av_nefardec
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Posts posted by av_nefardec
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I imagined them pretty much how they were done in the movie, but not greenish, more like really decayed shades of their original colors, but dark shades, like shadows. The guys in the movie are actually similar to my barrow wight mental image though.
Some parts of the book that lead me to believe this:
Nothing assailed the company nor withstood their passage, and yet steadily fear grew on the Dwarf as he went on: most of all because he knew now that there could be no turning back; all the paths behind were thronged by an unseen host that followed in the dark.The dread was so heavy on him that he could hardly walk.Of the time that followed, one hour or many, Gimli remembered little. The others pressed on, but he was ever hindmost, pursued by a groping horror that seemed always just about to seize him; and a rumour came after him like the shadow-sound of many feet. He stumbled on until he was crawling like a beast on the ground and felt that he could endure no more: he must either find an ending and escape or run back in madness to meet the following fear.?The Dead are following,? said Legolas. ?I see shapes of Men and of horses, and pale banners like shreds of cloud, and spears like winter-thickets on a misty night. The Dead are following.?To that Stone the Company came and halted in the dead of night. Then Elrohir gave to Aragorn a silver horn, and he blew upon it and it seemed to those that stood near that they heard a sound of answering horns, as if it was an echo in deep caves far away. No other sound they heard, and yet they were aware of a great host gathered all about the hill on which they stood; and a chill wind like the breath of ghosts came down from the mountains. But Aragorn dismounted, and standing by the Stone he cried in a great voice:?Oathbreakers, why have ye come??
And a voice was heard out of the night that answered him, as if from far away:
?To fulfil our oath and have peace.?
The Company camped beside the Stone, but they slept little, because of the dread of the Shadows that hedged them round.Swiftly then he told of the haunted road under the mountains, and the dark tryst at Erech, and the great ride thence, ninety leagues and three, to Pelargir on Anduin. ?Four days and nights, and on into a fifth, we rode from the Black Stone,? he said. ?And lo! in the darkness of Mordor my hope rose; for in that gloom the Shadow Host seemed to grow stronger and more terrible to look upon. Some I saw riding, some striding, yet all moving with the same great speed. Silent they were, but there was a gleam in their eyes. In the uplands of Lamedon they overtook our horses, and swept round us, and would have passed us by, if Aragorn had not forbidden them.?But Aragorn halted and cried with a great voice: ?Now come! By the Black Stone I call you! ? And suddenly the Shadow Host that had hung back at the last came up like a grey tide, sweeping all away before it. Faint cries I heard, and dim horns blowing, and a murmur as of countless far voices: it was like the echo of some forgotten battle in the Dark Years long ago. Pale swords were drawn; but I know not whether their blades would still bite, for the Dead needed no longer any weapon but fear. None would withstand them.To every ship they came that was drawn up, and then they passed over the water to those that were anchoredThen he let sound a great concourse of trumpets taken from the enemy; and the shadow host withdrew to the shoreThere they stood silent, hardly to be seen, save for a red gleam in their eyes that caught the glare of the ships that were burningAnd thereupon the King of the Dead stood out before the host and broke his spear and cast it down. Then he bowed low and turned away; and swiftly the whole grey host drew off and vanished like a mist that is driven back by a sudden windI think that last quote pretty much sums up my vision of them.
But you can see they are incorporeal - kind of like a fear so strong you think you can see it or hear it in a dark place - know what I mean?
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Check this out:
http://www.diar.ru/tolkien/texts/eng/pbjrr...t/contents.html
This has ideas for a possible Númenorean design.
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Yeah no problem, as a matter of fact, the team isn't yet resolved on the issue of Númenor's emblem.
I mean it's never clearly defined - some ideas were:
Tolkien's drawings of Númenorean tiles and patterns
Eärendil's emblem
White Tree, stars, and crown,
But then there is Ar-Pharazôn's sable, gold, and red banner
So feel free to help us with ideas here
So far Eärendil's is just the most logical choice with the most relevance to text in the book. -
Ok, there are several types of Towers in TLA:
Guard Tower - Very strong tower, almost every civ has it. It looks of course completely different for each civ - Noldor have a slender, white tower, as does Númenor, while the Forces of Morgoth have a hideous spire hewn from black rock. These towers are purely defensive and can garrison lots of units. Once garrisoned, they shoot arrows. Towers have a LoS that gets added to the unit's LoS when the units enter. Think of the White Tower of Ecthelion, the towers of Elostirion, Turgon's Tower, Narchost and Carchost, etc.
