Wijitmaker

That does sound easier, there is a lot of clutter in this rig Daniel try replacing the DEF- with ORG- <visual_scene id="Scene" name="Scene"> <node> <node name="root"> <node org="ORG-hips"> <node org="ORG-spine"> <node org="ORG-ribs"> <node org="ORG-neck"> <node org="ORG-head"> </node> <node def="DEF-head"> </node> </node> <node org="ORG-shoulder.L"> <node org="ORG-upper_arm.L"> <node org="ORG-forearm.L"> <node org="ORG-hand.L"> <node def="DEF-hand.L"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-forearm.L.01"> </node> <node def="DEF-forearm.L.02"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-upper_arm.L.02"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-shoulder.L"> </node> <node def="DEF-upper_arm.L.01"> </node> <node name="upper_arm_pole.L"> </node> </node> <node org="ORG-shoulder.R"> <node org="ORG-upper_arm.R"> <node org="ORG-forearm.R"> <node org="ORG-hand.R"> <node def="DEF-hand.R"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-forearm.R.01"> </node> <node def="DEF-forearm.R.02"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-upper_arm.R.02"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-shoulder.R"> </node> <node def="DEF-upper_arm.R.01"> </node> <node name="upper_arm_pole.R"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-neck"> </node> <node name="shoulder.L"> </node> <node name="shoulder.R"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-ribs"> </node> </node> <node org="ORG-thigh.L"> <node org="ORG-shin.L"> <node org="ORG-foot.L"> <node org="ORG-toe.L"> <node def="DEF-toe.L"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-foot.L"> </node> </node> <node org="ORG-heel.L"> <node org="ORG-heel.02.L"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-shin.L.01"> </node> <node def="DEF-shin.L.02"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-thigh.L.02"> </node> </node> <node org="ORG-thigh.R"> <node org="ORG-shin.R"> <node org="ORG-foot.R"> <node org="ORG-toe.R"> <node def="DEF-toe.R"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-foot.R"> </node> </node> <node org="ORG-heel.R"> <node org="ORG-heel.02.R"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-shin.R.01"> </node> <node def="DEF-shin.R.02"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-thigh.R.02"> </node> </node> <node def="DEF-spine"> </node> <node def="DEF-thigh.L.01"> </node> <node def="DEF-thigh.R.01"> </node> </node> <node name="hand_ik.R"> </node> <node name="VIS-hand_ik.R"> </node> <node name="VIS-upper_arm_pole.R"> </node> <node name="hand_ik.L"> </node> <node name="VIS-hand_ik.L"> </node> <node name="VIS-upper_arm_pole.L"> </node> <node name="foot_ik.R"> <node name="foot_roll.R"> </node> <node name="thigh_pole.R"> </node> </node> <node name="VIS-foot_ik.R"> </node> <node name="VIS-thigh_pole.R"> </node> <node name="foot_ik.L"> <node name="foot_roll.L"> </node> <node name="thigh_pole.L"> </node> </node> <node name="VIS-foot_ik.L"> </node> <node name="VIS-thigh_pole.L"> </node> <node def="DEF-hips"> </node> <node name="torso"> <node name="ribs"> </node> <node name="hips"> </node> </node> </node> </node> Here is what the dae structure looks like simplified. Does blender have any documentation explaining further what the rig's setup is - what are the DEF, ORG, MCH, VIS supposed to mean? The problem with the DEF is that I don't understand the difference between the shin and forearm. Somtimes rigs have a 2 bone solution for that portion of the leg/bone to account for better motion with wrist rolls and angle twists. Maybe that is why? I'm not sure which one to pick - .01 or .02 Ben, sorry to beat a dead horse on this... but could you explain why did you think it was DEF and not ORG (my head is a bit thick )

Did your animation file have a mesh included with it - or was it all bones? I remember seeing a mesh. There is no difference between a .dae file that was saved for mesh purposes and those that were saved for animation purposes. When you call the .dae file out as a mesh in the actor it only looks at the mesh information in the .dae file. When you call out animation file in the actor it only looks at the animation portion of the .dae. It looks like you still have an issue with the skeleton. Humor me and give me your fisherman_paddling.dae file - even though you think it is the same as the fisherman.dae file you posted earlier.

