wraitii
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Posts posted by wraitii
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Been having some fun asking chatgpt to remake 0 A.D. screenshots into more realistic images.
Obviously far from perfect but it's fun. The island in particular came out great IMO.
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4 hours ago, chrstgtr said:
Problems With Current System
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Interestingly these sound like they'd apply pretty equally to AoE2's naval system. People also complain about that one a bit but it's proven hard to improve.
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3 hours ago, Seleucids said:
Another observation: some civs lag and stutter more than others in P3 and when fighting.
- Unplayable stutter: Athenians, Romans
- Very Lag: Spartan, Seleucid, Carthaginians, Macedonians
- OK: Gaul, Britons, Persians
- Least lag: Ptolemies, Mauryas, Kushites, Han
Unit type also matters: in general, skirmishers lag much more than slingers and archers. Pikes lag less than spears or swords. Cavalry units also follow the same pattern, but will stutter completely if you try to retreat them.
Does this happen even without mods ? If it's a GUI thing it could be tied to a mod maybe?
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1 hour ago, Seleucids said:
What is this and could we mitigate it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_collection_(computer_science)
It's linked to our usage of javascript.
As it happens, I also have a diff for this problem: https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/7239
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2 hours ago, Seleucids said:
This is a 4v4 where I suicided due to lag. Hakuna was pinging me to retreat but I couldn't, because the GUI was almost frozen. The counter claimed 8 fps but it was more like 0.8 fps. Within 1 frame update, my pop dropped from 200 to 173. The next frame I saw I was at 130. All I did was order a retreat.
Replaying this - I don't see an obvious point where lag shows up, it's just slowly slower over time.
There are big lag-spikes from the full hashes - they take about 150ms on my machine and I have a very powerful computer. The biggest lag spikes are GC slices, which take around 350ms on my machine.
Regular sim turns take about 30ms, so on slower computers that's a lot of lag.
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I suspect the phase 3 lag might actually be from the GUI update, which I won't see by just replaying.
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19 minutes ago, Seleucids said:
With the stutter "fix", in P3 there is visible delay (between input and GUI response) as soon as the phase 3 tech finishes researching. It's almost magic.
Frame rate wise, the counter drops from 120fps in P2 to 50-60fps. However, in reality (at least from user perspective), it is nowhere near the 50 fps claimed by the counter. Occasionally the frame rate counter does shop dips to as low as 8fps while building barracks in P3.
Weird thing is, if I push with large army in P2, the stutter is significantly less and frame rate is high. P3 seems to be the culprit.
Could you upload a commands.txt of a game which shows this behaviour? It's possible that there's some tech thing that leads to issues.
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7 minutes ago, Seleucids said:
The profiler 2 excerpt is attached profile2.jsonphere:
I suspect the report is showing data at the end of the game when things are smoother. You should try clicking "save live report to file" in the middle of the game.
But based on that profiling, your render frames take exactly 16ms which is consistent with targeted 60 fps.
The "sim" frame every 200 ms take about 50ms, which should be potentially noticeable, but not dramatic. Breaking that down ,the "gui sim update" takes about 10ms, and the sim update is probably variable but 5-15ms is expected.The full state hash check in that replay is 111ms which is definitely noticeable.
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One possibility is that the lag is GUI lag. We've bumped the max selection size to 300 units I believe, that might affect lag?
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7 minutes ago, Seleucids said:
A video recording:
This video seems to show "regular sim lag" to me - I would expect A26 to behave similarly. If you upload the profile2 JSON file we could look more in-depth.
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4 hours ago, Stan` said:
@wraitii why would the hash check freeze the UI ?The hashing happens on the main thread so the CPU literally cannot do anything else. So it's a freeze of everything.
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29 minutes ago, Acero said:
wraitii, by just profiling replays you are omitting the whole multiplayer aspect of lag. Am i missing something?
Yeah as Stan said the "lag" is not actually lag, it's the simulation update (or the turn hash) taking too long. This should also show in replays from commands.txt.
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For me, my frame drops to 10 fps as soon as I reach P3. Then freezes during fights.
Good news @0 calories, I managed to recompile A27 with the wraitii quick hash and it reduces lag to near A26 levels!
See, the thing is that this is inconsistent with what should happen, so I find it a little sus. My patch should basically remove the every-4s-freeze entirely, but this should happen mostly right from the start and just get slowly worse over the game. If it slows down during fights it's something else and the patch should not be changing that.
