Enarwaen
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Posts posted by Enarwaen
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arrgh ... well it sounds really really bad on paper - about all the scenes they sacrificed
brilliant stuff like
Voice of Saruman
Houses of Healing
no Faramir & Eowyn
no Mouth of Sauron
no standoff between Gandalf & Witch-king
(one of my fav scenes)but hey ... the emotional part should be working
we'll see at Dec. 16th at 23:59 (thats what my ticket says)
suilad
-Bernd
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Massive ROTK Q&A Spoilers!
Pippin_Took @ 2:26 am EST
TolkienOnline regular Marty was lucky enough to see an early screening of ROTK today, and has been hard at work answering a multitude of questions about the movie from fellow fans. I have organized them in an easy-to-read format here for all to enjoy. I will continue to update as Marty answers more questions. This should go without saying, but Massive major mega-spoiler warning!! Spoilers don't get any more major than this!
How is the Saruman/Palantir issue handled?
Gandalf & co show up at Isengard and meet the hobbits at the gate. Pippin finds
the Palantir at the base of Orthanc in the water and Gandalf snatches it from
him. There is no sight of Saruman or Grima.
Do you think the film will be emotional for those that don't know the book?
My Tolkien virgin GF cried like a baby.
Do we see anything of Valinor?
No
Is there any sort of epilogue with material from the appendices?
No
Is Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli/Arwen or anyone who wasn't at the Havens in the book
there for the film?
No
Is Galadriel at Aragorn & Arwen's wedding?
No
Do Eomer and Gimli say anything about how beautiful Arwen and Galadriel are?
No
Please fill me in on the House Of Healing scenes and the Eowyn and Faramir
storyline.
Not there, though Faramir and Eowyn are standing together at Aragorn's
coronation.
Does Aragorn really stand up with authority and become the King we all want?
Yes
Is the suffering of Frodo truly moving?
Yes
How is the editing and flow of the movie?
I liked the flow, but you could tell there'd be plenty of material for the EE
How does Gandalf’s confrontation with the WitchKing play out. Is it
good/bad/brilliant?
Not there.
How is Miranda in her fight with the Wiki?
One of the highlights of the film. I was moved more than I'd ever imagined I
would be.
What is the first shot/scene after the initial Smeagol/Deagol Prologue. Where
does the title "Return of the King" get displayed...
There is a short scene with Frodo, Sam and Gollum right after the prologue.
Gollum wakes the hobbits and tells them to hurry. Sam tells Frodo they're
running low on lembas. Then we cut to Gandalf and friends going to Isengard and
the Return of the King title appears.
Every...Single...Second...of any scenes that take place in Isengard, assuming
there are any of course, and if not how does the Palantir get discovered and how
is Saruman dealt with...
I told much of it above. Treebeard also has a cameo.
Does the Crossroads Scenes make it into the TE Cut?
No
Are the Watchers in Cirith Ungol included?
Yes, but they don't do anything.
Does the Witchking confront Gandalf on his Horse or on his Fellbeast? Does it
happen at the Gate? Does the @#$% crow before the Rohan arrive?
No, no and no
How does Eowyn vs. Witchking play out? Are there deviations from the book? If so
for the better? Does Eowyn decapitate the Fell Beast? How does the WK die, is it
cheesy?
It's pretty faithful. Yes, she decapitates the fell beast. His crown kind of
collapses on his head. It's not cheesy at all. One of the numerous applause
points in the film.
Are the Witchking or the Mouth of Sauron given any backstory, or are they just
tossed into the story without any character development?
Gandalf quickly explains who the Wiki is and that's pretty much it. The MOS is
not in the film.
Is Gollum shown pleading before Shelob at all?
No
Do the Eagles come to the Black Gate?
Yes, and the moth.
Tell us everything that happens after the ring is destroyed. What happens at the
Grey Havens? Is there an Epilogue? If so what does it show? Does it tell us the
fates of the characters? What is the very last shot of the movie? Etc Etc...
There is the coronation, Aragorn gets the she-elf and the hobbits go home. Sam
gets married, Frodo finishes the book, then the GH. There is no epilogue. The
last shot is the door closing at Bag End. The last line is "Well, I'm back."
Is there an epilogue that shows the future of the characters post-Grey Havens?
No
Are there any surprises waiting for us at Mt. Doom or does it play out pretty
much like the book?
After Gollum gets the ring, Frodo jumps him and they struggle for a bit before
tumbling over the edge. Gollum dies, Frodo is hanging to a rock with his one
good hand. Sam grabs the diminished hand and pulls him up.
Is the scenery very much like what we have seen in the flashback from FOTR (the
one with Isildur and Elrond) or did they alter (enhance?) the look of it
significantly?
It's pretty much the same.
Does Aragorn take on Sauron in hand-to-hand combat (better phrased - does Sauron
take shape and we see him in that great armour again)?
No
Is Elrond at the Black Gate or do any fighting anywhere?
No
Who are the minor characters, not yet mentioned?
Is Imrahil in, Beregond, Bergil, Ioreth etc...?
No, no, no
Also I would also like to know if VoS is awkwardly missed and how they resolve
the Palantir appearence.
It's really not too bad. I did miss the presence of a corporeal baddie. I think
PJ was right when he amped up Saruman. Too bad he didn't complete the arc.
