greycat

They also had a ‘bell’ cuirass. (I added picture with numbers)

I will have to look into that. They did say it was the first one to be recorded in detail... not the first time it was used.

Yes I have been trying to think of how this works in hex turn based games and how we could apply this to an RTS in a simple way.

All I Know is what I have read. I have not found a military historian yet that has disputed this? "Hannibal’s double envelopement at the Battle of Cannae in 216 BC is viewed by military historians as one of the greatest battlefield maneuvers in history, and is cited as the first successful use of the pincer movement to be recorded in detail"

OK. My main concern was that there is not a proper way to Countermeasure a wedge. I realize there is only so much realism we can add.

Hannibal deployed his men in a convex formation with the center closest to the enemy. When enemy attacked they let the center retreat and concave with the edges closest drawing the enemy into it.

pincer movement [ˈpɪnsə] n(Military) a military tactical movement in which two columns of an army follow a curved route towards each other with the aim of isolating and surrounding an enemy Also called envelopment

That sounds interesting. I will check it out.

I am just trying to see if it is feasible to do this in an RTS. 1. A concave line to counteract a wedge formation. 2. A pincer movement to surround an enemy.

Really you guys? I said what Hannibal did was a pincer movement and a concave line is related to a pincer movement...

SPARTAN WARRIOR, c.546 BC This Spartan warrior from the time of the ‘Battle of the Champions’ is shown wearing the equipment depicted on an archaic Lakonian figurine from Kosmas, in the vicinity of Thyrea (now in the National Archaeological Museum, Athens). Similar archaic figurines, along with the evidence of several vase paintings, confirm that warriors went into battle naked, except for the helmet, ‘bell’ cuirass (1) and greaves (2). They are often depicted with high crests on their helmets.The two styles of helmet shown here are the open-faced ‘Illyrian’ (3) and an early variety of ‘Corinthian’ (4), which introduced the nose guard and covered more of the wearer’s face. Both styles could be fitted with crests, either made from horsehair (5) or fashioned from bronze (6). The Spartan warrior was a spearman, first and foremost, and is shown with the large hoplite shield (aspis) and spear (dory). The spearheads and butt-spikes are based on examples in the National Archaeological Museum, Athens. The shield emblem is the Gorgoneion (or Medusa mask) (7), a motif that was popular at Sparta, where it recurs on bronzework and on bone and ivory carvings. THE SPARTAN SHIELD The fortuitous survival of the so-called ‘Bomarzo shield’, now in the Museo Gregoriano Etrusco (Vatican), allows us to see how a hoplite shield (aspis) might have been assembled. The core of the shield was a shallow wooden bowl with a flat, projecting rim, constructed from several planks of poplar wood, arranged so that the grain ran horizontally when the shield was in use (1). The thickness seems to have varied between 10 and 11mm in the centre and 12 and 18mm at the edge. A thin layer of leather was glued to the interior, while on the exterior, and perhaps stuck to it with a layer of pitch, was a bronze facing, 0.5mm thick. Around the rim, the bronze was often decorated with a repoussé pattern, such as the guilloche shown here (2). The classic Spartan shield of the late 5th century BC was probably blank and polished to a high sheen. However, vase paintings depict various shield emblems, including the snake shown here (3), and the pattern of radiating black and white crescents on a red background is thought to have had particular significance at Sparta (4). Some of the motifs carved on ivory votive disks from the Temple of Artemis Orthia are also found as shield emblems, such as the scorpion shown here (5). Equally, ithas been suggested that bronze ‘Medusa’ plaques were intended to be attached to shields (6). Inside the shield was the central armband (porpax) and, to either side, a pair of staples for attaching a braided cord handgrip (antilabe) (7). Vase paintings show how four additional anchor points allowed spare cord to be threaded around the perimeter, perhaps to assist in carrying the shield over the shoulder. SPARTAN WARRIOR, c.346 BC By the time of the Third Sacred War, Sparta had passed her heyday; her army was overwhelmingly Lakedaimonian, rather than Spartiate. Consequently, the Spartan Warrior played a far smaller role on the battlefield. Nor is it clear, in the absence of archaeological finds and literary descriptions, what type of armour he wore. During the period of the Peloponnesian War, there seems to have been a deliberate lightening of equipment. The claustrophobic ‘Corinthian’ helmet was replaced by the pilos (1), which left the face, ears and neck exposed. Although this was a far simpler helmet, several examples are known to have been decorated with repoussé or appliqué work, and a bronze statuette (now in Sparta Museum) shows how a crest could be applied. At the same time, the bronze cuirass and greaves, which had been worn during the time of the Persian Wars, were given up entirely. The Spartiates on Sphakteria, for example, relied only on the protection of their shields (2). Much the same state of affairs probably continued into the 4th century BC, as long as the dwindling population of Spartiates clung to their heroic traditions. By contrast, the hoplites of other city-states had given up the bronze cuirass in favour of the lightweight fabric corslet, still designated as a thorax (3); this incorporated a tubular body section (as opposed to the front- and back-plates of the cuirass) and a collar or ‘yoke’ section, to which the body ‘tube’ was attached (hence, the common neologism, ‘tube-and-yoke corslet’). Although the fabric seems often to have been quilted or even reinforced with metal scales, it did not offer complete protection. At the Second battle of Mantineia, when Epameinondas, the victor of Leuktra, ‘took a blow to the thorax, he fell on the spot, for the spear had broken leaving the iron point in his body’ (Diod. 15.87.1). Hoplites wishing more protection than the pilos could offer, but unwilling to suffer the discomfort of the ‘Corinthian’ helmet, often elected to wear the more open-faced helmet known to scholars as the ‘Chalcidian’. Variations included the removal of the nose guard and the attachment of hinged cheek-pieces, often shown folded up on vase paintings (4). The same paintings show that greaves might still be worn, at the individual’s discretion. But, as before, the warrior’s main protection came from the large hoplite shield (aspis), here shown depicting the cockerel, a belligerent bird that was sacred to Herakles and, no doubt for that reason, a popular Spartan motif (5). It is possible that the perioikoi who increasingly filled out the ranks of the Lakedaimonian army wore equipment like this. source: http://www.ospreypub...C_9781849087001

