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chrstgtr

Balancing Advisors
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Posts posted by chrstgtr

  2. Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted · Edited by chrstgtr

    10 minutes ago, alre said:

    cumulated effect of proposed bonus:

    1 farmer per field: +0% food income

    2 farmer per field: +5.3% food income

    3 farmer per field: +10.7% food income

    4 farmer per field: +16.3% food income

    5 farmer per field: +22.1% food income

    so if you keep your farms fully staffed, it's +22% food income. it's not wild but it's very good from the moment you get farms.

    Thanks.

    So this is about double what the Gauls' extra gathering tech is except it starts immediately and you get it for free. Could be fine--I don't know. Sounds substantial, though. 

    My guess is that in the long term this would be less impactful than the extra pop that Persia and Maurya gets, but in the short term this would be one of the best booming features. 

  6. Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Fabius said:

    I see. I remember they complained we were using them as impromptu siege workshops and so bypassing the need for a fortress and proceeded to ruin it, which struck me as rather much like punishing the player for being creative with things. I used that as often as I could, not just for siege, when I realised it had veteran spearmen I always made some camps somewhere on my back line so I could make use of those veterans.

    All in all I would love the old camp with the complete original training roster of hastati, triari and Equites(veteran equites maybe?) with all the siege as well. It wont make the siege workshop a redundancy either as that still can be placed back home.

    It also lacks techs and other functionality. 

    I agree for all your reasons and more. But that’s how we got here

    • Like 1

  7. Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted

    7 hours ago, Fabius said:

    Why is there a metal cost anyway? fortresses cost wood and stone, so why does this have a metal component? Why not  just make it 200 stone and 400 wood?

    This was one of the mistakes from a23-->a24. Someone thought it was massively OP and made the camp useless in a24. It's been partially fixed, but I would have no problem going back to a23 where the camp was actually used (and wasn't OP imo). Now, it is very rare to ever see one built

    • Like 1

  8. Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted

    2 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

    Try them with Boudicca tho.

    Sure. I’ve expressed skepticism about Boudica many times before in these forums.  They’re very very strong with Boudica.  That may be a different problem.
     

    But I’m personally undecided on whether Boudica is a problem. She only helps heroes, which means the impact is limited unless a player masses a lot of chariots, in which case it’s probably already gg. Compare that to the cav hero for rome, which boosts champ and CS cav, or Vercin, which boosts all soldiers

  9. Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted

    2 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

    Melee champion cav may be non-counterable, but that does not make them OP necessarily, just frustrating to play against.

    A unit is not OP if it is counter-able OR it is prohibitively difficult to obtain. Good game design requires that units not be prohibitively difficult to obtain because a prohibitively difficult to obtain unit is superfluous.

    Melee champ cav cannot be countered and are not prohibitively difficult to obtain. Therefore they are OP. 

    2 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

    Melee champ cav do not have the same damage/cost as ranged and are less survivable

    No, they have more health and more armor. Even if they die, 10 champ cav paired with a normal army in a 200 pop game can leave the attacker at 190 pop while the defender has 130 pop. That is GG. A unit can die and still be OP if it leads to a player winning a game. 

    2 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

    As for briton chariots/firecav I think fire rate of firecav should be restored to its a25 value and briton champion chariots should have their damage reduced from 36 to 30 (still 5 more than firecav, even neglecting the firecav accuracy nerf).

    Brit chariots are not OP. They are counter-able by any melee champ cav, CS spears, sniping, and by other means. 

    • Haha 1

  12. Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted

    2 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

    My understanding is that it will be incorporated into a27 after more important engine changes and stuff.

      

    On 18/06/2022 at 3:58 AM, wraitii said:

    To summarise: we'll give you the keys to the car to make A26 a more fun game. By the time A27 comes, we can hopefully use your work (and our own) as a good template for a better game out of the box.

    If this experiment is a success, we may reproduce it after A27, but time will tell.

     

    I think it still needs to be ported over and incorporated. My understanding is that the mod won't be a27 because other technical stuff needs to happen, but we could use the mod as a testing ground for things that may or may not be incorporated into a27. 

  14. Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted · Edited by chrstgtr

    31 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

    @chrstgtr the noble cavalry are spear cavalry. Rome is the only civ with champ swordcav, and they are pretty OP.

    Well today I learned. Anyways, I think all melee champ cav is OP because most civs can’t counter them. 
     

    but my general point is a grand solution patch that makes everyone happy probably doesn’t exist but a more narrow patch probably does (ie how only fire cav were changed last alpha)

    • Like 1

  15. Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted

    49 minutes ago, Fabius said:

    There is only one faction with champion sword cavalry and that's Rome, and is arguably the best thing they have going for them currently. And its not the only strong melee champion cavalry either, Seleucid cataphracts can stop Consular quite well, so can Persian Bactrian lancers, which is reasonable given the anti cav bonus of lancers. Also they can destroy everything else too. 

    That being said, I do think citizen spearmen should have more utility against heavy cavalry, maybe a simple multiplier increase would help, go from 3X to 4X. Or a slower 3.5X. You could make it a blacksmith upgrade as well.