I'd like to hear your reaction in general without going into specifics as well
as your thoughts on Oscar noms. So a spoiler free version of your thoughts
please!
Bottom line, I liked it. A lot.
Does Pippin fart before Gimli belches, or vice versa?
Neither
How many soft-filtered closeups of Legolas' pretty eyes are there?
Leg's got a few moments, but his presence isn't as strong as in the other two.
Does PJ pimp his kids in another useless cameo?
I think so.
Only one major question: What goes on at the Black Gate? Is there a very large
anticlimactic battle, or is the ring destroyed before major hostilities get
underway? If there is a large fight at the BG, then how does it compare to BOTPF?
Is it more of less "grand" in scale. There had been some debate about this topic
earlier and I am curious. Thanks !
There is no MOS. The battle is intercut with Frodo's adventures at Mt. Doom.
After the Minas Tirith action, we really don't want to see too much battle
anyway. The odds are very much against our heroes so, even though we don't see
too much of the battle, we know there's trouble a brewin'.
As said before: is the shot with Gandalf facing the Witch-King in it at all, or
has it been axed?
Axed
Is Denethor well done, a credible character?
Well, he doesn't have a palantir.
How's the "End of All Things", notably do we see the destruction of Barad-Dur?
Oh, yes indeedy.
What about "Into the West"?
Sorry, didn't stay for the credits, heathen that I am.
What I'd like to know is just how emotional it is, and elaborate on how much you
liked it...is it much better than the other two?
It's certainly more emotional than the other two. I spent most of the film with
a lump in my throat. Yes, I do think it's better. It has a climax, after all.
What did you think of Denethor (closeness to the books, dialogue, performance,
etc)?
He was quite the jerk, and the acting was superb. He and Gandalf sure hate one
another. And when he tells Faramir that he wishes that he had died instead of
Boromir, all of the Filmamir haters should be converted by his reaction.
How were the Army of the Dead handled? And the corsairs?
They mention the corsairs but there is no battle with them. The Dead do indeed
show up to save the day at Minas Tirith.
Does Denethor get his "We shall burn like heathen kings before ever a ship
sailed hither from the west!" line in any shape or form?
Don't remember per se, but he's very defeatist.
How is the very ending?
Moving to the extreme.
And PJ's cameo?
Missed it.
You said that there's no Gandalf vs WK in the film. Is the scene in the trailer
when the WK and his fell beast descend before Gandalf not in the film then? Or
is that scene not a "confrontation"?
I think it's not the confrontation, but don't quote me.
Do Eowyn and/or Merry ride to the Black Gates?
Merry
As a book adaptation, how "close" did you feel the film was to the books as
compared to FoTR and TTT?
Quite close with one major change. Gollum turns Frodo against Sam and Frodo
sends Sam home. Frodo faces Shelob alone. Good thing Sam really doesn't go home,
huh?
How much did you enjoy the film versus the first two? Was it your favorite?
Least favorite?
Most, but not by a large margin.
You say that the MoS does not appear at the Black Gates (nor in any of the film,
which is strange). Are there any "bigger" foes that are fought there? Or is the
battle just the good guys vs the orcs?
There's a battle with Oliphaunts.
Does Sauron appear in the film in any shape or form other than as the Eye?
No, but his eye has a headlight now. I'm serious.
How well was the Army of the Dead handled?
Pretty much as we've assumed.
Do the Hobbits return to the same happy shire that they left in the first film?
Or are there signs that events akin to the Scouring took place, but on a much
smaller scale?
No such event takes place.
How did the Battle of Pelennor Fields compare to the battle at the Gates?
The battle at the gates is in no great detail. We're focusing on Frodo and Sam
at the time.
Did you cry?
Nearly, but I was with my GF so I had to keep up my manly facade.
Is the last line really "Well, I'm back"?
Yes
Is there a drunk Legolas?
No
Is there any insinuation of a relationship between Farmir and Eowyn besides them
standing together? No kiss, no wedding, not even a freaking butt-slap?
No, no, no
Is it worth the wait?
Yes
Is it as good as it was cracked up to be, and is it as good as we all hope it
will be?
Yes
Did you look at your watch during the last half hour?
No
How do you rank it compared to the first two acts?
Better, but quite in keeping with the others.
Does Aragorn heal Eowyn, Faramir, and Merry?
No
Faramir -- is he more like "Book Faramir" than he was in TTT TE?
Yes
Does Merry have a scene with Theoden in any way similar to their scenes together
in the book (i.e. - is the king surprised by the existence of Hobbits? does he
ask Merry to tell him about pipe weed? does Merry pledge himself as a vassal to
the king? )
No
How big of a part does Eomer have?
Still pretty small
How does the Shelob scene play out? Particularly, does Frodo enter Shelob's
tunnel alone, and does Sam put on the Ring after deciding to carry on?
Yes and no
Also, are Merry and Eowyn at the Black Gates?
Yes
Do we get a sense that Frodo has changed and can no longer enjoy the Shire when
he returns?
Yes
Although we don't see Valinor (or Tol Eressëa to be precise), do we see the look
on Frodo's face when *he* sees it? Contentment? Peace? I heard it was PJ's
favorite moment in the whole film. Did it work for you?
