'm reading Thucydides and Herodotus now. but i realy wanna read something of another perspective about another place

[Mythos_Ruler]

Thanks all,

And I must say some things.

- Poorly trained? you say this "every Persian boy learned how to fire a bow, ride a horse, and speak the truth" and then you say Poorly trained! Persian are the best rider in the world,Polo is the Persian game .(We call it Chawgan) See this :Polo on wiki

Peace, my friend. I said their conscripts from subject nations were poorly trained. When we say the "Persian army was poorly trained" we are talking about the tens of thousands of farmers and traders conscripted to fight. The Persian army was made up of more than just Persians. It included Phrygians, Cappadocians, Carians, Parthians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Hyrcanians, Egyptians, Phoenicians, Medians, Scythians, Baktrians, Elamites, etc. Many of the infantry had no formal military training and wore little armor - preferring the bow, javelin, and sling to actual hand-to-hand combat.

The Persian national forces however, the Anusiya and various Median contingents were highly trained and wore excellent scale armor. The Baktrian horsemen were excellent light and heavy cavalry. The heavy cavalry wore excellent armor on the rider and horse. However, as I said, the vast majority of their armies were light armed skirmishers.

Because of some movie like 300 They think Persian are huge in army and very week. but no! this is not true. The Parths (One of Persian kings, after Alexander and his successor ) use to be like partisans and they can defeat Roma in war (War of Orod and "Marcus Licinius Crassus Dives" see the daeth part of his page in wiki : Link on wiki

In that war iranian was 50,000 but the roma are very bigger than them!

Persian army kill him, (He is the killer of Spartacus )

We certainly have not let '300' color our view of the Persians. It's a fun movie for what it is - mindless action; but historically very inaccurate.

- I see some times people thinks Persian have elephant in their army but the true is they never have.

In some old war, Persian use camel (with fire in their back, to make them scream ) ) to scare Indian elephant and at that point , Most Persian army "never" see elephant before in that war! I think this is because we are very close to India.

Indeed, there is really no evidence that the Persians actually used elephants in battle. However, elephants are such cool units, it's hard not to include them.

I must see the game before any other thing to say, The problem is In Binaries folder After a while in any empty folder I got a "Forbiden" Error. why?

Again, Sorry my English is not good, Or My English is very BAD )

Your English is not bad. Someone else will have to help you on the binaries problem. Make sure you continue to SVN Update the 0 A.D. folder.

[MrEmjeR]

if you wanna get the real meaning of 300 you should look "meet the spartans"

i would say that 300 is a missmaking of the sarcastic comedy Meet the spartans!!!

Meet the spartans rocks

[feneur]

Greetings!

I can't send message to you Why? I can't send any message to any one

Unfortunately we've had cases of PM spam, after which Erik/feneur set a minimum number of 10 posts before people can send PMs. I see you will have those soon, and if Erik sees this earlier, maybe he can give you that permission immediately

Indeed I can (and I have )

[Silver]

but where do people get the idea that the average persian soldier was less capable than the greeks?, the greeks never really won a open war against the persians, they just get lucky.

Because it's a game and when one civilization has numbers, you have to compensate by making the soldiers weaker or else they will run you over.

Maybe someday that will change when RTS and computer games become whole virtual worlds where luck plays more of a part and location/terrain play a part because of the massive maps and physics combined with computer power.

Right now - if you give a civilization numbers and equality it's going to be unfair and unfun.

I mean numbers still dominates most RTS games even with weaker soldiers.

It's a fine line between balanced and unbalanced. In AoE 1 Persia was perfectly fine - on par with all other civs. If you look at Assyria - they were the superpower in online play. If you didn't use them for Random Map, you lost the game.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Silver

[MrEmjeR]

Maybe someday that will change when RTS and computer games become whole virtual worlds where luck plays more of a part and location/terrain play a part because of the massive maps and physics combined with computer power.

My dream is a holographical strategy game! then is my pc life complete!!

but where do people get the idea that the average persian soldier was less capable than the greeks?, the greeks never really won a open war against the persians, they just get lucky.

they only won battles by the amazing big stupid mistakes of xerxes

as did the poleponnesians against athens

Athens should have won that war

Edited August 14, 2009 by EmjeR

[Hiram]

I said their conscripts from subject nations were poorly trained. When we say the "Persian army was poorly trained" we are talking about the tens of thousands of farmers and traders conscripted to fight.

The issue is when people say that the persian army was poorly trained, because it have poorly trained conscript soldiers. The greeks also had poorly trained conscript soldiers, they were called psiloi, of course the size of the greek armies and the persian thousand nations are not comparable. But I don't think, that we should say, that the overall persian army was poorly trained, is like saying that a army of 100 trained soldiers, are stronger, than a army of 100 trained soldiers+1000 conscript peasants.

Besides, the conscript soldiers were not a permanent part of the Persian army, they were called in very specific ocasions, but a big part of the army were profesional soldiers, either regular soldiers, or mercenaries.

[fzerorubigd]

btw fzerorubigd (can you tell how to speak this out??)

are there any good works of any persian history writer from the ancient times????

i'm reading Thucydides and Herodotus now. but i realy wanna read something of another perspective about another place

First of all , my name is Forud, son of Siavash in Shahname (Biggest myth story in the world about ten time bigger than homers Iliad & Odyssey -Ok with spell???- and one of greet art in iran , all poem and very very great! )

F 0 ru D

F Zero ru BigD

And the history of ancient time, There is many but all in Persian

The Shahname is about Iran history but some how Its modified , not real thing , For example in that story Alexander grand father is Darius Grand father

Its also translated to some language before.

if you wanna get the real meaning of 300 you should look "meet the spartans"

i would say that 300 is a missmaking of the sarcastic comedy Meet the spartans!!!

