Land of the Tribes [concept]

[plumo]

My concept: an RTS mod/game = Land of the Tribes

Setting: Around 12.000 BC, the ice age is ending. The climate is getting warmer, conditions are less harsh. Human population increases, leading to conflict. It should not be a completely historical representation of that era but an alternative one. No magic, dragons or dwarfs for example but changes that could have happened. To be honest, I'm fed up with this.

Tribes: 4 Tribes that are visually distinctive, but all human ( homo sapiens sapiens). Their habitat/ environment differs, their weapons, culture, way of life, etc. ...

This is the first one: ( tonight I will add the next 3)

Forest dwellers others: Clan of the mountain, Lake people and Desert nomads

Live on the forest floor in small 'villages' consisting of dug-out holes under the roots of large trees, next to small rivers.

They are the smallest people, being big isn't an advantage when you live in a forest.

Respected men wear antlers ( token of the hunt) or a necklace of fangs. They worship places where a spring comes trickling out of the rocks or forest floor. Wear leather skins ( deer, wild boar). They know how to make fire but they fear it ( = forest) . Weapons: Wooden sticks, spears, primitive form of bow

They don't like to leave their forests. When they want to please their goddess, they tie up a human or animal above a spring. When the wolves come, they devour the sacrifice, turning the small river red with the blood of the victim. The red-coloured water has to pass the village, so the forest dwellers know that the goddess has accepted their sacrifice and will bless them.

Buildings

Tree dwelling: Housing built below a tree. Increases population.

Hunting post: A hut covered with leaves and branches, inside is a bowman luring for pray

Shrine of the Goddess: Piles of stone and a big ritual stone for sacrifices to the water spring.

A stockage for food, skins, wood, ...

The Wise woman's hut ( contains the technologies)

The warlord's hut: where you train your tribesmen and appoint them weapons.

Edited March 1, 2009 by plumo

[Cassador_Chris]

You know, I actually had an idea for an RPG/RTS that was set in a sort of set in a quasi-real fantasy world.

The races inhabiting this world would be people like this:

and a few fanciful sentient creatures like this:

http://www.stanford.edu/dept/HPS/BodyWorks...dinosauroid.jpg

or perhaps a more intelligent descendant from a creature like this:

http://clubnintendomx.com/imgblog/futuranimaux/squibbon.jpg

As well as things like Aurochs, dodos, and fanciful "Dixon" speculative evolutionary creatures.

And places like Atlantis, Stonehenge, etc.

Just to diverge from the traditional "JRRTolkein" fantasy.

okay, well, thats sorta like your idea, right?

[plumo]

Well My idea is without the fantasy part

Indeed. It was a very interesting period we know little about. And during the last ice age many species became extinct, so adding them to the game will make jaws drop to the ground, if people imagine what roamed the earth 13.000 years ago ...

[plumo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction_event

On this page the animals are displayed that were removed from the earth after the ice age. Some are hard to imagine. 10.000 isn't that long ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_sloth

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/...gemammals.shtml

This one is a must:

http://esencia21.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/glyptodon.jpg

[coragus]

watta abot homo neaderthals harder to kill and stronger but weak out in the open

[plumo]

The problem is that the Homo neanderthalensis would be very boring in a RTS

They didn't construct buildings , and they perished a few ten thousands of years ago.

[Historicity]

BTW guys - its Neandertal not Neanderthal.

Need to drop the H. Read an Anthropology book.

[Cassador_Chris]

Anthropology is so interesting. I wanted to be an archaeologist, until my parents convinced me that finding and keeping a job would be tough. Doesn't mean I still can't minor in it though.

[saxguy]

shame, i to wanted to be an archeologist but yeah its hard, i wonder if theres any good jobs around that area, ya'know history and archeology, but hey i got 2 and a half years till i go to university sooo...

about the Neandertal hows bout they bieng some kind of nomad, horde style faction, or maybe a like rebel or gaia faction??

[plumo]

There is not much known about the relations between homo sapiens and homo neandertalensis.

Did they fought each other? bred in between?

[Historicity]

There are alot of theories out there about Neandertals, and the genesis of modern Humans. For sure, there might have been conflict between the two groups, but Anthropologists simply don't know. There was bound to be competition between the groups as Humans began to migrate into Europe and go after the same food that Neandertals were going after.

EDIT:

In regards to the breeding question:

As before, we simply don't know. Kotakk, an author I'm reading in Anthropology, has a map that features countries like Israel, Jordan, and Lebanon as a possible "Hybrid" or "highly interactive" zone between the two groups.

Take care guys.

Edited March 20, 2009 by HistoryGuy

[feneur]

BTW guys - its Neandertal not Neanderthal.

Need to drop the H. Read an Anthropology book.

Got curious and took a quick look around the internet, seems like it's mainly a matter of personal choice (Though the 'th' version seems more common than the 't' version, 1.8 million results in a Google search, compared to about 397 000 for the Neandertal spelling. I know that doesn't prove anything, but it does at least indicate that it's more often spelled that way. )

[Mythos_Ruler]

The name comes from a region of France, I believe, which has a definite spelling.

[feneur]

Well, according to Wikipedia it's the name of a valley in Germany, which had its name changed when they had some language reforms in Germany. The thing is though that the scientific name Homo neanderthalensis was given before that reform, and scientific names can't be changed after the fact according to the info I saw. But sure, the valley is nowadays spelled Neandertal.

[saxguy]

As before, we simply don't know. Kotakk, an author I'm reading in Anthropology, has a map that features countries like Israel, Jordan, and Lebanon as a possible "Hybrid" or "highly interactive" zone between the two groups.

the neanderthalis actualy went that south???

[Historicity]

That's what the map shows. My professor also mentioned that they were present in the Near East.