Yes, but it's mostly a bunch of goodbyes (I think I'll miss you most of all,
Scarecrow, I mean Sam)
Did you hear any feedback from other viewers today, besides the GF?
Other than the multitude of ovations, not really.
Is Bilbo in there?
Yes
Do Arwen and Galadriel have a scene together?
No
There's absolutely no hint of a Faramir/Eowyn romance???
No
You mentioned the Wiki vs Eowyn scene was one of many where people cheered. What
were the others?
Sam saving Frodo from Shelob. Gandalf taking over for Denethor, Legolas killing
an Oliphaunt, the ring's destruction, the end credits, name by name, including
JRRT, etc.
How close is the Wiki & Eowyn dialogue to the book in that scene?
I don't know.
Any particularly funny moments? (don't spill the complete joke though - I'd like
to be surprised)
Not too much. No dwarf tossing.
Is Gimli still cracking jokes at every opportunity or has he gotten that out of
his system?
Once or twice. Not too bad.
Does Legolas have any of his infamous super-acrobatic moments?
The Oliphaunt killing moment.
How different (if at all) is Sam's Cirith Ungol rescue from the book?
It's a more protracted fight, but he still stabs her with Sting.
Tell us about the Pyre of Denethor. How graphic is it? Do they show Denethor
aflame?
Yes, and he runs in flames from the pyre and jumps to his death from the tower.
How is the whole "Arrival of the Rohan" sequence played out if Gandalf does not
confront the Wiki and there is no @#$% to crow?
Pretty much the whole "just when things looked their darkest..." sort of nick of
time arrival.
More about Saruman. Is he mentioned at all? Is it explained in any way shape or
form what happened to him or is he just wiped away clean from the plot?
Just some vague talk about how he won't be bothering anyone anymore.
With the MoS gone from the Black Gate, how does that whole sequence play out? Is
there no parlay at all now? Do they just ride up and start fighting with
Sauron's army already hanging out at the front gate?
Aragorn and Gandalf ride up to the gates and yell for them to come out. The
gates open. We see tons of orcs. Aragorn rides over to his men, gives them a
Kingly motivational speech, then all heck breaks loose.
You stated that the Moth shows up with the Eagles. Can you explain how it fits
in with everything?
Gandalf sends it to get the eagles so they can kick some fell beast @#$%.
Is there any reference to Eowyn and Faramir getting married?
No
Do they show Theoden's funeral?
No
Does Eowyn say memorable lines during the confrontation with the Witch King?
Yes
Do the eagles talk?
No
Does Eomer get crowned king of Rohan?
No
Does Eowyn get more screen time than Arwen?
Yes
Does Galadriel appear only at the Grey havens? If no, where else does she
appear?
No, she appears in a vision to Frodo.
Do we get shirtless Faramir???
No
Were there extra scenes that added to the book?
The Gollum framing Sam stuff. Elrond delivers Anduril. Arwen tells Elrond she's
hooking up with Strider whether he likes it or not. Arwen gets sick until the
ring is destroyed.
Apart from Aragorn et al in Minas Tirith, were there other significant
*deviations* from the book? How did they sit with you compared to those made in
TTT?
There really weren't many changes that I haven't already mentioned. Most of the
missing scenes will be in the EE so I'm not too upset.
General audience reaction - many tears shed?
Through the roof. Not a dry eye...
Just tell us the general feeling you got. I sit everything you hoped on first
viewing? Can you now see the single event picture? Does it work? Is it Best
Picture or not?
I've been saying it will win BP since FOTR lost and my prediction remains.
Did they make you feel bad for Gollum at the end or does his death seem like
justice?
No, he's gloating that he has the precious even as he sinks into the lava
Would you call this movie a tearjerker (what are the tearjerky moments and rate
them on a scale of 1 to 10 for tear jearkiness)?
Yes.
Pippin & Merry split up 8
Theoden agrees to ride to Gondor's aid 7
Denethor insults Faramir 7
Eowyn/Wiki/Theoden dies 10
Aragorn gets Arwen/Elrond approves 7
All of Gondor bows to the hobbits 7
Grey Havens 10
On a scale of 1 to 10 what do you give it as whole?
9.5, ok 10
How is the destruction of Sauron/Barad-Dur/Ringwraiths and the scattering of the
enemy forces handled?
This big crevasse opens and they all fall into it.
Does the recent stuff we read about Smeagol being truly evil play out?
There is one point where Smeagol and Gollum argue with each other.
Does any character die in the movie who did not die in the book?
No
Best of the 3 movies? Better than TTT at least?
Yes, but I liked TTT more than FOTR
Is it an "action" movie or a "character" movie?
Both
How long is the Battle for the Pelennor fields?
Most of the film
Is it longer than Helm''s Deep?
Yes
Is there a lot of inter-cutting during the battle?
Yes
One question for me, will most who see it say to themselves...Yup this is worthy
of best picture???????? Meaning will critics, and general public be satisfied
also.
Hard to say, still reeling from the experience, but given the crowd's reaction,
they will be hard put to give it to anything else I've seen this year.
With regards to the arrival of the Corsair ships: Is it played out as if they
are the enemy reinforcements arriving?
Yes, but the audience wasn't fooled
Does Aragorn cross swords with the King of the Dead?
Yes
Could you describe Shelob in detail. Hw big was she (This one is killing me)?