Ok, taking a look here: file="infantry/general/forage.psa" & file="infantry/general/dude/dudeidle.psa" Those animations aren't going to work with your .dae file because they are intended to be used with the standard skeleton. Right now your using some sort of custom blender skeleton (which we need to fix in the future). So that is probably giving you an error. You also can't use m_pants_celt.dae because it is also using the default skeleton (not the custom blender skeleton you made). I doubt your prop points are going to work either. So lets just eliminate that questionable variable as well. So try this: 1) Place fisherman_paddling.dae in the skeletal mesh folder (where m_pants_celt.dae resides). 2) For testing purposes - change your actor to this: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> <actor version="1"> <castshadow/> <group> <variant frequency="100" name="Base"> <animations> <animation file="fisherman_paddling.dae" name="Idle" speed="30"/> <animation file="fisherman_paddling.dae" name="Walk" speed="30"/> </animations> <mesh>skeletal/fisherman_paddling.dae</mesh> </variant> </group> <material>player_trans.xml</material> </actor> Line 393 doesn't help with the skeleton file either... odd. Let me know what your new error is (I'm sure you'll get one).

Alright, so row 393 means nothing in the .dae file: It is simply </source> So, what is 393 in your skeleton.xml file? Also, could you share the code of your actor file?

I wondered, so fisherman_paddling.dae is the same as fisherman.dae?

This helps. Could you post the fisherman.dae file? Lets look at line 393. Also please share your current skeleton file your using.

Soo... the engine log doesn't give you any errors? Looking at this code again: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15552&view=findpost&p=233174 DEF- doesn't seem to apply to root. Try taking it off root. Also note that the structure I have above was based on the ORG- heirarchy. I'm not certain that the DEF- is the same (should be). You also shouldn't have to create your own seperate standard biped - but I suppose it was worth a shot

Daniel, try Ben's suggestion. Example: <bone name="shoulder.L"><target>l_clavicle</target> Add "DEF-" like this: <bone name="DEF-shoulder.L"><target>l_clavicle</target> Or try "ORG-" or "MCH-" It is odd, because the other skeleton rigs from blender (BlenderChicken as an example) in the skeleton.xml file don't call these out. This last weekend I tried getting a .bvh out of Max and into Blender - no luck. I was trying to export a .fbx from Max into Motion builder - then exporting a .bvh from MB to Blender. Something isn't working right. I'll give it a shot next weekend again. Also, it would be helpful to describe any errors the engine throws out at you. Hopefully the engine error would be descriptive enough to tell us what is breaking. Michael - I would have no objections.

Try this adding this to the skeleton.xml file and running it: <skeleton title="Blender biped" target="biped"> <identifier> <root>root</root> </identifier> <bone name="root"><target>root</target> <bone name="hips"><target>pelvis</target> <bone name="spine"><target>spine</target> <bone name="ribs"><target>spine1</target> <bone name="neck"><target>neck</target> <bone name="head"><target>head</target> </bone> </bone> <bone name="shoulder.L"><target>l_clavicle</target> <bone name="upper_arm.L"><target>l_upperarm</target> <bone name="forearm.L"><target>l_forearm</target> <bone name="hand.L"><target>l_hand</target> </bone> </bone> </bone> </bone> <bone name="shoulder.R"><target>r_clavicle</target> <bone name="upper_arm.R"><target>r_upperarm</target> <bone name="forearm.R"><target>r_forearm</target> <bone name="hand.R"><target>r_hand</target> </bone> </bone> </bone> </bone> </bone> </bone> <bone name="thigh.L"><target>l_thigh</target> <bone name="shin.L"><target>l_calf</target> <bone name="foot.L"><target>l_foot</target> <bone name="toe.L"> </bone> </bone> </bone> </bone> <bone name="thigh.R"><target>r_thigh</target> <bone name="shin.R"><target>r_calf</target> <bone name="foot.R"><target>r_foot</target> <bone name="toe.R"> </bone> </bone> </bone> </bone> </bone> </bone> </skeleton>

Ok, I parsed it and took out all the crap. I think it should look something like this. Now it just needs to be tagged and attributed correctly in the skeleton.xml file... then tested. Daniel, can you try that? <node name="root"> <node org="hips"> <node org="spine"> <node org="ribs"> <node org="neck"> <node org="head"> </node> </node> <node org="shoulder.L"> <node org="upper_arm.L"> <node org="forearm.L"> <node org="hand.L"> </node> </node> </node> </node> <node org="shoulder.R"> <node org="upper_arm.R"> <node org="forearm.R"> <node org="hand.R"> </node> </node> </node> </node> </node> </node> <node org="thigh.L"> <node org="shin.L"> <node org="foot.L"> <node org="toe.L"> </node> </node> </node> </node> <node org="thigh.R"> <node org="shin.R"> <node org="foot.R"> <node org="toe.R"> </node> </node> </node> </node> </node> </node> A simple text editor with a find/replace tool does wonders.

I can't get my dreamweaver to load... that is the tool I would use to go through and delete (find/replace) out all the attribute / element junk that isn't needed. Ben your right on Daniel, please bear with me and my computer issues.