I like the Greeks because they admit were they got there ideas. "Thus philosophy, a science of the highest utility, flourished in antiquity among the barbarians, shedding its light over the nations. And afterwards it came to Greece. First in its ranks were the pro-phets of the Egyptians ; and the Chaldeans among the Assyrians ; and the Druids among the Gauls ; and the Samanaeans among the Bactrians; and the philosophers of the Kelts; and the Magi of the Persians." AD 260 - Clement of Alexandria’s Stromala I, xv, 71, 3 1

This makes sense. Also they didn't really notice they were different than the Celts until the end period of game.

If we did the Belgae (Gallo-Germanic) they would be more Celtic and they also had conflict with Rome. (Talking about the Gallic tribes) "Of all these, the Belgae are the bravest, because they are furthest from the civilization and refinement of [our] Province, and merchants least frequently resort to them, and import those things which tend to effeminate the mind; and they are the nearest to the Germans, who dwell beyond the Rhine, with whom they are continually waging war; for which reason the Helvetii also surpass the rest of the Gauls in valor, as they contend with the Germans in almost daily battles, when they either repel them from their own territories, or themselves wage war on their frontiers. Source: The Gallic Wars by Julius Caesar

Germanic wars with Rome within time frame of game. Siege of Olbia, c. 220 BCECimbrian War, 113–101 BCEBattle of Noreia 112 BCE[1]Battle of Agen 107 BCE[2]Battle of Arausio 105 BCEBattle of Aquae Sextiae 102 BCEBattle of Vercellae 101 BCE[3]Battle of Vosges 58 BCEBattle of the Sabis 57 BCEclades Lolliana 16 BCEBattle of the Lupia River 11 BCE

This picture is Teutoburg Forest 9AD but it is a good representation of how they dressed at least around the same time. They are of the Suebi tribe with the Suebian knot in hair.

Some differences off hand I can think of are they would not have druids, They didn't live in cities like the Gauls... so probably not a fortress like you said. I will try to come up with a better outline but I should do some more research first.

I would like to make some kind of mod if it is not beyond my capabilities.

In the sense that the idea of a German was not yet invented by Romans until the end period of game, you could look at that way. Romans did deal with a tribe called the Teutons which came to be another name for German. The problem as that even the Teuton tribe could have been Celtic. Merriam-Webster Dictionary1 : a member of an ancient probably Germanic or Celtic people

At least some Celtic/Galation tribes have Germanic ancestry. The Belgae are believed to have come before the Germanic migration.

Romans did not differentiate between Celts and Germans until around the time of Caesar. Some Celts were Germanic like the Belgae. The Greeks called the Celts Galatians for the place they invaded, which also included a Belgic tribe.

The strange thing about software is it is legal to completely mimic the functions another OS like FreeDOS "Complete, free, MS-DOS compatible operating system with no enhancements or advanced features such as multitasking, protected mode operation, GUI." It is not really 100% compatible though...

I think different rules apply in different countries but I think you are correct. In the music industry this is the way it works... The Verve lost all of the money in the US to the Rolling stones because they directly sampled an orchestration for Bitter Sweet Symphoney. If they would have recorded another orchestra this wouldn't have been a problem. The band Nirvana did get sued by Killing joke for stealing a a main riff for Come As You Are. though, so it is a kind of grey area.

This makes more sense now. This would explain why Sun Tzu advised against it.

The band of cloth seems to be historically correct and may also be more respectful? I mean we can't really hop in a time machine and ask them. women had to fight for the rights to wear more clothing in modern times it seems...