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Achilles_Knee

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Everything posted by Achilles_Knee

  1. They are saying they don't want to attract fans at this point - only people that want to work on the game. Can't say I agree with that approach - but I believe that is the intent. Looks like Ancient Wars: Sparta is even a bigger disappointment then Rise and Fall was - so unless this rumor about an AOE1 remake is actually true (which it isn't) - amazingly - 0 AD is now in the cat bird seat. But I've learned long ago that in 0AD time - 3 years means 10...(cue the moderator to lock the thread)
  2. I freely admit that I had to purposely stay away from this site until now - I was so offended by the response to my query - but I am offended for reasons that some of you will likely never fully understand. Can I help out? Not sure - I have Photoshop and Illustrator - have written lots of rms scripts for AOM including a Land Nomad rms that I am very proud of - and am in the middle of launching a new company with my girlfriend - but in the end - I realize that I am just a fan - so other then donating money, which to me seems problematic as the disclaimer you guys make is pretty much that there is no schedule or no real commitment in terms of said donator getting something to play anytime soon - there is nothing I can do. Which is why in the end - the "I'm done" response seems to be the only one really. Other people probably have done the same thing - they just don't feel a need to post about it - I'm doing this I guess to maybe try to help you understand that the pace of this project - regardless of what the circumstances are - is now in my opinion your biggest flaw. I'm not telling you that to be mean or to vent and flame on my way out the door - but to hopefully on some small level point out that the project is potentially eroding its fan base. I am certainly passionate about what 0AD represents because in my opinion this game has come to represent the last hope for this genre - other attempts at this time period are either failed games - very old - or not true RTS games - certainly Age of Mythology and The War Chiefs give us something close - but I think many people feel like Greece and Rome have never really been properly done - so 0AD represents that - and that is really the only source of my passion - in terms of the RTS expereince ltself - ESO and BFME give me plenty of satisfaction - my real and genuine beef here with you guys is that there does seem to be an incredible amount of complancency here - both in attitude and in dealing with your fans. As I have pointed out - the fake screen shot joke in my opinion was incredibly arrogant - and I think while obviuosly a joke - a very real and telling cliche on the situation here with 0AD and the people that want to play your game. That single event has opened my eyes to what is really happening here...like you say - you have zero obligation to your fans - this is a project for the sake of a project - not for the end result. The zero obligation sentiment - as repeated several times and seems to be a consitent theme in a lot of your responses - I wonder if any of you realize who incredibly arrogant that comes across. In terms of donating money to the project - I can tell you, that sentiment is a serious roadblock to anyone considering it. I think some of the rhetoric in Vaevictis_Music's response to me is frankly a rather graphic and at times almost juvenille display of just more arrogance - all of you seem to get offended by people who want to actually play this game - and as pointed out before - the queries on status have come like once a year or so - you are hardly being pestered - yet you universally react that same way to an innocent request. It's almost like you have a blind spot relative to the way basic human nature works - that blind spot is really evident in the claim that nothing was said to warrent my reaction of being turned off - telling a fan they are here for all the wrong reasons is about as harsh as it gets gentlemen - that's basic alienation 101. You can decide all you want the time isn't a factor and you have zero obligation, not even in your own head to keep fans happy - and a lot of people I guess will jump on that band wagon and agree - but to call me arrogant and a flamer for simply pointing out that you've generated excitement about the game and people who want to play have been waiting for years - that's ridiculous. Whether you come to terms with this or not - the longer the project goes - the more people will just say "meh - tired of waiting." That's not arrogance or flaming - it's just a description human nature. Some people will wait around 10 years for something I guess - but you know - most people probably won't - they will go away and come back, or, just write the whole thing off. It is what it is - but I can't really be all that apologetic here in this final post - I think there is a very valid and resonable response to all that you guys say - in that this thing is taking a very, very, long time - by anyone's standard. I think some people people really wanted to see something tangible - and the fact that this surprises you is just a jaw dropper to me - in terms of being patient - everyone has been more then patient - you've exhasted that request - you can't really say that to us anymore. That was the line you used in 2005 to placate people - now it's two years later. That's just a human reality. I think it is a bit ridiculous to state that all this content and this message board is here just for people who like to develop games - and I certainly think I and other people saw the content as sneak peaks into a playable game that we want to play. If your response in 2007 