How real did she look? Was she less than scary, as scary, or more than scary
than you thought she would be?
Her body's the size of a VW Beetle give or take, but her legspan is quite
bigger. She was the most terrifying giant spider I've seen on celluloid, but
then, I'm arachnophobic.
How was the Shelob's Lair scene to you? How did you feel about it?
Like I said, terrifying.
How was the Frodo and Shelob confrontaion? How was the Sam and Shelob
confrontation?
There is a point where Shelob sneaks up on Frodo that will have you falling off
the edge of your seat. Sam's confrontation is one of the applause points. And,
no, he doesn't use the elvish rope in any way.
Does Aragorn "battle" the Army of the Dead in any way, or does he verbally
convince them to follow him as in the book?
There is a clashing of swords, but that's it.
Given the absence of MoS at the Black Gates, does the climax suffer from a lack
of any large scale enemy at the end? Or is it done well enough that the film
doesn't need one?
It's fine.
Obviously this would be an approximation, but how long would you guess the movie
runs on for after the destruction of the ring takes place?
Maybe 10 min?
Do Frodo and Sam get captured by Orcs on their way to Mount Doom as in the book?
No
And a related question, once Sam rescues Frodo from Cirith Ungol, approximately
how much time is spent on their trek to Mount Doom? Do they get there quickly,
or do you get the sense that they've been travelling for a long while?
Well, Shelob appears quite late, most of their Mordor trek happens while the
battle at the gates rages.
In your opinion, does the Grey Havens sequence come off as "cheesy" at all, or
is it as emotional powerful as most of us expect?
Cheese free if you're not too jaded. I'm quite jaded, but I was moved to tears.
Do the 3 hunters return to the Hornburg? If so, is Aragorn shown lookng in the
Palantir? If not, is Aragorn shown looking in the Palantir at another location.
I'm assuming it will probably be at Edoras since that is where Merry is shown
pledging allegiance to Theoden in the trailer.
No, there is no Helm's Deep, Aragorn never looks in the palantir, and Merry
doesn't pledge allegiance.
Is it immediately obvious that Dernhelm is Eowyn?
Yes
Does Gandalf shout "The Eagles are coming! The Eagles are coming!?"
Pippin does
Do the Rohirrim shout "Death!" as they charge?
Don't remember
How much time is spent establishing pre-siege Minas Tirith?
Not too much
Does the WiKi look silly, or really boss?
Boss
Is Frodo shown writing the Red Book?
Yes
Did the crowd enjoy it?
Yes
Are the catapulted heads in?
Yes
Does Aragorn look into the palantir and show Anduril to Sauron?
No
Is Sam a ringbearer and is this mentioned by Frodo at the Grey Havens as it is
in the books?
He takes the ring but Frodo doesn't mention it.
Does Gollum do what he does in the book on the stairs of Cirth Ungol -- return
to find Frodo asleep and then go to caress him, possibly turning good
again...before Sam wakes up and catches him?
No
Does Sam find pity in his heart for Gollum on Mount Doom -- you know the scene
I'm talking about, Gollum comes running after them jumps on Frodo and then Frodo
throws him down and threatens to kill him. Then Frodo goes to the Sammath Naur
and Sam is left to deal with Gollum -- but he has pity for him and cannot kill
him?
No
On the whole, do you feel the Frodo or Sam came off as the main hero of the
film, or was it a combination of the two?
I'd say Sam
Does PJ try to fool the audience into thinking that Frodo is actually dead
post-Shelob?
Yes
Denethor jumps out a window on fire?
Not a window, he runs through the courtyard with the white tree and jumps off at
the end.
How heartbreaking is The Choices of Master Samwise?
Quite
Is it clear that he is making a heart-wrenching decision to leave Frodo behind?
No, he cries at Frodo's apparent death then hears the orcs coming and hides. We
think that the orcs get the ring until Sam shows it to Frodo
For the love of God please tell me WiKi utters his famous line to Eowyn; "Come
not between the Nazgul and his prey or he will not slay thee in they turn. He
shall bear thee away to the houses of lamentation. Beyond all darkness. Where
thy flesh shall be devoured and thy shrivelled mind be left naked before the
lidless eye." Or at the very least something to that effect.
Something to that effect
So if Eomer is not shown to become king, what is the resolution of Rohirrim
politics, if any?
Good point, none really. I guess we assume Aragorn will take care of them.
Did the scene where Gollum confronts Frodo and Sam on the slopes of Mt. Doom
make it into the movie at all? Or does he just show up as Frodo claims the ring
for himself?
It's there
There has been a recent picture of Aragorn in Kingly armour on his horse while
it is rearing up on its hind legs [which I love] Is this picture from footage in
the movie?
Dunno
Is the Pelennor Fields battle brilliant/good/mediocre?
Brilliant
What are the 4 best scenes/highlights of the film for you?
Shelob, Eowyn/Wiki, Ring destruction, Grey Havens
Does Gandalf have some good strategy scenes? Does he talk with Aragorn and Co.
about what to do?
Some, not too detailed. Aragorn is the real strategist. It's his idea to go to
the gates.
Are some of Gandalf’s great lines spoken to Denethor [from the book] in the
film? Is the dialogue good between Gandalf and Denethor?
It's far more tense. They pretty much argue the whole time
Does the tension build well? And does the story give "payoff" to the tension?