Watch Tower - This is not nearly as strong as the guard tower. These towers, though, when garrisoned have a huge Line of Sight. They are used as their name suggests, for watching, and little else.
Beacons - Many civs can either upgrade their watch towers to beacons or build new beacons from scratch. What a beacon does is alert you audibly about enemies in its LoS, When one beacon "goes off" the becaon closest will as well. If you have the right diplomatic conditions (a type of alliance) with another player who has placed a beacon near yours, his will be alerted as well, and so in multiplayer, it'd let your ally human player know you are being attacked, but in single player it works as an AI signal in AoK, setting a kind of goal or target of action for your allies. These beacons automatically sound, but you can control it manually too. The sound that emits is different for each civ. All beacons though, light up in some way. Sauron's might emit a lightning discharge or something like Minas Morgul in TTT. The Rohirrim have a massive horn like that of the Hornburg, etc. But most beacons will light on fire in some way and have some kind of horn alert.
TLA also has included the Palantiri and their towers. Palantiri in TLA are an option of the map in random map games, you can turn them on or off. In scenarios, the creator can place as many as he/she wants. There are minor and major towers. In random map games, they have random placements. To use a tower, you must first research the lore of the palantiri, so that you have more knowledge in their arts. Some civs like the Noldor and Númenor have this researched automatically. You then can send either a leader unit, a hero unit, or a captain unit (an officer type unit like in Cossacks) into the tower to use the palantiri. There are of course, two types of towers - Minor and Major, for each type of Palantir.
Gates - Gates can be garrisoned like towers, and do pretty much the same thing.
Bridges- Bridges can be built on preordained spots in each map. In random maps, this is a random location. In scenarios the designer places the locations where you can build bridges. There are three types of bridges- wooden, stone, and fortified. Fortified bridges have towers and fortifications and the bridge can be garrisoned like a tower.
Editor buildings and special buildings - Some civs, player and indpendent alike, have special buildings acting like towers. And there is a host of editor towers. Barad-dûr, Angrenost, Amon-sûl, Amon Hen/Lhaw (act as towers), Elostirion, Citadel of the Stars (osgiliath), the Hornburg itself (special type of beacon tower), etc, etc.
Hope this is of help.
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Yes, Pippin recieved the uniform, but he was not a normal soldier of Minas Tirith if I read correctly, he was actually a Guard of the Citadel,
Well then how do you explain the fact that Pippin's helm had black raven wings on it but citadel guards' helms had white sea-bird wings? And the tree on the citadel guards was white, but pippin's was silver.
Pippin answered to Denethor himself, but he was still just a normal soldier of Gondor.
Also, we did away with the old "race" based system, in which we had to refer to everything as Age+Race.
Now it's by civilization, so simply one of the civilizations you can play as in a second age game is Númenor.
There's no evidence to suggest that Númenor would have used the white tree as an emblem, as far as I know, and if there is, I'd be grateful if you could show me where I could find it.
The emblem of Eärendil carries more weight because, for example, Gil galad, in his letter to Meneldur addresses him as "Tar Meneldur of the line of Eärendil"
In Unfinished Tales, the white tree was just another gift of the elves, like the Palantiri. It only becomes of more importance to the Dúnedain after the prophecy of Tar-Palantir and then after Elendil escaped over the sea.
For the majority of the second age though, the white tree would have not even had a chance to be the token of Númenor. And we need to represent the majority, classical Númenor. Now, if you wanted to make a scenario depicting the Last Alliance's siege of Barad-dûr, you could use the scenario editor to give the Númenor player a different emblem, if you so choose.
The ine book the Númenoreans "clad themselves in silver and gold", not black and silver.
Moreover, the Edain who came to Númenor in the first place followed the Star of Eärendil, which they called Rothinzil.
So it only makes sense that the emblem of Númenor is either Eärendil's emblem, or something based on it.
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Yeah who knows, but I'm not one to change my opinions on something because of something from a single source. :/
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Hmm for the chimney, I'm not sure what would be best - perhaps something rounder?
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Pippin sings
Yeah, that was an awkward part in the book as well.
Did anyone think the scene in which the hobbits are jumping on Frodo's bed at the end was strange? Then Ian McKellen comes around, and then Rhys-davies....
It provoked quite a bit of laughter from the audience
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Well Tolkien himself on the cover he drew for the Two Towers drew Isengard and Minas Morgul
I think though that we can never say exactly what the two towers were, and that's the way Tolkien wanted it.
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Yep, that's exactly right.
But the movie will not be our resource for designs.