after all this time is basically 'shut up and wait' - I think more then just me will need to shelve this thing in terms of rooting for you and encouraging you and look to quite frankly early 2009 for any real fruit and to I guess put the pom poms back on and cheer - but the response from you guys at this point is not only "don't tell us how long its been" - but now "how dare you even ask" - someone in your team I have to believe will understand that this is a really harsh and certainly passive aggressive stance for you to take. A better response would be some verbage on what the current challenges are - and a rough date as to when the public will see a playble alpha - to basically sneer at people who have been around for years is just a bad way to treat people. It just is. You know, I'm only one person - but one person becomes two, becomes three, and before long people will just say - "hey forget it". As you say - you are not a commercial entity - and you make no commitments - so I guess there is nothing left to do other then leave you guys alone and check back in a couple of years - its a bit ridiculous to me - and here you will insert comments about how unreasonable that is - but you really need to remove yourself from what you are doing and understand that - guess what - it isn't. Not from member number 100 and something who joined in 2003. I'm sorry that offends you - but if in fact a publisher approached you and you said no - I have to openly wonder about that decision now - especially since there seems to be an adversion to making this public domain so at least someone like me could host a subversion server and even hack away at it and provide some kind of acceleration in a small way - add up all those would be contributors and you would get a game that is playable a lot sooner. But basically the message has turned into "this is a proprietary project with no set schedule and if your a "fan" that wants to see the game - your here for the wrong reason." So in the end - I guess that is true - I was here for the wrong reason - I wanted to play. I wonder if any of you actually get how ridiculous it is to tell people 5 years and running into the project that only fans of the development process need be here...I hope at least one of you can see a small sliver of sunlight of truth to the fact that in the end - its the players of 0AD that will truly make it a great game (or not).
  3. Actually - the thing I recently saw on this forum - and by all means correct me if I am seeing this situation incorrectly - was a rather innocent statement about how the fans have not seen anything in a while - followed up by someone on the team taking an image of calc.exe and photoshoping it - intimating that we will be getting something to chew on soon - not sure if the re-write statement was a joke or not...but after thinking about it for a few days I realized that it was directed at those of us who have been patiently waiting and ask for status once every year or so - and I really do think that was some kind of direct slap in the face...if that image really is something for 0AD then by all means correct me and I'll change my view and retract my statement. But seeing as I doubt that this was serious - yeah - I (and others I would imagine) are a little bit offended by that. These guys are easily offended to be honest by very simple and innocent questions about the status of the game - the fans, which I was until very recently one of them - have been very sparse with the questions over the years on terms of how things are going and when are we going to see something in terms of a gameplay video or something other then a screen shot - this thread for example was started in July of 2005. Seems to me anyone that asks a simple question about status gets thier head ripped off with a how-dare-you statement or some kind of over-the-top comment about how your not a gamedev shop or how unreasonable I must be to want to understand when this thing is going to bear fruit and how I must be sitting around with my life revolving around 0AD. We ask these question ONCE A YEAR. Seriously - if you think this is my problem or that asking about the game on that kind of a schedule is a problem - and understand this is coming from a 42 year old man - YOU are the problem. Frankly - a link to wikipedia and a statement about how my life must revolve around the game for simply asking about status is ridiculous - along with the statement that I am stupid for the way I am reacting to being patronized for asking a simple question. oh - and suddenly this is a place for people into game development and not the fans of the game - what a crock of you-know-what - basically that is a poltie way of telling me to go you-know-what off. I'm done. All I ever get for asking simple questions about what we can expect as a fan around here is flamed. If that does something to morale maybe that is a good thing - because right now I'm feeling pretty put off by my what - 4 posts max a year?
  4. Wow. That is a really impressive way of turning off a fan in a permanant way. -1 0 AD fan. Good luck.
  5. Once again - I simply have to ask - should we stop waiting? I personally have gone back to playing Age of Mythology and I also play AOEIII Warchiefs - AOM is suprisingly easy to get a ladder game and AOEIII is getting plenty of play. Can you help some of us put into perspective the 0AD project in terms of just the raw ability to play super competitive games online? 2008? I think it's time to give you guys a dose of reality here - according to the fact this project is 6 years old - we hear "rumors" of something happening - but that has been going on since rumor was mid summer 2006... Don't you think your fans deserve a clear and candid statement on this game and it's future?
