LetswaveaBook
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Posts posted by LetswaveaBook
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By the way. If you save a game and then load it again, it does not generate a correct replay file.
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1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
This right here is kind of shocking to me from a countering perspective. That the spear cav should take that much damage from a skirmisher.
I had made a post earlier pointing out the same thing. Javalins do 16*0.8*0.73=9.3 damage per second to the spear cav and spear cavalry do 7*0.8*0.9=5.04 damage per second to the skirmisher. so that means that the skirmisher does about 93 damage in the same time as a the spear cav does 50. If you add the fact that the Javelineer gets 1 hit before the spear cav reaches it, you get around 100 damage. There is a reason why spear cavalry is used scarcely. Also I ran 14 1v1 battles of an rank 1 infantry swordsman vs a rank 1 spear cavalry(160 HP) and in 4 out of 14 fights the swordsmen won with 2 HP and in 10 out of 14 fights they both died and it was a draw(as a note, the swordsmen got promoted during the fight, which gave the edge). I also had a similar post about the underperfoming spear cav earlier.
https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/39318-unit-counters/
47 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:I feel as long as the scout unit costs the same as a regular horse, it is ok for it to gather meat.
Depends on how the unit is designed. If it has the same cost but sacrifices combat ability for +10% speed, it would OK to gather meat.
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3 hours ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:
It should maybe move as quickly as sword cavalry.
I would go for a unit with less durability as a melee cavalry but more speed.
I think its attack should be large enough to do some easy pickings, but it should not be a proper combat unit. I think it should be able to kill a lone skirmisher. Also I like it to be decent for picking and being on par with that with other units, it should not be overly durable.
I ran a test with a spear cavalry vs a lone infantry javelineer and the spear cavalry would win and receive about 100 damage. The statistics of the scout are fairly comparable to that of the spear cavalry apart from the health and bonus multiplier. Since it is not real combat unit, it does not need hack armor.
I would push for 125 hit points and 10 crush, 1 hack, and 3 pierce armor and +10% speed compared to sword cavalry, 6 hack attack with repeat time of 1 (spear cavalry has 5.6 damage per second), so it would be fairly similar to thorfinns suggestion. Cost should be similar to other cavalry.
The hack attack could pose a treat vs. rams, so I am not sure about the hack attack.
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On 17/06/2021 at 11:28 PM, Yekaterina said:
An idea for scouts: knife cavalry
OK, I go on a mission to scout the opposing camp and I equip myself with : 1 a horse, 2 a knife.
seems good.
What also seems decent to me is to take an axe with you instead of the knife.
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On 17/06/2021 at 11:39 PM, wraitii said:
Would you happen to have the replay of that? The units should be able to unstuck themselves, but it's plausible in such situations that this doesn't happen because of the overall movement from everything.
I can provide the replay. The problem occur from 6:40 to 7:20 when I sort them out manually. For testing purposes, I should just had them let them be and see if they solved it by themselves, but instead I solved it manually.
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I just wanted to report that units might get stuck. I don't want to call it out as a bug, but it is something to notice. In the image, you see women near the metal that try to get to the wood, but can't find the path.
Also graphics look pretty cool, don't they?
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This world needs more women like @Yekaterina.
If you start a topic about windows, it will be spammed with linux chat.
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As a kid I thought Red Alert 2 Yuri's revenge was super cool.
After I got into competitive gaming and was used to hotkeys and returned to Red Alert 2, I felt the controls where horrible.
With RA3, it was reverse. I felt like how can you do all the things a player ideally wants to do. When returned later and was used to hotkeys, it suddenly felt good.
On 31/05/2021 at 7:23 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:A discussion on creating better tutorials for complex games.
If I think about complex games as Knights&Mercenaries or the stronghold series, where you need to manage your village, because if your food runs out it is trouble. The thing what new players can do, is only focus on the few features which are absolutely needed(getting food and the easiest units) instead of all features.
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4 hours ago, Yekaterina said:
Why Ubuntu is bad: when you type sudo apt-get install 0ad they give you A23!
I installed linux mint 20 several days ago, and it does the same!
On the other hand, if you look in the software manager, you see two files and A23 is downloaded from the repositories while you also have the option there to get A24 from play0ad.com.
To be honest, I like to be able to use wine. And after installing mint 20, the software manager does not correctly install wine. And all of that in the very moment I was feeling like monk-rushing someone on Voobly.
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Personally I think playing a faction with spear cav is interesting, as it is the faster unit and with its better defenses, it is nice for raiding. I would like to see more than just Romans and Macedonians starting with a spear cavalry in p1. What we could do as a minor change, is interchanging the Javelin cavalry as the starting cavalry with a spear cavalry for some civilizations. This would only affect p1 and thus can be seen as a minor change. For clarity, I would abstain from giving Seleucids a CS spear cavalry as that would not be a minor change and I prefer subtle changes.