I took a look at the .dae file and I think this is your heirarchy. I haven't broken it down, but I think you can parse it out to structure it to fit the format of the skeleton.xml file:

No worries. My point is not just to get animations from blender into the game, but to make them compatible with the existing human biped model and animations so that everything is shared and can be used by any person with a variety of software (Max, Maya, Blender, XSI, etc...). Getting any old animation into the game from blender shouldn't be hard Pureon has done that many times - it is getting it to be cross compatible which is trickier. It would be foolish to start creating a whole new batch of unique humanoid animations that are using a blender specific model. Unless this team thinks it has the resources to replace all the existing animations an models to make it common.

Ok, perhaps I can get the animation out as a .bvh file. This is generally a motion capture file type that is generated by some sort of motion capture device. Max takes that data and turns it into a .bip file, and that is what Character Studio uses as it's animation format. FYI there is a lot of .bvh files in our repository for you blender users to play with: http://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/art/trunk/art/animation/resources/bvh I'll see if I can get an export of a .bvh from max to blender with some sort of script (or tools, I think there must be something out there on the web for this).

I thought maybe the cubes would show you where the bone's joints should be located, and their size. I'll check out the .dae when I get home from work. Can a blender user answer the .FBX question? That could be a great format to transfer animation between Max and Blender.

For the unused animations... is it possible some of the files are duplicated and used in another folder? Many of them look like they are unused because we are waiting for return of the run/stamina feature. Animations are a precious commodity so I find it odd that any are not in use.

Ok, I've got Max working finally! Note to self: Thanks to this link - http://forums.cgsociety.org/archive/index.php/t-247858.html So, this is what an imported skeleton should look something like. I've included the geometry points for reference. skeleton_export.zip Does this help? I see blender has the ability to export a .fbx file? Is it capable of opening one as well?

Try exporting a .dae file and I think it could be used to read the names of the hierarchy structure as the .dae file sees it.

The source files for all the max animations are already in the Art SVN repository. Anyone with an active Max account should be able to reopen the .max files and export a .dae from it.

I'm afraid the best I can do is get you an export of what it should be like. I'll try to figure out how to do that. Though it might be easier said than done... My 3ds Max isn't working at the moment and I think I have to reinstall windows to get it up. I've got some cdilla issues.

Well, this that max does that might be a max only feature. For example, if I created two simple boxes (similar to like what is started with when blender opens up each time) and if I linked one box to another box... this effectively creates a hierarchical structure of bones. If you re-sized these boxes you could make it more like the shape of an... arm for example. Max then allows you to apply a modifier called "skin" to the mesh you want to modify with animation and define this simple hierarchy of boxes as the 'bones'. That is one option, the other option is to actually use the bones object in max that help automate a lot of things for you like scaling and IK constraints. Does blender allow you to create a hierarchy out of geometry that could later be turned into "bones" that would allow you to rig your model and apply envelopes and vertex weights - or are you forced to use bones?

Well, I took a look at blender tonight, and it looked as foreign to me today as it did 5 years ago. I was able to figure out how to import a .dae model (I picked one of the male tunics I think - they are all the same, so it doesn't matter). When I delete the mesh and look at the bone structure that was imported, it is awful. Bones aren't oriented correctly links are off... etc. I don't think the software's import is working so well. Anyway, there might be a way around that. Let me ask you blender guys this - can you make any object (geometry) a bone in blender or is a bone a unique sort of an object? If so, what I could do is export Character Studio's bones as a mesh and they could be imported and linked up in Blender later? The importer seems to do fine with geometry... Notice the bones orientation is off and the dotted line links between the bones. They look like one point is correct, but the other end of many of the bones in the spine area, the ends of the appendages, and the props are flying in the wind.

Just an FYI, the tool that was used prior to Atlas to make maps (SCNed) had the ability to import a black and white height map. It would be nice to have this functionality restored, enabling users not just to plug in RMS generated height maps, but also real world height maps (both at a continent level and at a battlefield level). Bryce was a neat old tool used to generate some great height maps, having some cool features like erosion. May be worth a look. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryce_%28software%29 (looks like there might be a free limited version out there?)

Similar to Michael's suggestion. Perhaps remove the hull of the ship (temporarily) while to get your rig set up. Once the oars look right, move the hull back into position.

I had another thought today on this reading the RMS map thread Michael posted about the problem of to many trees. Would it be any advantage in having a second 'forest dynamic border' (unvisible to the player) that is based on trees? This could possible block out clumps of areas that the pathfinder could omit from it's long pathfinder calcuations? This would be a Boolean default property in the actors that 90% of the units in the game would be constrained by. Dunno - not being a programmer, I'm purely conceptual. Just a thought, I have no idea if it would actually work in code