Meet the spartans rocks

I see that very funny.... but 300 is one of most hated Movies in Iran even those who never see movie know it well.

Because it's a game and when one civilization has numbers, you have to compensate by making the soldiers weaker or else they will run you over.

Totally agree with.. In game is yes. but I just want to talk about reality . As long as Persian is one of the game , I'm happy

WOW its take me about half hour to write this

[Silver]

My dream is a holographical strategy game! then is my pc life complete!!

It's probably not going to happen in my life time but I'd love some type of system/computer where your field of vision is the game, almost like you're really there. That would be my dream. Like you're on a virtual earth of a certain time period. Or you're on a fantasy world.

I'd even be happy with an RTS that uses voice as part of the controls.

[Mythos_Ruler]

We'll have that in 10-20 yrs.

[plumo]

So it is generally true what I heard , that Iranians were proud people , and quite nationalistic.

[Jeru]

Welcome to the forums, forud!

We Jews remember many good things about the Persians too - like in our bible in 2 Chronicles 36:22-23, which says Cyrus let the Jews come back to their homeland after they were exiled by the Babylonians.

[fzerorubigd]

that Iranians were proud people , and quite nationalistic.

Agree but I wish our governors be that way too, I think they are NOT Iranian. I hate them )

Welcome to the forums, forud!

We Jews remember many good things about the Persians too - like in our bible in 2 Chronicles 36:22-23, which says Cyrus let the Jews come back to their homeland after they were exiled by the Babylonians.

Thanks, And yes, I know this. Cyrus is one of the greet kings and I hope developer use his name and may be history in game

[plumo]

But you have to put patrionism, chauvinism and nationalism aside when you try to make a realistic game.

Yes, the Persian armies contained lots of crap, face the facts.

Yes, their empire was overtaken almost completely by Alexander the Great in a few years

Yes, small greek city states repelled their attacks...

I come from Belgium, a country of no importance, not now, not in the past ...

You have to learn to see the truth, and we are talking about events more than thousand years ago

[fzerorubigd]

Yes, their empire was overtaken almost completely by Alexander the Great in a few years

May be you are right, may be not. Yes the Alexander get all Iran, destroy one of the most beautiful city in the world (I see the Persepolis many times but its so great even in this time) , but we still exist. Arabs are take control over iran in about 700 A.D But we control them and some how defuse them ..., this is not the point, WE STILL ALIVE! since there is one like me ) we are alive.

Yes, the Persian armies contained lots of crap, face the facts.

Crap? I never call people Crap. This is my fact.

Yes, small greek city states repelled their attacks...

300? OK. You ever hear about just a few people (most archers) before Persepolis ?they hold Alexander for a month and then he kill them just with some "Unfair" (I cant find the good word, some type of using back door , spy or .. ) tactic? yes you never heard since its American-Europe Hollywood not Iranian Hollywood.

I come from Belgium, a country of no importance, not now, not in the past ...

may be Iran is not important at all, but its important to me. I never talk about my home country like this, Even I born/burn in hell itself.

You have to learn to see the truth, and we are talking about events more than thousand years ago

Yes I know, This game is 0 .A.D! not 2009 A.D Am I right?

After all, any word that may hurt you or any one is my mistake, just sorry , I want to be here like a good member and don't want to make any one angry. but some time I must answer some things.

Peace.

[Cassador_Chris]

But you have to put patrionism, chauvinism and nationalism aside when you try to make a realistic game.

Yes, the Persian armies contained lots of crap, face the facts.

Yes, their empire was overtaken almost completely by Alexander the Great in a few years

Yes, small greek city states repelled their attacks...

I come from Belgium, a country of no importance, not now, not in the past ...

You have to learn to see the truth, and we are talking about events more than thousand years ago

This was unacceptably inflamatory, plumo. Please consider that facts for you may not be facts for everyone.

I won't address your statements above because I feel they have already been addressed. I'm no moderator, but I would recommend that you cease and desist this kind of language in the future.

And Forud, son of Siavash in Shahname: We haven't met before because I haven't been on the site for a while, but please accept my welcome to our little online community.

And I understand your concern for your nation's history. Western-dominated history has mislead for way too long. I made a sort of resolution to change the way people think of history---so I decided to become a historian of African history. (People look at me weird when I talk about my career choice, mostly and probably because I'm a white middle class American college student. They say, "But you're not Black!" Then I say "LOL, I know right?")

Peace

EDIT: I evidently can't spell weird correctly.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Cassador_Chris

[Mythos_Ruler]

The Battle of the Persian Gates is one of Alexander's battles that is usually forgotten. It was kind of like Thermopylae in reverse!

Anyway, I don't think anyone is saying the Persian soldiers are crap. However, on average they had less armor and focused mainly on long-range tactics (their bowmen were rightly feared). In 0 A.D. they will have the farthest shooting archers and best cavalry in the game. Infantry (two-legged) units will generally have lower HPs and consequently will train faster than other infantry. They will get a +10% (-ish) pop cap bonus, so they can train a lot more soldiers than other factions. They will have an excellent economy as well. Overall they will be a very strong faction that has the capability to overwhelm enemies if used skillfully.