  6. I find the sense of humor being displayed by the 0AD team in this thread pretty darn cruel... 4 years!! It's been 4 years we have waited!!
  7. Hey, I'll pay for the game - probably like 4 copies - should you decide to charge money for it - heck I'll upgrade my FIOS to business class FIOS just to host a multiplayer server if it comes to that... There is always Open Sourcing the game too - but I understand if you don't want to lose your proprietary engine to open sourcing....
  8. Well not to continue to pummel the proverbial dead horse - But I think there are lots of people that are not you know - 3D artists, scripters, etc. that have a desire to see this thing happen - want to help out as many ways as possible in the interest of starting to see this thing come to life - I've come very close to donating money on many occasions - but I guess without the sense of urgancy or any kind of early game play vid or any kind of 'marketing' to gain inertia - understand this is coming from a 42 year man from the IT/Game Hosting/Large Scale Game Testing world (as a fan not in any official capacity) - I don't really see enough 'spark' to justify it. The concept of the game is killer - and at one point I actually thought that Rise and Fall would be the next big thing - and it bombed - so now I have hopes for this game...but maybe I am just in love with the concept more then anything. I think your fans all have good intentions - we maybe just feel like this project is dragging on and on - which as you say is OK for you...maybe not so OK for potential donors? (runs away and ducks) ROTWK just shipped so there is always that until next summer...
  9. Is it safe to say the project timeline has slipped then? I know I irk people for pointing this out, but some of us are going on 4 years of patience here... Summer '07 maybe?
  10. ummm.... Congratulations? Seems like anyone that sort of asks about when will we see the game takes it on the chin for doing so...I mean for God's sake - the background page says the game was born in 2001 - people are now down to asking meekly and shyly how it is going every 6 months to a year now... I mean - your audience/fans are RTS players, I don't know how kindler and gentler a group like us can get, but geesh, excuse me for asking yet again - guess I'll try back in the spring.
  11. Wow. I think it's really too bad that no one but you guys has seen this, even in video form... You guys sort of position this as a better thing/project/game then what the traditional game developers do, yet there isn't even an E3 like preview video or anything for us to chew on... I guess we just sort of sit back and wave our pom poms and wait - Give me a ZERO!! Give me an A! Give me a D!! What's that spell!! meh. At least what you said about the sandbox state is SOME kind of news!! Thanks! (seriously)
  12. So maybe you can help us set our expectations here - no offense, but it seems like pretty much every response to the innocent "hey, how is it going, when will we see something?" from your team is: It will come out when it comes out...or vagueness, or whatever... I suppose the reaction in some of us to that will be forgotten once something actually does happen, but do you feel like asking these questions after 3+ years of announcing your project is rude and or annoying? I've noticed that people now seem to have to walk on egg shells when asking these questions, do you see the fact that some people would like to hear some real tangible status after all this time? I guess it would be good to know if the game is still years away from being seen, in any incarnation...
  13. OK, so 6 months has gone by, and as I mentioned - wanted to check back in. Are we going to see anything tangible out of 0AD this year, next year, 2008? Have you thought about getting out a small little applet that has a unit that can be rotated and viewed or anything?