With regards to running with the patch - it's safe, but you will OOS right from the start and you then might miss out on actual OOS, or cheaters and such. So that's not ideal. We have been looking into it and there's really no way to make it compatible with A27 as released, unfortunately. So we need a patch release, and it's going to be incompatible, and that's all very annoying. But we're not a big team and we don't have a lot of free time - and we do this on our free time - so you'll have to take things in your own hand in the very short term.
6 hours ago, Acero said:I think this kind of comments from a leading developer is the reason why a bunch of old school players have the feeling that 0ad devs, which are almost never seen in the lobby, live a bit disconnected from reality and disregard players opinions.
We'd like some help, actually. When you play MP games, please upload your commands.txt so we can replay and profile your games. Please upload your profile.txt so we can get some idea of what's slow. Please profile using profiler2. Please profile using perf or samply or something else. Please bisect. It's not that complicated, and if you need some help, at this point I think deepseek or chatgpt or mistral or llama or gemini or grok can help you out.
And don't try to pull rank by talking old school. I've been around longer than the lobby has.
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@guerringuerrinThis is usually a browser error because the profiler loading uses too much recursion. Firefox seems to be the browser with the highest default limit right now.
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From what I can tell, there's a few things:
- Vulkan rendering makes the game have much higher FPS on average, so the simulation ticks, which happen every 200ms, are much more noticeable. This is especially true on e.g. Combat-Demo-Huge.
- Full state hash checks happen every 20 simulation turns (so every 4 seconds) and are quite slow. I'm not sure it's a new problem - could be exacerbated by happening every 4 seconds since this commit, but I'm pretty sure that was in A26 as well. I haven't noticed anything obvious when profiling a few things. It's possible it's also the smoother rendering making it more obvious ?
- Shrinking GCs happen every 500 simulation turns, so about every minute and a half. These can cause a lag spike.
- Pathfinder can still lead to some very slow simulation ticks on occasion.
- The sim itself might have some rare cases where some turns take extra-long, like when a player is defeated.
- The GUI is also occasionally slow, notably when selecting a lot of units.
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@real_tabasco_sauceCan you post the commands.txt of the 4v4 you posted on the ticket ?
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Making things block vision could be a significant slowdown and would at a minimum require a large rethinking of the LOS algorithm.
Walls blocking projectiles is more doable, but hasn't really been a priority or a target.-
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22 minutes ago, carlosnewmusic said:
when generating a large map with bots and so on I get this error in the development version of git https://pastebin.com/tfkvNSvS
Can you say which map and which settings?
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Still needs a little work now that we're on 115, but it works: https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/7399
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Personally would be fine with IRC, Matrix has been a little annoying every time I've used it - the web clients seems slow-ish, and I haven't taken the time to find a client I liked. I'm also only somewhat semi-active, and for work am now mostly on telegram (+ slack) so not really relevant.
If Zulip is more lightweight than Matrix it would have my preference, but I think we aren't big enough that IRC is unworkable.
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Yeah that's what those are. I guess I just forgot to upload the tarball.
I've done that now, should fix the link.
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As an eternally sometimes active and sometimes burned out dev, I relate to the struggle. Thanks for all the years of leadership and support, thanks for all the events you attended, all the mods you carried and updated, and all the releases you shipped !
Enjoy the rest
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8 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
I guess we have seen no complaints for making a 5th release of the community mod. @wraitii is there still time to do this?
Sure
8 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:would it be possible/good to keep the 4th version on modio in case people want to keep playing that version?
I think ModIO keeps past versions automatically, though from within 0 A.D. you won't get it
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(Also noticed a similar error on Jebel Barka, didn't investigate more)
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5 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
Seems like it's just not running. Presumably because you don't have the Developer role https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/ci/pipelines/merge_request_pipelines.html#prerequisites
Edit: ran them, looks like it fails 'cause the pipeline is broken.
If people are OK with the changes I can merge them regardless-
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Thoughts on adding a second modding language Lua (luajit)
in Game Development & Technical Discussion
Posted
Overall a 2x faster scripting language wouldn't really "fix" the game - some of it is overhead, but most of the time is spent in C++.
WASM is interesting, but unfortunately not actually super easy to use. I'd rather not do assembly script but write in some other compiled language for it tbh.