Yes
How are the digital/SFX scenes? Do they detract at times and pull you out of the
story?
Great and no
Did you like the way the Army of the Dead is depicted artistically and
practically, eg. the way they looked and acted?
Yeah, not blown away, but it worked
Is Sam shown to be truly heroic in his love for Frodo?
Oh, yes
How is Frodo & Sam taken from Mordor after destroying the Ring? Eagles?
Gandalf goes to get them on the eagles
How do they eagles turn up? Are they summoned by the big G?
Yes, with the moth
So does the Pyre scene still take place in the Tombs?
Yes
Who really stands out?
FOTR had Boromir
TT had Gollum
ROTK has ...
I'd say the hobbits
How do you like the score?
Phenomenal
Are the Gollum sneak attack and the Gorbag Shagrat capture in?
Yes
Is the Witch-king's voice the same as FOTR?
Yes
With the heads being catapulted into Minas Tirith, how close does this movie
come to being an R movie? Do we see a close up of the heads or are we just given
an off screen action/noise to assume they are heads.
No close ups, but we know they're heads
Oh, with the Denethor thing. He chooses to set himself on fire correct? Does the
running into the courtyard feel contrived, cheesy, bad? Or just an "OMG what
have I done, this hurts like hell" can't help but run type of thing?
Can't help but run. He's also pretty upset that Pippin pulls Faramir from the
pyre.
You said the eye now has a headlight.... Does this imply what I think it means?
Is it kinda like Smaug’s eyes in the animated hobbit?
Heh, heh. Maybe a little. But it's less cheesy
Does this movie leave you breathless ? Do you come out changed ?
Breathless, not changed.
How is Pippin's looking into the Palantir handled? Is it clear that he is in
danger?
Oh, yes, it seems to almost be in flames in his hands. After he drops it,
Aragorn tries to grab it and drops it. Gandalf needs to wrap it up to settle it
down.
Is Aragon's line from the trailer about fighting to give Frodo a chance in the
movie?
Yeah
Is Cirith Ungol scary? Is it pretty much the same as the books, with Sam
singing?
No Sam singing that I remember.
How long does the movie feel? Were there parts were you were thinking, "Less
fighting, more Frodo/Sam/Gollum"?
I was wondering when we'd get back to Frodo from time to time.
Is Pippin still crushed beneath the troll?
Not that I remember, but one steps on Aragorn.
You mentioned that there are around ten minutes after the ring is destroyed.
Does the movie seem to come to a conclusion, or do you want more of an epilogue?
No, if anything, I think it could wrap up even quicker, but after three 3+ hour
films, I'd say they deserve a little denouement.
How is the Elrond delivering Anduril scene?
Very moving (and phallic, but that stands to reason)
Is Arwen beautiful for the wedding?
Schwing!
Does Aragorn sing in Elvish at his Coronation?
Not that I remember
Do we see the boat sailing off into the mist at the Grey Havens?
Yes
Is Galadriel at the Grey Havens?
Yes
What did women at the screening think?
My gf is the only one I spoke too, and she loved it.
How is Viggo's overall performance? Does it merit an Oscar Nom in best actor or
supporting actor? Or does Sean Astin deserve this?
Astin's better
Are there wargs at the Pelennor Fields?
Yes
How are the epic cinematography shots? Are there brilliant long shots to give
the scope and full impact of what is happening?
Yes
Does Arwen give Frodo the Evenstar, like in the book?
No
How is Gollum biting Frodo's finger off handled? Is it rather bloody?
Yes
How many eyes does Shelob have?
Couldn't tell, it was pretty dark
Could you give a very detailed description on how Shelob looks (face/head,
abdomen/body, legs)?
I gotta be honest, I'm arachnophobic, so I didn't look at Shelob with any great
detail.
Does Theoden have any parting words after he is struck down by WiKi?
Yes
Any Pukel men or Ghan Buri Ghan?
No
Do Sam and Frodo disguise themselves as Orcs?
Yes
What happens to Eowyn and Merry after the Witch-King dies?
Merry & Pippin reunite, Eowyn watches Theoden die in her arms. That's about it.
Do their swords break? Do they appear hurt? Does Theoden have any last lines?
The shield breaks at least. They do appear hurt and yes, Theoden says goodbye to
Eowyn
How does the post-Mt. Doom section flow?
Quickly
How do they transition from Aragorn's coronation to the Shire?
A dissolve
Is there mention of Frodo's wound?
Yes
How is Sam marrying Rosie portrayed?
The four hobbits are having an awkward drink at the Green Dragon. Sam sees Rosie
and goes to get her while the other three chuckle to themselves. Dissolve to the
wedding, Pippin catches the bouquet.
Does Gandalf say "I will not say, 'Do not weep,' for not all tears are evil"?
Yes
Is it a better film than the Rankin/Bass animated classic?
A little
Is there any Boromir content in the movie. Does anyone talk about him - Pippin,
or Denethor, maybe? Are there any flashbacks including him?
Just a flashback of his death.
Does Aragorn kill the troll that steps on him?
Yeah
In general, how much was Aragorn in the movie? As much as the previous two, or
less?
Believe it or not, maybe a little less, but not too much less
How does the Grond and the breaking of the Gate play out?
