Narrative Campaign General Discussion?

[Vantha]

Honestly, I thought we had already settled on Carthago Nova / Cartagena.

 

21 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Hannibal's trip to Rome would be cool. Perfectly suited for a campaign, we have the civs, and its famous.

The long continuous marching doesn't really match the typical gameplay, right?

On the other hand it would offer a logical explanation for why you need to build a new city from the ground up in each scenario -> constructing fortifications along the route to defend against ambushes. And launching a grand attack against the city of Rome would make for a great climax.

[ShadowOfHassen]

1 hour ago, Vantha said:

The long continuous marching doesn't really match the typical gameplay, right?

On the other hand it would offer a logical explanation for why you need to build a new city from the ground up in each scenario -> constructing fortifications along the route to defend against ambushes. And launching a grand attack against the city of Rome would make for a great climax.

I think that would be better suited for a higher level campaign instead of the tutorial. Having the final attack against Rome should be climactic in a huge sense and in my opinion better when the player already knows what they're doing

[Vantha]

2 hours ago, ShadowOfHassen said:

I think that would be better suited for a higher level campaign instead of the tutorial. Having the final attack against Rome should be climactic in a huge sense and in my opinion better when the player already knows what they're doing

I don't exactly agree with this point but, nonetheless, I think we should follow through with Carthago Nova.

[Vantha]

To get started, we need a map.

@Lion.Kanzen You said you could make one?

In parallel, I will start with scripting the first/zeroth scenario.

[Lion.Kanzen]

33 minutes ago, Vantha said:

To get started, we need a map.

@Lion.Kanzen You said you could make one?

In parallel, I will start with scripting the first/zeroth scenario.

Yes but I need to know the size of the map and the details besides the city and the enemies.

[Vantha]

I'd opt for a map size somewhere between small and normal. For details about the topography see the references below. The area appears to consist of dry shrublands with some scattered patches of loose Mediterranean forests. Unfortunately, I checked and it seems like there's no map currently in the game yet with biome like this.

On 02/11/2024 at 7:34 PM, Vantha said:

Some references for the terrain and topography around Carthago Nova:

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On 02/11/2024 at 8:03 PM, Vantha said:

Alright, here is what I envision for scenario 0:

 

Scenario 0 will neither to last the length of a full game nor feel like it. Instead, it is only supposed to introduce players to the basic controls and UI.

The map more or less covers the following area:

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The player starts in the southwestern/bottom-left corner with a couple of soldiers, women, and the hero, but no structures, and is told to scout the land for a suitable place to build the colony. Because there are no ships yet, the player is indirectly forced to make their way counter-clockwise around the map. On the way, two things happen: Firstly, the player finds a treasure and collects it. He is then told to collect enough treasures more from around the map to afford a civic center. Secondly, a few wild animals attack some of his units, and the player learns the basics of combat. Eventually, he will find his way onto the target peninsula and is ordered to construct a civic center here. The player "wins" the game as soon as the construction of this civic center is finished.

 

What do you think?

[Lion.Kanzen]

3 hours ago, Vantha said:

I'd opt for a map size somewhere between small and normal. For details about the topography see the references below. The area appears to consist of dry shrublands with some scattered patches of loose Mediterranean forests. Unfortunately, I checked and it seems like there's no map currently in the game yet with biome like this.

The first thing is to create the size and topography.

Do you have a reference for the biome?

[Vantha]

4 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Do you have a reference for the biome?

Two articles on the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Iberian_shrubs_and_woodlands

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_forests,_woodlands,_and_scrub

 

Some photos:

Spoiler

 

   

   

   

  

Keep in mind that these show the landscape today. Mediterranean regions like this tend to have become considerably more arid since antiquity. -> We need something noticeably more green.

[Lion.Kanzen]

38 minutes ago, Vantha said:

Two articles on the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Iberian_shrubs_and_woodlands

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_forests,_woodlands,_and_scrub

 

Some photos:

  Hide contents

 

   

   

   

  

Keep in mind that these show the landscape today. Mediterranean regions like this tend to have become considerably more arid since antiquity. -> We need something noticeably more green.

What Mediterranean trees do we have?

[Vantha]

2 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

What Mediterranean trees do we have?

The Aleppo pine and holly oak. For the shrubs, we have "bush_mediterranean" and "bush_mediterranean_dry". And, addtionally, quite a few fitting props (for decoration).