  14. FYI - most people agree that Midway's Rise and Fall is not very good. That puts 0 A.D. in a leadership space for this type of genre. Amazing development really. I wonder how close 0AD will be to the following ideal I posted about what is lacking from RaF? ******************************** I remain bitterly dissappointed that the Age of Empires - Rise of Rome on the old MS ZOne play experience is gone, possibly forever... To me, the perfect game would be Age of Mythology's performance and economy with RaFs units and game play. I am still convinced that this type of game, that is Ancient warfare based on Persia/Greece/Eqypt/Roman Republic/Carthage has not been done properly yet. I don't know if 0AD will fill the void or not, but I remain firmly convinced this genre can once again have a killer game with a thriving online play community... RaF could have been that game...it is so so sad... The things we need in the game are so obvious: *sigh* - I guess I just don't get it. It seems so simple to me on how to make this type of game a franchise: Age of Empires Age of Empires: Rise of Rome Empire Earth Age of Mythology RaF The killer Ancient Warfare RTS is a combination of all of these... AOE/RaF's gameplay AOMs economy RaFs hero mode Start with cavemen like in EE (lol) maybe throw in somehow the massive scale of Rome Total War MP battles... Keep the RaF tech tree and units - (with less effective swordsman) - lose the outposts - put hunting/fishing/farming back in the game - make some units cost food only - food/wood - gold/food - gold/wood What I mean by the above is the swordsman would be much weaker but only cost food - archers would cost gold/wood - spears would be stronger and cost gold/food Bring back the record game feature... Bring back market and dock trade... Make buildings stronger... Balance the game often with patches using a polling system for what needs to be changed... *sigh* Sorry for the rant, it just doesn't seem that hard to me to get this type of game right, we have so many examples of what works and what doesn't on the shelves... ***************************
  15. Right. I am excited about this game, as are many other players. There is a difference between players and developers I think. For me, the RTS genre has been badly fractured. I will always go back to the days of Rise of Rome on the zone as the hey day of RTS genre. Since then, we have been badly fractured, and I for one spend my days playing AOE III, in an age period historically that I am not all that crazy about. But it is the best playing experience out there right now, and let's face it, that is what we all want. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong in wanting the latest RTS to be the best to play. It's natural as a player. I never understood why Ensemble decided that a sequel always meant advancing in time. They really were on to something with AOM, but they blew it. AOM should have been a remake of Rise of Rome. Instead, it became a marketing exercise, the myth units and God Powers were more about competeing with Warcraft then adding value to the game. So 0 AD has always represented to me the game Rise of Rome could have become had Ensemble focused on a remake with that AOM engine, rather then the cheeze they came up with. I actually have an AOM scenario that removes all god powers and myth units. It really changes the game. I also have an rms that starts you in the second age for titans and removes myth units and god powers, and that game plays incredibly well, making a rush a real and serious threat as a matter of fact. It plays sort of like Empires, DotMW So like others, I don't understand the proprietary approach here. On the one hand, you say that you are hobbyists and that this is a labor of love, and this will be a free game, and on the other hand, the whole open source approach does not seem to be in effect here. I think you would be shocked to see what would happen if you sourceforged this project. Developers would spring up all over the place, and your fans would load up what they could, and even non-developers and non-artistic people would immediately start to contribute...there would be a ground swell of anticipation, and thousands of people would jump on the band wagon. I have seen it on other projects. That is what Open Source is all about. I think what your message here is: it's a proprietary game *and* we don't have the staff to get it out there, so we are taking a very long time *and* you will just have to wait *and* we are OK with that *and* so should everyone else be, including our fans... I think you seriously over estimate the patience of an RTS player...and seriously under estimate the power of the open source community...
  16. I manage a data center with a 100mb connection to the Internet... Maybe you can then understand why I'd like to get something to the owner of my company... I wanted to float the idea of us hosting a game server... meh. Sounds like 2007 or so...
  17. Very detailed and long response, but all you have to do is look at the date that I joined this site... Pretty much says it all. I'm sure I will play the game when you get it out there...my point here is that you could really have a lot of support behind you...I guess if that statement sort of flies over the teams head...I don't know what else to say. I've talked to a lot of people over the last 2+ years about this project, we all pretty much feel the same way... It's not a bash. Just letting you guys know. A lot of us bought into this concept in 2003... Now in 2006 not so much anymore... Good luck, I'll check back in another 6 months I suppose...