    Gauls also have it. I said it as an example of how the problem should be addressed (i.e., each unit type should be addressed one by one). I didn't say whether it should or should not change. (I do, however, think melee champ cav all need to change because the only units that can counter them are champ spear, which are way less mobile and therefore can't actually counter them, and other melee champ cav, which most civs don't have).

    Also, Romans are great and are a very diverse civ. Yeah, champ sword cav are their best unit, but I would argue that is a top 3 unit in the game and one that is OP. 

  17. Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted

    50 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

    what about this?

    Not a fan. Cav is the problem. I wouldn't change inf stats because that impacts other stuff. Spears are meant to be worse than swords. 

    51 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

    the cav speed nerf (is -1 m/s too much?) and this might be enough for the near term.

    Maybe. Would have to be tested. I would support. 

    45 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

    Not only can you turn this off, you can also set a hotkey to have both worlds. (in my setup, I can Alt-Shift to select units out of a formation).

    Awesome. Thanks. 

  18. Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted

    10 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

    what about this?

    The problem is cav. I wouldn't mess with inf stats because that will have other knock on effects. 

    11 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

    the cav speed nerf (is 1 m/s too much?) and this might be enough for the near term.

    Maybe. Would have to test. I would be in favor of it. Sidenote: this would also really help inf vs. archer cav. I am not sure that is a "fix" that needs to happen (as opposed to just have cav be the counter to archer cav), but it is a fix I would like. 

    5 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

    Not only can you turn this off, you can also set a hotkey to have both worlds. (in my setup, I can Alt-Shift to select units out of a formation).

    Very helpful. Thank you. I just don't like the current set up because it makes it difficult to snipe and easy to lose your hero. But this fixes that.

  19. Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted · Edited by chrstgtr

    9 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

    I think they should be differentiated units, rather than just superior versions of infantry. What do you think of the health nerf I provided? Would you agree ranged cav are also too tanky? 

     

    They are differentiated--they are more expensive, have different armor, attack, health, and speed stats. 

    I honestly, am not a fan of the proposal in its current form. I don't have a problem with cav except that they don't die when they clearly should (i.e., walking straight through a ball of inf with minimal losses) and spear inf don't counter them (i.e., skirm cav can easily out micro inf spear because of speed AND champ, merc, and promoted CS melee cav can easily beat spear inf in a head on fight).

    I have no problem with skirm cav dmg.

    EDIT: there are lots of differing opinions, here, which is why I think revisions to cav should be taken on as individual units (i.e., work on champ sword cav first) instead of an overall change to all cav. 

    9 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

    you can change that in options->session->battalions

    Very helpful. Thank you. 

  22. Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted

    13 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

    I like the "stickiness" feature in AOE4 (and Rome Total War), where if cav are hit by spearmen they temporarily lose aa small amount of speed. It's more pronounced in Rome Total War, which has more realistic simulation-mechanics, but it's also there in AOE4. 

    Sounds like it has potential. Do we have the coding capabilities to do this, though?

    12 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

    @chrstgtrI see what you are saying, and honestly, I agree, but I would like to maintain the mobility of cavalry as its primary advantage over infantry (instead of just being better in every aspect). If our only nerf is speed, and we leave damage at 18 for skirm cav, I think you will see even more players just simply using them as a replacement for skirmishers, which makes for poor gameplay.

    To avoid this, they should do the same damage as infantry.

    I think this is a design question. I don't have a problem with cav dealing with dmg. 

    If what you want is inf to be faster relative to cav then a cav speed nerf does the same thing without the other knock on effects for inf. 

    13 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

    One other option could be to lower the hack armor of ranged cavalry.

    9 minutes ago, alre said:

    melee inf should all deal twice the damage it deals now. that would solve the problem.

    Both of these would have huge other effects. Namely, a melee buff would impact inf balance and a cav armour nerf would impact cav battles. 

  23. Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted

    11 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

    One of the most frustrating things with cav is when you "trap" them in a ball of infantry, but the cav still escape with minimal losses. This happens because cav have enough health to survive dealt damage and are fast enough to limit the number of landed hits. Slowing cav down means more hits can be landed on cav. Lower cav's health means those hits do more relative dmg.

    @real_tabasco_sauce

    Making inf faster doesn’t mean they can attack more times. It just means they can close the gap quicker (if the cav decide to stop at all).


    @wowgetoffyourcellphoneis also right. A inf speed buff could have a huge impact on eco. 

  24. Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted · Edited by chrstgtr

    3 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

    yes, so better to focus on individual components of the problem. ie Seems like everyone agrees to nerf skirm cav from 18 to 16 no?

    I don’t have any problem with skirm cav other than I don’t think that a small group of skirm should not beat a small group of spear (ie, 5 spear vs. 5 skirm cav with micro shouldn't result in 5 skirm cav surviving) (ie, there should be a speed nerf). 
     

    Others have said they don’t see a problem with skirm cav too.  

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