The books' descriptions will be our reference. It's wrong to copy the artwork of others without their permission, and I've always been one to design things on my own
If the books descriptions cause us to make artwork that looks similar to the movies, then so be it.UnsungHero - you're just about 100% right with your descriptions, but the white tree was embroidered on ALL soldiers of Minas Tirith. Remember Pippin's garments, the uniform of Minas Tirith?
He had a small hauberk, its rings forged of steel, maybe, yet black as jet; and a high-crowned helm with small waven rings on either side, set with a silver star in the centre of the circlet. Above the mail was a short surcoat of black, but broidered on the breast in silver with the token of the tree.I think the main problem with the Gondorians was that the movie decided to combine all the Gondorians into one uniform or nationality, like a professional army or something.
In the books, this uniform that Pippin had would have been the standard issue of the soldiers of Minas Tirith. The Citadel guards, of course had a much more impressive raiment. But the kingdom of Gondor was composed of various vassals and almost medieval city-states. There was Dol Amroth, with its silver swan on blue (with gold highlights), and their respective armor, there were bowmen from the Blackroot Vale led by Duinhir, there were hunters and herdsmen, a militia of rangers and such from the Anfalas, There were the organized troops of Ringlo vale led by Dervorin, there were the hill-men of Lamedon, the fisherfolk and sailors of Ethir, Green-clad, gallant men from the Green hills led by Hirluin, and many more folk of Gondor. The army of the kingdom that had amassed at Minas Tirith was composed of many, many different armors and cultures of people. There were many regional differences within Gondor itself.
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No clue, but Denethor was also the name of the leader of the Laiquendi, those elves that sundered from Lenwë's Nandor and moved into Beleriand. The name would have to be from a very old version of an elven-tongue, since Denethor is from before the sun and moon even.
So I don't know what it "means", and I don't see any familiar roots in the name, but Denethor of Minas Tirith was named after Denethor of the Laiquendi.
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Lump sum for units? I think training is more of a thing that takes small amounts of resources over time. And since you don't plan ahead what you need, like buildings, it'd not be a lump sum but a constant price over time.
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@Eken - I think the ads are generated based on the content of the page - just test it by refreshing a lot on this page and on other pages.
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That's what I was told. Before they could film the ending of Saruman, Chris Lee (the actor who plays Saruman) died from a heart-attack. Correct me if i'm wrong, i don't want to be spreading lies [wink.gif]
Quacker you've been misled
As friedd0g said, they cut his scene from the movie about a week before the New Zealand (world) premier, so he boycotted it. He's (I think) the only really well-red (in Tolkien) actor on the cast. A lot of the actors had the chance to read the books and just decided not to (Elijah Wood, for instance)) -
Hmm They called him master holbytla - Pippin was Ernil i Pherianath but I can't remember Merry distinctly
Was it Master Holbytla or something else? (Hobbit actually comes from Holbytla, an anglo-saxon word that means hole-dweller)
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Yeah, we anticipated the decrease in activity
It's going to be slow for about another week or so while everyone goes to see RotK.That looks very familiar
Like the chimney. I'd like to see consistent tones in the wood textures - I mean either make them all reddish or all brownish, but not really a mix. And I think you could probably use a nicer looking thatch texture? IT should be a bit less saturated - more brown, less yellow. Looks nice.
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Goods in TLA are not used to "create" things. That's the function of commodities.
Goods are all "extra" things, whereas commodities are "vital" things.
Here's how goods work. In the end, goods make your units hardier and more armored
http://forums.wildfiregames.com/tla/index....hp?showtopic=88
(The diagram on that page is old and is currently being redesigned, so don't use it
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Hmm that's an interesting idea. About buildings being paid for all at once, and techs and units being over time. Because when you make a building, you plan out and set aside the materials needed, but when you're researching or training something, it's a constant drain.
Team what do you think of:
Constant drain for Units, Techs
Lump Sum for buildings, units?
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Good point
They took some huge strides in the movies.From the book:
The hobbits now noticed that as he walked his knees hardly bent, but his legs opened in a great stride. He planted his big toes (and they were indeed big, and very broad) on the ground first, before any other part of his feet. -
No, perhaps in a roleplaying game, but in a real-time strategy game, you have to be more representational. A spearman unit, for example, isn't necessarily a physical spearman in your army. He's more than that - he's representational of the type of units you have in the army, and the general strength of that army. You see, if he were just a guy in your army, there'd have to be thousands of them on screen for that to be. So instead you limit it to a few hundred and make them all representational of others.
Similarly, your units don't represent individual people, but rather types of people and the general demographics of those people.