Available factions with a spear cavalry in p2 are Iberians, Kushites, Persian and Spartans.
If I had to make a choice, I would go for Spartans. I know how some historians feel about Spartan cavalry, but Spartan cavalry is in the game and why should their starting cavalry be a javelin cavalry?
On top of that, there is 1 faction that only gets a single CS cavalry in the form of a camel archer. From the 12 remaining factions, 6 of them have CS spear cavalry and only 2 have them in the CC. There are 11 factions with a CS javelin cavalry and 10 out of these 11 factions start with a CS javelin cavalry. I think we change that for one of these factions.
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14 hours ago, chrstgtr said:
Better to fix what exists than to delete what is unique.
I agree with that and I think we should try Maurya and Persians to keep their flavour.
I would prefer to look at other ways, like increasing champion elephant cost. Then we could get gameplay where elephants are stong, but due to their cost they need to be used careful and saved where possible. If elephants get nerfed, then Maurya and Persians are more affected by their lackluster siege department.
1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:In a typical TG it means the Mauryan can field 20 more units in a fight than the others, and more troops than opponent = higher kd. By default, every soldier aim at random enemy units instead of focusing on just one (unless you order them to), so more units = less wound per unit, so the formation can maintain high fire output for a longer time, meanwhile, the player with slightly less units will see their soldiers dying very quickly after some time.
This is not just the issue for Maurya and Persians, but in any case where you are outnumbered, this will be true for ranged units. My suggestion would be to nerf ranged units.
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I played as Seleucids against Britons. I would gladly learn about the best strategies for each faction, but it seems to me Britons have a hard time against Seleucids in A24. Anyone looking at it differently?
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On 02/06/2021 at 3:04 PM, StarAtt said:
Open a terminal, simply copy this entirely and paste:
sudo apt update && sudo apt install subversion build-essential cmake libboost-dev libboost-system-dev \ libboost-filesystem-dev libcurl4-gnutls-dev libenet-dev libfmt-dev \ libgloox-dev libicu-dev libminiupnpc-dev libnvtt-dev libogg-dev \ libopenal-dev libpng-dev libsdl2-dev libsodium-dev libvorbis-dev \ libxml2-dev python rustc zlib1g-dev wx3.0-headers libwxbase3.0-dev libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-dev libwxbase3.0-0v5 libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-0v5 -y && svn co https://svn.wildfiregames.com/public/ps/trunk/ 0adsvn && cd 0adsvn/build/workspaces && ./update-workspaces.sh -j3 && cd gcc && make -j3 && cd ../../.. && binaries/system/testenter your password and wait until it says "...............OK!" and you can find pyrogenesis in binaries/system/
You can learn terminal during the build though.
Just to list some of my adventures on it. I initially thought that when I saw a program called pyrogenesis.exe, I had to use wine. I also tried to do in the terminal cd 0adsvn/binaries/system/ and then type pyrogenesis, but then on my OS, the pyrogenesis variant did call the 0ad version which is in the mint repositories. What did work was using 0adsvn/binaries/system/pyrogenesis
Initially I thought that I probably messed to much with my OS, which results in me now having a brand new Mint 20 installed instead of Mint 19. I wanted to upgrade anyway.
I did play the subversion and the graphics look great. I must admit that on the a24 version, I put the graphics on low to boost performance, so I might not do a fair comparison. Age of Empires 4 has been shown on E3 and their fans would be spoiled if only it looked as good as 0AD.
The path-finding also seemed good, but on the other hand I did not push it to the limit either.
So from my first game, it is big plus for A25. If only mercenaries were well balanced...
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I am fine with Yaunā, the Old Persian word for Ionians, Macedonians, and Greeks. We have 3 Greek factions and 2 successor states and on top of that the word also refers to Persians.
I couldn't be really bothered myself with thinking about a name, but Yaunā seems cool.
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1 hour ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:
How is this counterable without cavalry?
Siege and garrisoning your units in ramms or once you capture buildings. Make sure the captured territory is connected to your territory root and build sentry towers to maintain control.
Maybe archers can run away, but the territory can be captured.
Also not only are archers the most mobile infantry type, they are on the other side also the least mobile. Archers are effective in large groups, not in small ones. That means an archer player needs to keep his units grouped in one spot and can't as easily split up his infantry archers. So you might try to attack from multiple sides and see on which side you can gain territory. I played a game vs. Chrisgtr and I had cavalry archers that he could never defeat. He won in the end by attacking me from various sides. Whenever my cavalry archers were targeted to deal with a treat, Chrisgtr was all-ready attacking somewhere else and retreating the troops I was targeting. That game is another example of the fact that you can win by continuously taking territory of you opponent.
Disappointingly, one medium sized maps, the groups of trees are so large that one group of them is enough for the entire game.
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@wowgetoffyourcellphone, I have found some game changing features for you!
Don't know if this is the way you want to go either.
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First I would like to say, suppose it is solved.
