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mysticjim

0 A.D. Community Liaison
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Posts posted by mysticjim

  1. Autociv mod 0ad enhancer

    in Game Modification

    Posted

    Very interesting points. For the record, I observed two good games last night (the 2nd one will feature on the channel as this weeks game, btw) - and I observed closely if any of the players appeared to be autotraining. I'm somewhat pleased to say I don't think any of them did, and yet they matched what I could achieve in terms of rapid unit production with autotrain just by their own skill. That motivated me to practice a bit without autotrain in Single player - and using the insight I got from using autotrain, I was able to elevate my unit production. Not as good as with it, but it showed there are still lots of techniques that I simply haven't sussed. I feel much better knowing that. 

    It's a strange place to be in. I'll be honest, I actually really enjoy using both techniques, and it takes a slightly different skillset to develop your army each, and certainly adds an element to the game. As an experiment, maybe even a future episode on my channel, I might find an opponent willing to test out playing me using each method and see how differently the games pan out.

    However, in multiplayer generally, I'm going to trust that most players either aren't aware the option is there, or like me are willing not to use it as per the spirit of fair competition. I'll certainly know what to look for in the replays, though, if I come up against some training with near robotic abundance! I guess you're all right, there are always methods to circumvent the code and the spirit of any game, and 0AD is kind of set up for those exploits to be opened up if someone is so disposed. And we all know about those games that let players pay money to have what is clearly an unfair advantage. But 0AD is free and I hope that the vast majority of players do feel a greater sense of achievement through hard work and practice of the base game, rather than something that artificially supplements them in their areas of weakness. 

    And I feel really bad for the poor, unfortunate noob I toasted yesterday using autotrain! But I won't mention it if you guys don't! :) 

  2. Autociv mod 0ad enhancer

    in Game Modification

    Posted · Edited by mysticjim
    clicked wrong button!

    1 hour ago, odalman said:

    Rules only enforced by honesty have certainly been considered previously. For example players not looking at (and listening to) things that should be hidden from them in Widelands was discussed back in 2003-2004. It is trivial to modify such a game to see and hear everything. In just an evening, someone familiar with C++ but not with the 0 A.D. code can check out SVN, figure out which dependencies are needed and install them, get it all built, look around the code and find the places that need to be modified, change and test until it works. (Some things in the game might be hidden from the user by code written in JavaScript and would need some extra effort to modify.)

    The linked wiki page discusses how this could be solved by a client-server architecture, like FreeCiv has, and how much bandwidth might be needed. An idea not mentioned there is a hybrid approach, where a set of trusted servers run the simulation in parallel like 0 A.D. does now, and each can act as a server for clients nearby on the network. That could for example keep intercontinental network traffic low, while using more bandwidth on the shorter routes to the users, enforcing incomplete knowledge of the game state.

    Another approach that was not considered back in those years, was streaming the game (video and audio to the client, input back to the server). That would use immense amounts of bandwidth, which is actually available in many places nowadays, while enforcing incomplete knowledge and preventing many kinds of client-side game automation (like autotrain or logic to make units do something useful when they become idle), which some might consider to be cheats.

    In a real, here and now sense, where does this leave us? 

    In reality what is the etiquette when I join a multiplayer game? Should I willingly advise I have the mod and know full well how to use autotrain? How many other people actually use it? nani suggested that no pro player uses it to win a fight, but at the same time suggested that they do use it in some capacity.

     

  3. Autociv mod 0ad enhancer

    in Game Modification

    Posted

    9 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

    Auto train would indeed be cheating if only 1 player had access to it. 

    But being a mod, you could argue any player has the 'right' to access it if they choose. Also being a mod, there isn't a way to disable it in a game setup to ensure no one player benefits from it. It opens a contentious can of worms I'd not previously considered. :) It relies on player honesty. Thats never a good thing! 

    9 minutes ago, nani said:

    Wont deny it can be considered a cheat but I can assure you no pro player uses autotrain to win a fight, quite the contrary, having autotrain doesn't let you micromanage your resources precisely hence you eco will suffer from it. One thing they will do however is use it for the late game spamming and the very useful specific case: corrals, in fact I did add this feature because I wanted automatic corral production :P

    Strangely, I've found it totally helped my eco - certainly in the areas of the game where I struggle - which seems to be negotiating phase 2 into 3.  

    I may be an edge case, but I found it transformed my strategic play - in so much that I was able to devote more attention to the bigger picture, rather than having to monitor the fact that I was producing units or not. I knew I was by default unless I purposefully stopped it. 0AD feels, to me at least, almost like a different game when I play using it. And I find it strangely hard now when I try and match that performance without it, knowing that with autotrain I'd be a good 20-30 units up on what I can do manually. 

  4. Autociv mod 0ad enhancer

    in Game Modification

    Posted

    49 minutes ago, nani said:

    Very nice, I see you really liked the auto-assign, auto-train ones xd. As for APM I know is not very useful but i didn't find anyother way to measure the actions or what should be an action that can be measured with current code ...

    BTW, I don't know if you know but all the features are listed here:

    https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/24649-autociv-mod-0ad-enhancer/


     

     

    Hi nani,

    Yes, I really only targeted the most obvious features - it's pretty impressive just how many things you've crammed into the mod. It's a piece of work for sure :) 

    One thing that has come up in the comments on Youtube - the autotrain feature - honestly, is it cheating? I've been testing it, and I'm producing at a far higher rate than I could ever manage using my own limited 0AD playing skills!!!!! I just crushed an opponent through sheer weight of numbers where otherwise it would have been a very close game. 

    I feel if everyone had access to it within the core game it would be fair enough. But If I know my opponent doesn't use it, am I willingly giving myself an unfair advantage? And if I choose not to use it on principle, I know I'm going to get wiped out by an opponent who does.

    It calls into question how many games I've lost against players because of this feature? I'm not a great player, make absolutely no mistake, but looking back at replays where I've been dumbfounded about far behind I've fallen in unit production really quickly, it makes me wonder! :) 

  9. 0 A.D. on YouTube

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    23 minutes ago, Noobgame said:

    When tou going to do a Noob match? I am noobgame, have a good day =)

    Well, most of the games I've covered (with a few exceptions) always features players of a rating of 1500 or lower. I love watching elite players doing their magic as much as anyone, and I'd love to get chance to cover those higher rated games more, but I personally I find it much more real showing games with players of a more typical ability, so new players will never be excluded.

    In fact, I covered a Noob 1v1 match a few weeks back;

     

  15. 0 A.D. on YouTube

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    It's Sunday - and this week 0AD Newbie Rush actually contains a game between two newbies, and funnily enough it does involve a newbie rushing! . While perhaps not a game for the purist, those with a little more experience will probably be shouting at the screen for the players not to do what they're blatantly about to do, while newer players might just pick up a tip or two upon witnessing these two new players slugging it out :) 

     

     

  24. 0 A.D. on YouTube

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Quote
    7 hours ago, asterix said:

    Very interesting and educational video for creators and youtubers to keep in mind about international law

     

    Thanks for posting that, dude. interesting insight, and actually, very interesting channel overall. 

    And if anyone is curious, the theme music from my Youtube vids is a chiptune rendition of the finale of the 1812 Overture by Tchaikovsky. I found a free midi file of an arrangement of it, checked that it had no licensing conditions attached to it and replaced all the instruments with arcade synths. Well, it was either that or hire an orchestra :) 

     

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