There's this mega-ginormous Grond slamming against the doors as thousands of
orcs chant "Grond...Grond...Grond!"
Do we get to see Eomer finding his uncle dead and his sister wounded on the
field?
No
Does Sam get his "Don't go where I can't follow" line when he thinks Frodo is
dead.
Don't think so
I have to ask this question, though I fear the answer... does Frodo come off as
heroic in any way shape or form, or is he simply made to look pitiful?
I hate to say it, but Sam's the man, not Frodo.
Does Frodo sending Sam home even seem plausible in the context of the movie?
Oh, yes. Gollum convinces Frodo that Sam's stealing lembas and wants the ring
for himself.
Is there a scene post Pelennor where it shows Aragorn being dressed in the armor
that he wears to the Black Gate. Does he recite a poem like Theoden if so?
Not really. Not that I remember at least.
How far into the movie does the Pelennor Fields battle start?
45 min or so
And what is the "beginning move" of the battle?
The return of Faramir's wounded body I'd say. It's not as clear cut as Helm's
Deep.
Did the scene with Pippin singing (intercut with Faramir's suicide charge) make
the final cut? If so, what did you think of it?
Yes. It was great.
About Shelob, although you say it was hard for you to get a good look at her, do
you remember seeing much of her fangs, or was it just the stinger that she
fought with?
She has fangs and fights with the stinger.
What do you think of the flow and the editing of the film? Do you think that
adding VOS would lead to pace issue?
I think it might very well have.
Is the "Ride now! Ride to ruin and the world's ending!" line in the film. And if
so, who says it?
Dunno
Could you please tell me how Arwen and Aragorn meet up?
At his coronation
What happens to the Evenstar?
'Gorn keeps it
Is there any resolution with Gimli and Legolas?
At the gates, Gimli says it's ironic that he'll die side by side with an elf and
Legolas says, "you mean with a friend."
Are the Arwen scenes boring?
They're pretty short
Do we see Narsil being reforged?
Yes
Do we get to see Frodo's neck cut?
Barely
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i'm a SAP consultant / programmer working for a large service provider (electricity, gas, water, waste ...) of my hometown
before that i studied CS w/ a major in Business Science but i broke off after my children (twins - nowadays aged 6) where born.
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@Klaas
yep horses definitely rule
my wife lived on a farm when she was young - but her father sold it (that dumb***). so last year i took pity (or better was persuaded) and granted her this big wish of owning her personal horse.
the thing is ... the horse was already pregnant - only then no one knew - seems like some enterprising stallion made a romp over some obstacles (fences, streets ...) and visited the farm where our horse-to-be was held and sort of "introduced" himself on her
the result was my little colt being born this year on April 12th. so its my job now to teach the young one some manners. i've got a good mentor at the stable where our horses are. he just finished working and educating his 4 year old stallion - did all by himself - and he's now teaching me the way to gain enough trust and respect from the horse, so that we have a fulfilling man-horse relationship. in time my Chirin will come to me by a mere whistle. currently she comes to me (sometimes
) at a mere wave of hand ... but i'm learning - and so is sheall in all - a wonderful relaxing hobby
suilad
-Bernd
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whoa ... now i've got to enter my pets into the growing WFG Zoo
we've got a cat called Cookie
5 degus (killer-rodents from Chile
)2 horses (Rain - my wife's horse and her colt named Chirin - which is mine)
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3 words for that: HA HA HA
i'm sure the enslaved hard-drives will be most gratious
this must be a "joke" that got out of hand.
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i'd say stone walls look more dwarvish ... they'd haul stones from a quarry ... not make mundane bricks
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0E - 0B = 03 (hex)
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Salma Hayek ... now thats a hottie ... and i'll spare you my comments about brit & co ...
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Glamdring! all the way ... pure elegance and it was the sword of Turgon (King of Gondolin) !
btw ... i was able to inspect many many swords at a very close range (~ 1 ft distance when i was almost pressing my nose against the glass of the exhibit-showcase) during my visit at the LotR-Exhibit in London
the movies DON'T do the props justice ... every piece is crafted w/ extreme love for detail
i'll list some of the swords/weapons displayed there
* Glamdring
* Shards of Narsil
* Herugrim
* Elronds Sword (later also used by Arwen *ahem*)
* Aeglos (Gil-galad's Spear !!!)
* Aragorn's (Ranger) Sword
* Sting
* Gimli's Axes (all 5 of them)
* Legolas' Daggers (and Bows)
* Boromir's Sword
* Saurons Mace
* Elven Daggers (given to Merry & Pip)
* various Orc-scimitars
* Uruk Swords (single hand and the T-Sword w/ a whopping length of 1,5m)
* Elven 2Handers (from the Prologue)
* Gondorian 2nd & 3rd Age Swords
* various Rohirrim Swords
and thats just the weapons
suilad
-Bernd
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@Elf
initially they were planning on making the Orcs CGI ... so that explains the more exotic prototypes
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hockey ! where's hockey in your poll ?