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But my point is I've never heard of such cases, and I don't think the body is necessarily a "machine" that shuts off and then starts up again. If this happened, the way the body works is that parts of the body may stop functioning in such a way that we recognize as being alive, but then others can act sufficiently abnormally as to revive the other parts of the body and give the appearance of "life" again.
I'd be interested in learning the circumstances associated with these so called "deaths".
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Many people that may have thought of killing but did not in fear of getting the death penalty.
But, there are people who specifically kill and hope to get the death penalty because they are quite deranged and unstable.
It's not a deterrent in all cases. Personally I think life in prison (real life, not the parole or good conduct garbage we have in the USA) is worse than the death penalty and it's also cheaper.
If you don't believe me that the average US death penalty is more expensive than the average time a killer spends in jail for a life sentence, I can furnish the facts and figures for you.
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Hmm I guess I don't think those are minor points. Things would have been much more dramatic if there were no army of the dead at Minas Tirith like they decided to do in the movie, and there would have been a grey company + aragorn, legolas, and gimli whose appearance at the battle would have inspired the rohirrim and lords of gondor so much that they could have one the battle on their own, truly turning the world over to men. This would have been a much more exhilarating and perilous battle. Without a blatant "Deus ex Machina" like the Dead Men in the movie, the audience I think might have felt more for the men who died and would have been more impressed with a seemingly unstoppable army being conquered by a seemingly meek army than simply another unstoppable army. It's evident that the producers thought that special effects were more important than a more dramatic plot.
The eye-flashlight seems minor, but had they done it the way it was hinted at in the book, more of an every-present, malevolent thought, I think the movie producers could have better shown the mental and emotional toil of frodo, rather than simply the physical toil or the conflict between him and sam. I mean, Frodo's morale was SO low and the eye was always on his mind, they really could have played up the pathos factor on that one.
Aragorn's late sword reforging was better for the movie, so I can't argue that it could have been a better movie otherwise. But I think had a grey company come and presented the sword, rather than Elrond, it would have been more believable and more exciting to non-book-reader viewers. Think about how many people loved rangers after FotR? Imagine seeing 31 of them plus Elladan and Elrohir! Viewers, purist and nonpurist alike would have been estatic to see an army of fighters like Aragorn at the Pelennor.
I also said before that the Pelennor fields were not done well, and I was disappointed from a literary standpoint, but also from a cinematographic standpoint. Had the fields been done as described in the book, as lush, verdant, barn and homestead-filled lands with many rippling rills, orchards, and fields, when the army of Sauron came and destroyed it, it would have been that much more empathy for the Men of Gondor. I mean they really could have made the orcs look malicious. (they did a pretty good job though)
I resented the fact that they have to always try and make a "feature" orc up out of nowhere - in FotR - Lurtz, in TTT the warg-rider, and in RotK, the orc with the horribly disfigured face.
They should have tried to dehumanize (poor choice of words?
) the enemy by not showing any orc too much. I don't think we need to have someone in particular to hate - I think all orcs should be the focus of our malediction. They were all equally horrible.The Ride of the Rohirrim was nice. I think they made it a bit too "instantaneous", like one minute they are in Harrowdale, and the next they are in the Pelennor, but it's understandable, given the time constraint of a movie.
Probably the biggest cinematic mistake in the movie was the downplaying or leaving out of the impenetrable black shadow that created the dawnless day and weakened the hearts of all. Clearly, if there were a close-up shot of Gandalf, Pippin and then maybe the troops at Osgiliath, maybe some women and children, and others, the audience would have been quite disturbed and quite afraid for the people of Minas Tirith. Add the great job the movie did of the force of Morgul issuing from that foul place, and the audience would have quailed as the men of gondor did in the book, and when the @#$% crowed (they forgot that) and day came again (I raised my sword and said Aurë Entuluva at the point this was supposed to happen
), the Audience would have been that much more moved, regardless if they had read the books or not. I mean, it'd be more emotional for those who didn't read the books, because they wouldn't have expected it.So you can see, many of my problems with the movie are not only of purist nature, but a lot of these problems could have been fixed as the book had done them and the movie would have been better for it.
I'm not content to simply sit down and say the movie was great simply because it had a lord of the rings label. It had a good storyline because Tolkien wrote it that way, but the movie itself could have been much better, as I hope I've made you think about above.
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but I didn't like how Saruman(sp) was in the movie at all
Trust me, neither would have Tolkien!
Christopher Lee actually boycotted the movie because they cut his scenes :/
AICN EE Rumors
in The Green Dragon
Posted
I'm just going to post it here:
Wow - the train man as the MoS! That's awesome! I think if these things come true I will be a very happy movie-watcher!