[Lion.Kanzen]

6 minutes ago, Vantha said:

The Aleppo pine and holly oak. For the shrubs, we have "bush_mediterranean" and "bush_mediterranean_dry". And, addtionally, quite a few fitting props (for decoration).

It doesn't matter, it is not important at this stage, the topography must be done first.

[Lion.Kanzen]

this will be the map.

 

[Vantha]

Looks pretty accurate. Three things:

 

Firstly, the city is built on this peninsula:

Spoiler

It looks quite small on this image. Make sure it's large enough in the game to accomodate for an average P3 base. And the map should not cover the whole area shown in this image in my opinion. Else it will get too big. I'd aim for depicting approximately this area:

Spoiler

 

Secondly, I'd add some unevenness to the terrain. It gives the map more "character". And there were (and are) actually small hills in this region. This map includes contour lines:

Spoiler

 

Thirdly, there should be no full connection between these to headlands here:

Spoiler

... as it can be seen in the images I shared earlier in the thread. Some bridges were built across it, but in the game it should be impassable by foot.

[Lion.Kanzen]

4 hours ago, Vantha said:

Looks pretty accurate. Three things:

 

Firstly, the city is built on this peninsula:

  Hide contents

It looks quite small on this image. Make sure it's large enough in the game to accomodate for an average P3 base. And the map should not cover the whole area shown in this image in my opinion. Else it will get too big. I'd aim for depicting approximately this area:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Secondly, I'd add some unevenness to the terrain. It gives the map more "character". And there were (and are) actually small hills in this region. This map includes contour lines:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Thirdly, there should be no full connection between these to headlands here:

  Reveal hidden contents

... as it can be seen in the images I shared earlier in the thread. Some bridges were built across it, but in the game it should be impassable by foot.

I'm going to fix it.

Edited November 29 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

I found this tonight, watching video game devreviews videos, I remembered the proposal to give rewards after each scenario.

It's in Spanish, sorry.

The sign says: rewards and victory above.

The difficult part would be how to use resources in the next game.

Edited December 6 by Lion.Kanzen

[Vantha]

I finished painting the map's topography: carthago_nova.pmp

 

I want to try myself at completing the full map this weekend. I haven't made a map for before, but it seems fun.

[ShadowOfHassen]

How's the campaign coming?

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, ShadowOfHassen said:

How's the campaign coming?

 

On 06/12/2024 at 8:10 AM, Vantha said:

I finished painting the map's topography: carthago_nova.pmp

 

I want to try myself at completing the full map this weekend. I haven't made a map for before, but it seems fun.

This

I haven't been able to see it due to lack of time. I don't think I'll have time at Christmas, before and after as well. 

[Vantha]

Yeah. I'm still working on the map every now and then. My expectations might maybe be too perfectionistic, which is why it takes me so long. Of course, doing it all in one weekend was a bit too optimistic.

And I won't try to estimate when I'll be done since that has gone wrong enough times in the past. But once the map is finished we can get right into writing and scripting.

[ShadowOfHassen]

1 minute ago, Vantha said:

Yeah. I'm still working on the map every now and then. My expectations might maybe be too perfectionistic, which is why it takes me so long. Of course, doing it all in one weekend was a bit too optimistic.

And I won't try to estimate when I'll be done since that has gone wrong enough times in the past. But once the map is finished we can get right into writing and scripting.

Great! I can help with writing-- I can also help with coding scripting if it's something easy like python or Lua, though some other people might be better qualified.

[Lion.Kanzen]

8 minutes ago, Vantha said:

Yeah. I'm still working on the map every now and then. My expectations might maybe be too perfectionistic, which is why it takes me so long. Of course, doing it all in one weekend was a bit too optimistic.

And I won't try to estimate when I'll be done since that has gone wrong enough times in the past. But once the map is finished we can get right into writing and scripting.

Take screenshots of progress.

[Vantha]

4 hours ago, ShadowOfHassen said:

Great! I can help with writing-- I can also help with coding scripting if it's something easy like python or Lua, though some other people might be better qualified.

It mostly requires pretty straightforward JavaScript code, I can take care of that. What I want to do too, though, is implement a way for the trigger scripts to query for some non-simulation-related information (to detect certain hotkey presses for instance) as well. This would allow us to polish the tutorial (especially the very first one) a whole lot better. But it requires modifying the engine code - which is a bit trickier.

 

4 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Take screenshots of progress.

Will do.