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happy bday SUD! have phun w/ your all-new LotR-goodies
suilad
-Bernd
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another one in the 21++ category
scary 30 years on my back here - gah i feel old w/ all you Entings around
suilad
-Bernd
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so there ... i did it and bought my kids a Gamecube bundle along w/ Zelda Windwaker and Finding Nemo for a whopping 160 Euros. now i've gotta get a nice memory card and a second controller ... heh ... now my wallet starts bleeding
i gave it a whizz on saturday evening and rather liked it - setup is pretty easy and done in a few minutes ... plus the size is a big bonus for me (us) as my son can easily pack it up in his trolley and venture off to the grandparents so that me and my wifey have some time off
anyway ... there is a possibility of connecting up to 8 GC's using the Broadband-Adapter for LAN-play (needing a hub of course). playing over the internet is very under-developed because the only title that currently supports Online Play for the GC is Phantasy Star Online ... but that may change in the near future.
@Brian
any good game for a consule ends up being released on PC, just like Vice Cite, Halo, GTAIII, etc. Therefore, PC is still the best.yep - of course you are right - but it frees up MY pc when the kids want to play ... i just send them off into the living room
suilad
-Bernd
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i just rewatched TTT:EE w/ my brother-in-law (fellow Tolkien geek - not as hopeless as myself though
) and i was curious to see his first-time reaction.he was similiarly startled as myself ... and for me ... rewatching the scene didn't improve it ... i merely (consciously) discovered the rough cut that blends into the normal scene w/ the white simbelmyne ... i think this as one extended scene that should have not made its appearance in the EE
one other thing - we were watching the documentary on the fourth disc called "Cameras in Middle-earth" ... there was a planned scene where Elijah Wood was transformed in something like a pre-gollum - a scene which should take place after Filmamir (errm Faramir) finds out about the Ring ... luckily they decided against using it ... phew!
suilad
-Bernd
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@Elf
yep - i can relate to your reaction about Eowyn's singing ... i was quite thrown off the hook by it ... i just looked at my wife and said
"wtf ..."it IS strange ... i fully expected some of Howard Shore's grand themes ... but this solo by Eowyn is ... is strange ... i've got to rewatch it once i get more time (probably the weekend)
if you want that bit of sound you could just try to grab the audio-stream ... there is lots of sites which have programs that do that kind of thing.
suilad
-Bernd
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plain text is the way_to_go
i don't like all this flashy bright and shiny html-mail-junk. and no rtf please.
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good thread idea
one problem shane - i never ever can't see your posted images - i think you should use another webhost - your geocities-account too quickly exceeds its traffic-limits
suilad
-Bernd
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so after digesting (sleeping) after watching TTT:EE last nite here are my thoughts (may contain some spoilers for those of you who haven't seen it yet)
i also have some mixed feelings about the EE, but all things considered i still think its an improvement over the theatrical version, which remains IMO still the butchered version. The EE didn't amend any qualms i have w/ the "we-dont-stick-with-the-book"-narrative ... but hey - i'll have to check out the directors commentary track before i make a final verdict ... so thats your last chance to defend yerself PJ
but let me elaborate ...
the more often i saw the theatrical version the more i began to dislike it. especially the ending w/ the rash wrapping up of all loose ends in less than 5 minutes was an injustice to the material. this is handled much better in the EE. PJ allows the movie to flow in a more leisurely way - which is a good thing because the 'butchered' version tended to rush things along and thus loosing the "magic" of the story
i've made some notes during watching (i hope i didnt forget anything) - i'll now feature some of the extended scenes which lept right at me and screamed "looksie i'm all shiny and new"
1) Elven Rope
great addition - makes the intro into the movie more leisurely after the "dramatic" plunge of Gandalf & Balrog into the depths of Moria. good scene w/ the elven rope and its becoming undone
2) Taming of Sméagol
Gollum is great - and new Gollum scenes are great too - a good depiction on Gollum's state of mind at the beginning of his "servitude" - works for me
3) The Uruk-hai
finally its cleared up why there are other orcs than the boys from Isengard in the horde ... although its not made 100% clear that they were sent from Mordor. and a nice scene w/ the orc-draught
4) The Burning of Westfold
good background scene - Saruman is facing logistic problems and solves it by hewing down trees from Fangorn - which makes the later scene when Treebeard sees the devastation near Isengard more believable. also some Dunlandish chieftain swears fealty to Saruman ... and new scenes w/ Saruman are always great.
OTOH the refugee-
-scene and Saruman's voiceover while standing over the Palantír are still lame story vehicles .... but then that was also in the theatrical version ...5) Massacre at the Fords of Isen
in itself not bad - the bookworms will know how and when and why - for the uninitiated its just further proof that Saruman has begun to play ball. Eomer also finds the helmet he later tosses in front of Theoden and Grima.
6) Banishment of Eomer
nice addition - makes it kind of official
7) Night Camp At Fangorn
some smaller additions - more trouble w/ them pesky orcs from Mordor
8) The Passage Of The Marshes
a very good addition - Gollum is feeling hungry, eats a worm and gets to taste some Lembas *cough*cough*
9) The White Rider
some more lines (almost) straight from the book
10) The Song Of The Entwives
some (bad) poetry from Treebeard ... puts the hobbits to sleep ... me too *yawn*
11) The Heir Of Númenor
a pivotal scene where many things are explained - a glimpse of it was already in some TTT Preview (don't remember which) - but again it was axed for the theatrical release - this scene is far superior to Sarumans voice-over while using the Palantir earlier on.