  18. I'd donate cash right now today to this project if it looked like there was a serious intent to get the bits out there and start developing a community...and that is no idle claim. And I'd start donating regularily in fact. What I am hearing here is that there is no sort of intent after 2.5 years with it sounds like at least another year (which translates to 2) to insert this game into the RTS psyche...that it is a hobby, and there is no sense of urgency at all. That is not a very good message at all. Age of Empires the original? That game is quite soundly obsoleted. Rise and Fall is indeed an RTS, the FPS part is very limited, and Rise and Fall is set basically in the exact same time period with almost the exact same civs, as well as large ships with troops on deck...as this project. I run a data center with a 100mb connection to the internet, and I wish I had time to devote to creating a game, because I still stongly believe there is an opportunity in this historical time period for a killer app that would develop a loyal following and a strong community. There is an elegance to ancient warfare many of us love...and AOM totally opened the door to a realistic RTS by trying to compete with Warcraft. But that window is rapidly closing. Basically I am not hearing anything from this team that is compelling in anyway...no offense, but it even sounds complacent. I think you underestimate the power of the internet dev community and the RTS community in general, if you have an engine that is working on some level and your intent is to make it basically openly moddable, not getting it out there ASAP in whatever form it is in my opinion is a rather large mistake, and on some level a resignation that what you have is a pet project for a few friends. I think this project has lost it's original appeal and inertia, severly underestimates how powerfull the marketing story was on what this game was supposed to be, and has lost a tremendous amount of positive energy by announcing year after year that is will be another year before anyone sees anything... I think it's a shame, I would have loved to contribute in some way... I think you will be quite surprised what is going to happen in the next year around some of these new titles that are coming out. The RTS genre is now stronger then it has ever been, and 0AD for all intents and purposes at this point is a great idea by a great group of people...that has lost all of it's momentum and apparently lost the plot as well. It's a shame really. Oh well, off to work on my Ottoman deck...and start learning Empire at War.
  19. Sorry to be so direct, but when did this project start? I'm trying to understand why Rise and Fall by Midway won't basically moot this project. I'm not trying to flame here, or to say anything mean spirited. But... Is the gaming community going to see something out of this project anytime soon? With AOE III, Rise and Fall, SW Empire at War, Sparta Ancient Wars, and even titles like Spore and BFME II...this game frankly seems doomed. Where do you think you are in terms of what this game will be to the RTS community?
  20. Yeah but seriously, here is what it says: * When will 0 A.D. be released? We won't really know until we've finished it. Expect the process to take several years, plus we intend to devote a whole year to beta testing. Information about release dates will be released at the appropriate time. * When is your scheduled beta test? We have not yet set a formal date for our open beta. Many months of development and testing await. It will occur after the product has passed rigorous quality inspection in our closed beta (internal testing by all Wildfire Games staff). Rest assured that the beta shall be publicised closer to the time. * How can I apply for the beta test? We have a long way to go before we reach that stage, so we are not receiving any applications at this time. I mean, several years? The concept is great, love the time period, but by the time you get this out will it even be relevant anymore? With AOEIII and Stainless Steel Studios new game coming out, will your several years old 3d engine even be relevant anymore? I mean, 50 bucks for a game is not that huge of an investment... Ever thought of just getting your engine out there on sourceforge.net or something and getting the open source dev community to embrace your idea? Maybe you just need bodies at this point, the more people working on the code the better How many years do you really think not releasing anything 0AD can withstand? Are you guys really all that patient? Do none of you understand the concept of marketing and dev schedules? Do you really want a tiny niche game out there that no one plays because it is so outdated?
  21. To be honest it's impossble to tell at this point... Empires DMW is the current benchmark in terms of the state of the art in RTS, so without a beta or even an alpha of 0ad to compare there is no way of knowing... looks promising but no offense, but 0ad is vaporware...
  22. ??????? To me this is the most relevant game to 0AD right now; both comparisons-wise and dev implication-wise.. I mean AOM and AOK reviews are cool, but the closest game to 0AD right now is Empires (medieval age) need me to buy a copy and send it somewhere? (cause I will)
  23. So let me say right up front; I was a big AOM player...but I got burnt out on it. I was mainly a Land Nomad (8 player random civ random team) zone player; but when I got to AOM; the MP interface was so bad I ended up playing a lot of rated... That is when I saw the ugly side of AOM in my opinion; month after month of 1v1 strats that exploited some game inbalance until another patch came out. When Titans finally shipped and I saw what the game had become; I simply quit playing it for good. In fact; to be honest; AOM plain disgusts me. I'm just really upset that AOK never had a proper follow on game. So for better or for worse I consider Empires DMW to be the current best 'Age of Empires' type RTS out there and I was wonder what you guys thought and what you think the major differences should be in terms of 0AD versus this title. I think the one thing Rick Goodman did with this title is recapture some of the killer gameplay of the original AOE. Some of the rushes that are out there remind me of the old days of RoR. I don't know; I feel like they've done a great job with balance and gameplay and I am quite surprised by this title to be honest. Comments?
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