chrstgtr

My main problem with cav is that they don't die even when they should (i.e. running straight through inf and fighting spears head on). I think that is a direct result of their speed (ability to escape fights and to get to fights quickly) and their health (they might get hit once when running through a pocket of men but then keep running so the damage doesn't do enough to kill them). As a result, I don't mind that cav do extra dmg. Making inf, specifically spears faster, would be a step in the right direction. (I think spears and swords should be faster anyways bc of their lack of range). I would rather change health than armor because that ensures an even change across all units as opposed to just hack or pierce units. Otherwise, a -1 nerf to both hack and pierce might result in one type of attack becoming relatively stronger. Also promotions make extra HP a snowball problem.

I have a problem with cav raids. Many top level 1v1s are dominated by cav spam and the game ends (or is all but already determined) before players ever make it to p2 or p3. I think this is undesirable. Skirm cav is OP, but I also have a problem with archer cav (probably the best unit in the game right now when used correctly), and sword cav too. A mass of any of those units wins games and spearmen inf can't counter those units. In short, I don't think the game should purely be cav spam, which is without a doubt the best strategy right now.

I’m in favor of an across the board cav nerf. In my opinion, they’re too strong relative to inf. I think a speed and/or HP decrease would do the trick. The problem is particularly obvious when a group of 10 cav run right through a group of 10 inf and all cav survive. Another (bigger) problem OC example is when a mass of sword cav fight spears straight in and easily win. I actually don’t have problems with Han having sword cav in p1. People mostly have problems defending it because they refuse to make spear. That is the players fault, not the game’s. Once cav is actually balanced vs inf, that will help too

You’re entitled to you opinion. I just ask that the thread stay on topic and that everyone, including myself, add productive conversation. That has no occurred here. Feel free to DM if you want to discuss. This thread is already too far off-topic and I don’t want to contribute to that any more than necessary.

This whole discussion is replete with logical inconsistencies and dilettante historian cherry picking. If team bonuses aren’t meant to be an actual bonus then they should be eliminated. But I doubt anyone wants to eliminate features. It is asinine to throw a fit over the use of a word and not offer any suggestions when that word could be easily replaced with the word “colonizing” or any number of other options. Please move the discussion forward with a real suggestion or alternative: suggesting Athens should have a useless team bonus while other civs have helpful team bonuses isn’t a suggestion for improvement. This entire thread has been thrown askew because one person, who said they barely play the game, said they didn’t like the use of one word in one portion of one proposal. We can do better than this.

This will be fun.

for me, yes. I would also like iphicrates to be an area aura but that might be outside scope.

Isn't the axe cav buff just making axe cav equal to sword cav but with more crush damage? I don't think that is a very good differentiator. They should be unique. I think the glass canon idea much more.

Where can we vote?

This is a similar function proposed for Sparta already. I think it’s a good idea, but something to consider if you want it to be truly unique.

Yeah, but there are no changes right now. It’s just the Han food upgrades, which are necessary to play Han. All players should be using the current mod. But less experienced/involved players probably don’t know a problem exists with vanilla

I agree. It’s a problem. But it’s “necessary” this alpha because of the Han farm upgrade issue. I don’t expect this to exist going forward.

For the weapon switching mechanism? I don't know. I don't think the game has been played long enough for a real opinion to form on this. With that said, I suspect yes. Although, like Philip said, use of spears is really a niche function with limited use right now.

That's what I thought (and I think your suggestion is a good one), but I just wanted to clarify. (Also their spear function is good because it provides a counter to archer's natural counter--cav)

I think you need to clarify what you mean. Do you mean you get to choose what they are trained as? Or do you mean something where they auto switch back after a fight/when walking

You might be right. But I am not sure--traders can be very powerful if you can survive the first enemy push. I would personally suggest doing one of the other first and then seeing how balance is.

Very good point. I withdraw

I personally think they should be a raiding/looting civ (for similar reasons that borg stated). I would apply a speed bonus and a loot bonus. I also understand they were kind of disparate tribes that would occasionally band together. It would be cool if you apply an attack bonus when close to allies, but I don’t think that’s possible without significant computational drag

Maybe just apply to inf. Merc cav is still quite strong I also would never want cav to train as fast as men, especially if the cav is barely more expensive and starts at level 2 The proposal in its current form would make cav have a much higher attack, much higher health, and get to the fight much quicker than CS inf. Their cost would also be basically the same since in terms of res cost and time to collect needed res (because food gather so much slower than metal). Add on top that all those advantages plus train time, res cost, and res gather time would also exist with respect to merc cav vs CS cav

Athens Brits Carth Han Kush Most of them really. But a lot of it is fixing underlying problems with trade/healers

Ah, I was think civ bonus—not team bonus. My mistake. For trade, I think making traders=0 pop would be a good first step. Right now trade isn’t viable because it slows growth at the cost of men. It’s a good long term play but picking that strat usually means you never get to late game. We could set a trader limit to prevent it from getting OP

That just means those units need to be better balanced. I would be fine with any of the options proposed by @real_tabasco_sauce. The carry capacity one would be an interesting p1 buff that could make their gameplay a little more interesting. It could also have a non-noticeable game impact, though. Old building pop bonus from a23? Or can we apply that elsewhere? That was one of the more unique and fun bonuses imo

I played a few games in Vali’s mod. It was fun. It was basically the same game except with an added element of required expansion/strategic expansion. If you just want the current meta of boom, don’t expand, push, then you probably won’t like it with that said, this mod exists to test stuff like this out

I like it with one small caveat below. I would decrease the cost of stone for CC from 350s--300s and for the colony from 200s-->150s. As you have it now, it unfairly disadvantages slinger civs--wood and stone should be the same cost. The whole point of the proposal is to encourage more CCs and make expansion become an actual part of the game. I am not worried about cheapness. The meta will change, but that's the point. This type of meta change is exactly what should be tested with this mod.

I’m just saying there is a lot of toxic personalities