Then an opposing unit attacks while chasing a fleeing unit. If the fleeing unit runs all over the map, you would get a lot of attack sounds. That might be annoying.
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2 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:
I also don't see how you could abuse this.
I think it is likely to open some abusive possiblities. How about using the follow command and then not touching the archers but rather move the unit that is being followed?
Also your idea feels to me as trying to prevent people from managing their archers, which I find peculiar.
It can lead to wierd gameplay, suppose the enemy puts his hero in front of the troops, then the archers start shooting the hero. If the hero retreats, then the archer player has to prevent his archers from following the hero and hence accuracy ruined. Wouldn't that be fun?
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1 minute ago, Dizaka said:
Maiden guards are rarely used. Partly b/c they can't be build in barracks so you have only 1 production source.
I like to use them. With their poison they are stronger than most archer champions and the poison ignores armor, making the more useful against pikemen and elephants.
You can't train a lot of them, but even if you have just 10 that might help.
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37 minutes ago, alre said:
elephants are being nerfed, right?
https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/25721
Also I did some 11 minute boom tests and I compared my Seleucid vs maurya boom. Maurya has of course the advantage, but it was not as large as I expected. I don't think there is one thing that makes Maurya OP, but there are several conveniences that all add up.
Anyways, Ptolemies might be as dangerous in 1v1s.
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4 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:
do you think my values are reasonable?
The values can always be adjusted so the values are not the problem.
What could be a problem is the concept.
1 It basically means that if you do one missclick and move the archers, you ruin your accuracy.
2 Also it seems to be a fairly buggy and abusable concept. Since if units only lose accuracy when they are ordered to, there might be players that find exploits on how to avoid losing accuracy when moving units. So even if you find a way to implement it, you need to double check if there are no exploits.
3. If units lose accuracy after moving, you have difficulty to chase an escaping unit and hit it reliably.
All in all, unless you get a really good code for it, it seems to open more ways to exploit the system than the system is worth in the first place. With how prevalent range units are, it might have the consequence of turning 0AD into a game of exploiting the ranged unit accuracy system. If you can guarantee that there are no such exploits, we could continue the discussion. First I would like to see proof of concept before we can discuss if it is actually applicable to the game.
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8 hours ago, chrstgtr said:
This is all to say that development, at times, has been shattershot. Changes have been implemented to make something different and perfect in the very first attempt. And, when perfect was missed the target of perfect was adjusted to something new.
Instead, I think development should be more incremental. Is it frustrating at times? Of course. But it is less volatile and less likely to lead to large swings that create unanticipated problems.
I think this game has players, but few balance testers. What really needs to happen for A25 is that some people do a balance overhaul, post it for convenience on mod.io and see if it is well received. Currently there are only a few mods that change balance and for the 'consumer players' they are a little hassle to get going. From as far as I know, there is no major justification for strength of the archer buff from A23 to A24(It came in 3-fold with speed, damage and accuracy). I think if there was more testing, then archers would not have been that powerful on A24. For A25 we have https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/25624 but no one has tested if it benefits balance. I think we need more testing for balance changes. Otherwise it will always be a shattershot.
12 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:On the contrary, I feel like a game changing feature hasn't been implemented in ages.
Rotation times to stop perfect hit and run and dancing. Also unit pushing for A25 could have real potential. However these features are nice for competitive players even though they have limited visual appearance.
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4 minutes ago, maroder said:
Strong support for this idea.
There are the players who like the a23 gameplay and want it refined through small incremental balancing changes and there are other players who want to have new mechanics and a different more experimental gameplay style. And it is obviously not possible to do that at the same time.
So we could have a game setup option called "classic" or "Empires Ascendant" and one that is called "experimental" or "Empires Extended".
With this we don't split the community, because you could decide each match, what gameplay you want. Also: one "official" experimental mod is much easier to maintain as multiple small mods that are maintained by different persons and not integrated from the beginning.
I support the idea of letting players actively chose which mode they want to play.
In A24, people complain how one thing is bad. I don't really understand it, because if it is bad, why not solve it by a mod? Also I think in the lobby it should be convenient to switch mods and try out different things.
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6 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:
so 25 spear cav are cheaper than 5 cataphracts
For 25 spear cavalry you need 1750 food and 850 food more than you need for 5 cataphracts for which you need 500 metal. I agree that metal is more expensive, but not that expensive. I think a cataphract is something like 2.2-3 times as expensive as a spear cavalry, provided that all things are reasonable.
I know there are people that like to trade 100 wood/food for 25 metal at the market, but that does not mean 100 wood/food is worth 25 metal.
Is this supposed to be?
in Gameplay Discussion
Posted
I captured a sentry tower in p1 as Britons and I had cavalry and dog, so I thought lets garrison that tower to use it as a staging point for future raids. Then this happened, the tower had 3 slinger garrisoned but lost loyalty. I think this is the result of celtic structures being easier to capture.