greycat

This is one of my favorite German Industrial bands.

I will have to read about Palmyrans Revolt. I would also like to explain why I brought up the genetics of modern day Germans. I think some people got the wrong idea. To some extent I think this is a microcosm for later day Gaul. Today northern Germany is predominantly Scandinavian while the southern part is stronger Celtic decent. These two cultures together make up what is today Germany i.m.o. microcosm = a community, place, or situation regarded as encapsulating in miniature the characteristic qualities or features of something much larger.

This makes sense to me except for the Gallo-Germanic Belgae. They were there at least by 300 BC and had conflict with Rome.

Here is my point. Germani and Teuton both are describing people who are Germanic (perhaps Celtic) in origin. I personally side with the Greeks and not Caesar and call them both Celts.

Going back to the Cimbrian war (113–101 BC) Romes first contact with "Germanic" tribes the Cimbri and the Teutones. The current consensus is they were Germanic (perhaps Celtic) among modern scholars.

The sources I have seen state the the Belgae came during a much earlier migration. (Wikipedia "from at least the 3rd century BC") This would also explain why they are much more Celtic than the other Germanic tribes. The map above is from Wikipedia. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pre_Migration_Age_Germanic.png

Raised hill forts for the Britons and Gauls maybe?

Celt Latin Celtae, plural, from Greek Keltoi First Known Use: 1550 Did we kwow what Celt meant in 1550 when we started using it? Who are these Kelts that have no druids but philosophers? (Titus Flavius Clemens, known as Clement of Alexandria, was a Christian theologian who taught at the Catechetical School of Alexandria. A convert to Christianity, he was an educated man who was familiar with classical Greek philosophy and literature) AD 260 - Clement of Alexandria’s Stromala I, xv, 71, 3 1 Thus philosophy, a science of the highest utility, flourished in antiquity among the barbarians, shedding its light over the nations. And afterwards it came to Greece. First in its ranks were the pro-phets of the Egyptians ; and the Chaldeans among the Assyrians ; and the Druids among the Gauls ; and the Samanaeans among the Bactrians; and the philosophers of the Kelts; and the Magi of the Persians. (Cassius was a Roman consul and noted historian who wrote in Greek. AD 155 – 235) Dio 39.47 The Rhine issues from the Celtic Alps, a little outside of Rhaetia, and proceeding westward, bounds Gaul and its inhabitants on the left, and the Germans on theright, and finally empties into the ocean. This river has always down to the present time been considered the boundary, ever since these tribes gained their different names; for very anciently both peoples dwelling on either side of the river were called Celts. (Strabo, Greek geographer, philosopher and historian 64/63 BC – c. AD 24 .) Romans introduced the name Germani, because the Germanic tribes were the authentic Celts. [authentic Galatians, γνησίους Γαλάτας]

I understand. There is evidence they used the sites though.

This is what archeology tells us. Around 500 BCE another Iron Age culture emerged -- the La Tène. Carts were now two-wheeled chariots. Groups of extended families were organized in clans (tuatha). The La Tène Celts never really transcended the level of clan organization, and their forays outside the Celtic sphere were for wealth more than systematic territorial expansion. They defeated Rome in 387 BCE, they raided Delfi in 279 BCE, and in 278 BCE a group of Celtic mercenaries settled in Asia Minor (the Galatians). While the Celts were quickly Romanized on the continent, La Tène culture may have persisted in Ireland until as late as the fourth century CE. They were metalworkers in bronze, silver, and gold as well as iron. Their art influenced the Germanic and, to a lesser extent, the Classical world. http://faculty.unlv.edu/jmstitt/Eng480/Celtic/LaTene.html

When Caesar divided the Germani and the Gauls he literally cut the ancient Celtic homeland in half.

Also Gauls does not work because the Celts weren't just in Gaul area during start of game. 500 BC puts major Celtic cities in Germany and surrounding areas. Thanks for getting me back on topic b.t.w.

The using terms like Gaul during the early period of the game seems out of place to me. It did not become called that until much later in game? ...and by Caesar no less...

Also there is so much we have wrong about the culture i.m.o.

People keep talking to me about it...

They made it as far as Turkey which seems to be where they got the name Galatians. There is evidence that they were not the first people there though.

The Belgae claimed decent from Germans to Caesar.

Yes, Caesar states that Gauls had invaded the most fertile parts of Germany and eventually started to dress and eat the same food as the the Germans.

If we can't trust Strabo then we surely can't trust Caesar. That would make them all Galatians/Celts once again.

Remember I don't want to change the game. If we did have a Germanic faction I don't care if we don't call them Celtic. I know that Germani was just a name given to them that meant authentic Celt by Romans. Strabo has a very good reputation for his accuracy about history.

You said genetics are not important while language is. I explained they are linked by the way the languages were classified.

The problem is that the Celtic languages are very tied to genetics. We started calling them that when we found out that some of the people living in England, Ireland and Wales were genetically descended from the Celts. When they started labeling the Celtic languages in this way they had no idea that the people with the most Celtic DNA were living instead in south western Germany.

I agree genetics is just another tool to use.