12) Ent Draught
funny scene involing Pip and Merry and some Ent booze ... i wasn't too thrilled w/ the Old-Man-Willow-Clone and Treebeards Bombadil impersonation
13) The Funeral Of Théodred
i'm undecided on the necessity of this scene - Eowyn singing scared me ... and the rough cut to the next scene is a slap in the face ... ah well ... could be omitted this one
14) Brego
Aragorn the horse-whisperer - Eowyn discovers Aragorn is not just some lump, but some lump who was raised in Rivendell
15) The Ring Of Barahir
yay ... Grima and Saruman ... another worthy addition ... Grima reeks of horse-dung and Saruman whips out one his books about ancient jewelry
16) A Daughter Of Kings
some more Aragorn/Eowyn scene ... nice
17) Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit
after capturing the Hobbits, Faramir ponders the death of one of the Southrons (stealing Sam's lines from the book) thus giving him a different entry into the movie (i like to call him Filmamir)
phew ... on to disc 2
18) One Of The Dunédain
a very nice addition on the growing Aragorn/Eowyn relation. she serves him some badly cooked stew - and Aragorn really shows how much of a hero he is. he also reveals his age to the surprise of Eowyn.
19) The Evenstar
Arwen intercepts Aragorn before he can sneak off from Rivendell without saying goodbye ("I'm not coming back") - just a minor addition
20) Sons Of The Steward
After the "invitation" of Frodo and Sam to Henneth Annún Faramir ponders his feelings about his brother Boromir. He mentions the cloven horn to F&S, we see him standing hip-deep in the Anduin as the funeral boat w/ Boromir passes by. Another flashback occurs where we see Boromir & Faramir at the now liberated Osgiliath having a
until their father Denethor comes along, mocks Faramir and bestows upon Boromir the quest to go to Rivendell and bring home the Weapon of the Enemy (before any Elf, Dwarf or Wizard can lay hands on it). Boromir does not want to leave Gondor, Faramir volunteers to go but is once again mocked and insulted by his father.This scene totally transforms the Filmamir of the theatrical version into something a bit more resembling the Bookamir
(sorry bad pun - i know). the drastic plot-changes still remain - but the character of Faramir makes a 180-degree turn and is (for me atleast) redeemed - in the film.21) The Forbidden Pool
Gollum gets a good beating from Faramir's men - and its now more believable why he breaks and his darker side begins to emerge again.
22) "Don't Be Hasty, Master Meriadoc !"
extended scene from the Ent-moot.
23) The Last March Of The Ents
we see Huorns marching off in the distance ... Treebeard mumbles something like "They have business with the Orcs" ... minor addition but leading up to ...
24) Fangorn Comes To Helm's Deep
finally ... the "finale" of the Battle of Helm's Deep. The Orcs flee into the strange forest. then for some seconds nothing happens. then the forest becomes alive !!! yay!
25) Flotsam And Jetsam
nice addition ... Merry & Pippin find a store-room w/ food and some "Old Toby"
Saruman and Grima observe the damage to Isengard from the balcony and M&P joke about the nice view
26) Farewell To Faramir
another redeeming scene for Filmamir. strangles Gollum and questions him about the way they are about to take. Gollum reluctantly reveals the pass of Cirith Ungol. Faramir warns F&S about some dark danger.
Sam tries to better his relationship w/ Gollum while in the sewers, but Gollum has a secret plan now ...
so thats roughly all new/extended scenes. personally i liked the flow on disc 1 better, but redeeming Faramir on disc 2 is the major improvement of TTT:EE over the theatrical version. i still don't like the many (unnecessary) changes made to TTT but the EE makes it easier for me to enjoy it as a movie
suilad
-Bernd
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my personal machine: AMD Athlon 2000+
spousal overunit's machine: INTEL Celeron 500mhz
router: INTEL P90 (!!!)
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W2K for workstations, barebone linux for router
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60 gig in two partitions, my wife has my old PC w/ a 20 gig drive. the router has got a whopping 850mb drive ... but then linux don't need much space now does it
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only my first PC (back in 1991) was from a store ... since then i always built them myself.
nowadays its a router and two workstations behind it.
**MASSIVE SPOILERS** for RotK-movie
in The Green Dragon
Posted
@adam ... it took me a while to get this again - because a minute after i found it on torn they took it down ... so i had to use my l33t w3b-skiLLz to reaquire the transcript
to my knowledge - no Dunharrow - Gandalf, Theoden, Aragorn & the rest of the gang reunite at Edoras and take it from there
Shagrat and Gorbag's orcs seem to fight - but Sam mops up the remaining ones *g* *ahem*
no Stone of Erech ... hey - what did you expect ... i heard about the Dead following Aragorn on to the fields of Pelennor and i already thought - well thats it for the Corsairs ... and i don't even expect an extended scene for this
beacons ? ... hmmm - don't know ... but why confuse the average movie-goer
drú-eh-what ? ... nah - don't think so ... would only complicate the plot
btw ... the official running time is 3h20mins (3h12 without credits) and he has a good 25% of TTT to include as well
i find it extremely cheesy that Pippin seems to find the Palantir at the feet of Orthanc in some pool ... i can understand Christopher Lee's reaction for leaving his scenes on the cutting room floor
but i'll judge the movie when i see it - but i'll leave my inner purist at home for the screening (promised my wife not to start a fuss again like in London
)
suilad
-Bernd