The end of unit overshoot?

[real_tabasco_sauce]

3 minutes ago, Atrik said:

If the prepare time is reset every time a unit receive a order like halt, target, or move by itself, as I I think it is, then it's the main delay during witch overshoots occurs.

yes, it is now. 1 sec of overshoot vs 2. But I wouldn't want a pike to stop, thinking it can attack, and then not be able to because its target ran away during the prepare time. There are certainly arguments to change prepare time for some units, but then you start to run into issues with animations.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

44 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

It might be a nice capability to have, but I don't think its necessary in general. Units stopping to attack is important for gameplay.

 

How so? It changes gameplay, but that doesn't mean it would be a bad change.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

4 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

How so? It changes gameplay, but that doesn't mean it would be a bad change.

this one is hard to explain. I think it could be ok for a unique unit. One time I gave units buildingAI, to see how strong spreading out damage perfectly would be, and being able to deal damage without stopping was far more impactful. Allowing units to attack while moving would basically make mobility in general even stronger than it already is.

i'm down to try it, but I don't think it should be a priority.

Edited Monday at 20:34 by real_tabasco_sauce

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

13 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Allowing units to attack while moving would basically make mobility in general even stronger than it already is.

Right, but you can do things to make standing and fighting stronger. It's just a change that can be worked around. 

[Philip the Swaggerless]

31 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

..... = prepare time

---- = repeat time

| = attack

O = check if the target is in range

 

vanilla:

..........|O-----------------------------------|O-----------------------------------|O

With patch (ie pikeman):

..........|O-------O-----------------O---------|O--------O---------------O----------|O

Okay.  So the animation is spread across the previous repeat/prepare time and the next repeat time if it understand it right.

My understanding of the animation and the timers is as follows:

Additional symbols

• > = attack motion begins
• ! = Animation Impact Point
• < = Post thrust draw back
• % = animation loop restarts
   

Current 

vanilla:

 >>>>!<<<<<<<<<<<<%>>>>>>>>>>>>!<<<<<<<<<<<<<%>>>>>>>>>>>>!

..........|O-----------------------------------|O-----------------------------------|O

With patch (ie pikeman):

 >>>>!<<<<<<<<<<<%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>!<<<<<<<<<<<%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>!

..........|O-------O-----------------O---------|O--------O---------------O----------|O

Proposed
Wouldn't it be simpler to align the distance check with the animation restart time?  Then you could keep the original number of distance checks and it should work reasonably well visibly.  I think you'd agree since you at least prefer prepare time not to be interrupted during the first attack. 

<<<<<%>>>>>>>>>>>>!<<<<<<<<<<<<<%>>>>>>>>>>>>!<<<<<<<<<<<

 ..........O------------------|-----------------O-------------------|----------------|O

This is a much more straightforward way to do it...am I missing something?  Of course, I haven't done much in 0AD beyond edit jsons so I don't know how hard it would be to make such a change.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

@Philip the Swaggerless sure its simple, but its limited.

<<<<<%>>>>>>>>>>>>!<<<<<<<<<<<<<%>>>>>>>>>>>>!<<<<<<<<<<<

 ..........O------------------|-----------------O-------------------|----------------|O

In the above (for pikemen) if you don't check immediately after the attack (|), the unit must wait a whole second before it realizes it needs to move to attack the unit again. This would be really bad.

Have you played it yet? The pikemen really don't look bad at all, its spearcav and swordcav chasing that look a bit weird.

There can certainly be improvements to try and fit the animation better, but timing it perfectly would be tough as all units have differing animations, repeat times, and prepare times. You would end up doing some crazy mathematical gymnastics to try and get it to work! Up to a point, it would be easier to tweak animations and audio (except I haven't done that yet XD).

Edited Monday at 22:36 by real_tabasco_sauce

[Philip the Swaggerless]

3 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

In the above (for pikemen) if you don't check immediately after the attack (|), the unit must wait a whole second before it realizes it needs to move to attack the unit again. This would be really bad.

It can't move while the animation is ending anyways, right?  Does it need to know its destination frames in advance to move on time?

[real_tabasco_sauce]

2 hours ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

5 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

In the above (for pikemen) if you don't check immediately after the attack (|), the unit must wait a whole second before it realizes it needs to move to attack the unit again. This would be really bad.

It can't move while the animation is ending anyways, right?  Does it need to know its destination frames in advance to move on time?

I bet what you are referring to as "the animation finishes" is actually the unit going on to finish a new attack. Currently, animations will be cut short if need be.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

18 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

There are certainly arguments to change prepare time for some units, but then you start to run into issues with animations.

You're right. Currently, most animations place the "impact" moment in the middle of the animation cycle. If we had an animator on board, we could make the "impact" moment of the animation within the first 20% of the animation and back load the last 80% of the animation with "preparing to strike." Alas, requires an animator and then some work to sync the animation times in the variant files, but this would greatly help the visual aspect by making impacts wave around into empty air less often. 

EDIT: Strike -> Impact. Also, you guys are already talking about this, but I thought to just add my tuppence.