Neandertal Range in Europe & Near East

This map is very similar to the one that is in Kotakk's book. But it still doesn't show the zone of possible interaction (which is roughly Israel, Jordan, and Lebanon).

[Brightgalrs]

This idea wouldn't be very good if it was historically accurate. A more fantasy approach would be more interesting.

[plumo]

That's why i chose for 4 tribes of homo sapiens.

The difference is in their environment and how they deal and react with it.

Neandertal is a place in Germany.

Neander - tal

Neander is a river, tal means valley

[Belisarivs]

They didn't construct buildings

Really? I read somewhere, that their brain was bigger than ours. That at least suggests higher intelligence.

Well, I'm curious what led to their extinction. I mean what was their weakness. AFAIK, we are real reason of their extinction.

[Ykkrosh]

I read somewhere, that their brain was bigger than ours. That at least suggests higher intelligence.

The ever-reliable Wikipedia says "a 1993 analysis of 118 hominid crania concluded that the cranial capacity of H.s. neandertal averaged 1412cc while that of fossil modern H.s. sapiens averaged 1487cc". It also says the brain of a sperm whale is on average 8kg, so I'm not sure it's directly correlated with intelligence

Humans didn't even have agriculture until ten thousand years ago, yet now we have digital watches. That's far too short a time period for evolution to have had any significant effect on intelligence - the important factors are knowledge, education, technology, society, infrastructure, etc, not raw intelligence. A modern human living in the wild with no knowledge of civilisation would be as primitive as one living ten thousand years ago, since we're no cleverer than they were back then.

[plumo]

I can seriously appraise the BBC series : ' Walking with cavemen' for further information

[dalongzazhong]

The ever-reliable Wikipedia says "a 1993 analysis of 118 hominid crania concluded that the cranial capacity of H.s. neandertal averaged 1412cc while that of fossil modern H.s. sapiens averaged 1487cc". It also says the brain of a sperm whale is on average 8kg, so I'm not sure it's directly correlated with intelligence

Humans didn't even have agriculture until ten thousand years ago, yet now we have digital watches. That's far too short a time period for evolution to have had any significant effect on intelligence - the important factors are knowledge, education, technology, society, infrastructure, etc, not raw intelligence. A modern human living in the wild with no knowledge of civilisation would be as primitive as one living ten thousand years ago, since we're no cleverer than they were back then.

Very insightful point. However, I can't help but think that the toll of such historic events as massive plagues (black death killed some 1/3 population of Europe and Asia?), nomad "scourges" such as those of the chinggis descendancy and timur lenk, and other bottleneck events would have had some play in the "evolution" of modern humans. Certainly I think, as humans became more urbanized they would lose essentials such as a regular intake of meat, and shifted towards a more agriculture-dependent diet. This would have caused malnutrition in many cases, and would have killed off those who could not adapt to the diet. The raw lack of abundancy in increasingly urban settings would have killed off bigger people and allowed smaller people to propogate. Perhaps this is why we see the average height as being laughably small during and before the industrial era, and why the average height as grown as we are being fed better nutrition. However, pre-industrial periods, among people adapted to a regular intake of meat and other proteins, would have been close to and have had metabolic rates similar to people today.

That is my take on the matter. Perhaps also there is some selectivity in plagues: are bigger people more susceptible? They eat more, breath more.. I shan't be silly. But, since plague would spread more rapidly among urban poor, perhaps, in disregard of political correctness, it would have killed off these "dumber" varieties of humans and left the bourgeosie, with more of an inclination to accomodating their health, alive to reproduce.

[dalongzazhong]

Sorry for the double posting.

in regard to the idea, I think it is awesome - there is no game that I know of out there that deals with the 10,000 year mark with quality and insight and playability. However, if you have read the book "forbidden archeology" by michael cremo, and any of his other works, you will find the argument for extreme human antiquity hard to resist.

He provides evidence that humans have existed for 2-4 million years, and if his argument is true, not only does it shoot the current theory of evolution to shreds but also encourages the possibility of extraterrestrial seeding of life on this planet. In the vedic scriptures there is said to have been 6 total "annihilations" of life as we know it, and 6 subsequent rebirths. These 6 correspond to the 6 mass extinction events we have in current scientific history: those of the dinosaurs, ice ages and asteroids and stuff. If we accept the possibility of extreme human antiquity then we must also accept the possibility of highly developed civilizations as well, and it not only makes the existence of an "atlantis" plausible but impossible not to have had existed.

is it so hard to believe we have been completely cut off from our ancient ancestors that built civilizations similar to the ones we are so familiar with? Modern science and technology is capped by a fine and definite limit. The remainder of our success in discoveries must be owed to luck and insight. We've been detached from the wisdom of the ancients: the vedas, greeks, mayans, egyptians. We have lost so much ancient texts due to senseless brainwashed destruction.

The only way we can connect to our ancient ancestors is through imagination. Think of the possibilities! The human race may be much more rich and beautiful than we could ever imagine. We are apt to think of the interactions between humans and those beasts scientists have deemed lived millions upon millions of years ago. Think of all the insane challenges our sapien ancestors would have had to deal with in order to pacify the threat of not only other insane animals but other early versions of man. infinitely more fertile ground for plowing than any arbitrary fantasy concoction with wizards, dragons, and the old dreary like.

[plumo]

It is indeed a very fascinating period, yet no game will cover it.

Lets find a team and get busy

[Fionn]

Great ideas. I have been thinking of how fun a prehistorical RTS would be. In many ways it would be simpler than historical RTSs in the sense that the civs wouldn't differ much (ie Eurasians, Africans) but it would be so complex with environments ranging from canyons to (temperate) rain forests plus the wildlife that inhabits each area. Maybe even the neanderthals would make it in as a faction or a non-playable faction.