Oimat

They don't. Because you need 10 catapults in a boat to get a significant boost, nobody will do it. Because 10 catapults are more valuable than a boat that fire rocks, the bonus is not good enough to be used as it is.

hollth : what do you mean ?

You're right, don't include naval economy, because it doesn't exist

I invite you to read my opening message, because you are repeating exactly what I said About pairing techs, I'm just saying that it's not a fatality to have a beter tech than another one. I'll make sure that the paried techs are both interesting so there won't be a beter one.

Here is the currently tech tree I'm working on. Note that the military tree isn't over yet, and the followings : - if techs are touching each other verticaly, they are paired - you need to have done all the techs that gets a line from the left to the tech you want to search to be able to (example : you need the hunting tech to be able o do the sheeps one) I will soon testing this tech tree on a git and will be provided to anyone who wants to test it after I tried it and balanced it. No comments are expected about the tech tree. It's just to show you my point of view. The tree has be done with yEd (not open source freeware), so if you want to make yours... Now, to answer the ones that posted here. I think iNcog got my point of view about techs, and I think we agree about pretty much everything (except that the wood tech is way better....). I think also pairing techs are a good idea. Not always using it, but sometimes it will bring a decisive choice on the startegy you will do. Currently it's not well-used, but if the tree tech is well-designed, it will for sure bring a lot of depth into the game. But always, it will be for some techs, not a lot of them, since they will be root techs that provides a different set of strategies. So you will choose the one you want in function of your way of playing, so choice will be different from a player to another. Finaly, I don't want having techs that reduces something in your game, as +attack/-armor vs -attack/+armor. A tech should be always benefical, with no compensation.

I know, it's really deep But perhaps this thread will make the dev to commit them, perhaps

For roads : http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16428&hl=road&page=3

http://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/1598 http://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/1989 http://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/2407

There's none for Fedora. You will have to compile it yourself.

Indeed. That's why, even if I haven't said it but I thought of it so hard that I'm sure you read that, the firsts techs of a tree are cheaper than the ultims ones. So you can indeed have the firsts techs of another branch, but not the more powerfull ones.

Not really :\ A rush is always a gamble. For your second point, you're right. What I meant is more something like "it won't be interesting for you to start a new tech-branch before finishing the one you started, and so you will have to wait 30 minutes or more before starting military techs if you choose eco ones"

That's exactly my point. Being able to choose only TWO very powerfull techs in 15 instead of having 30 not-so-much-impactant techs. So doing this kind of stuff, you really will change your way of doing with the opponent, since you don't know which tech you should use for now, knowing that in this case, you won't be able to have the one you truly would like to have.

Flavius : having faction techs doesn't mean what I'm saying is irrelevant. You can have as much faction techs as you want, what I am saying is that is they are so cheap as currently, there is no real choice to do. There is an example that would cause a enormous difference between two games : - you are under an early rush, so you want to defend, so you do defensive techs. So you can't do eco techs and booming, for long time from now you will have to be defensive - the ennemy doesn't do any pressure on you, so you have time to boom economically, so you will prefer economics techs. The problem is that if you are under attack just after that, you won't be able to defend well yourself - you want to be faster than your ennemy → military tech → poor eco, you HAVE to succeed, that's a gamble. Lion : oh yeah *_* There's a part of responsibility in the maps that aren't designed for that purpose. Some maps where ther is place between the CC and the border of the map, which allows you to back cc the other.

You can see it as a chance to learn more Spanish or French It's incredible how english-native speakers really don't like to learn new languages and prefers others to learn english instead

Hi everyone, I'm coming to this burning issue, which has been discussed so many times. In a few time you'll be able to see alpha 16, and if you haven't played on svn, you will find a HUGE improvement on techs. I would say by eye that the number of techs were doubled from a15 to a16. And that is good, I love all the news stuff. Now, here are 5 numbers : 33 minutes of game, 20k of food, 20k of wood, 10k of stone and 10k of metal. That's the average of an expansionist player. And of course, all techs researched. Only the paired one didn't allow me to have really all of them. So there is, I think, a problem. Someone shouldn't be able to have all techs so fast in the game (30 minutes), at least in my opinion. Why that ? Because you can't really specialize in one way of playing. You have the eco guy, the rush guy, the defensive one... (eco != defensive, be carefull !) And everyone should be able to get only one fully direction of techs. Let's say that you have 10 military (m), 10 eco (e), 10 defensive (d), 10 find-a-something (f) different techs, and that currently in alpha16, beeing able to research everything takes you 10k of ressources. That's no far from reality, and remember I gather 60k in 33minutes, so that's 17% of my ressources to e able to upgrade everything. My proposition is the following one : go from 17% of all ressources to 100%. What does that mean ? That instead of being able of researching while expanding and fighting, you make a choice between both. For that, 90% of the techs should be as expensive or more than the phase technologies. From the other hand, the effects would be way more powerfull. Want some examples ? Currently : 100wood, +25% in farming rate Epicness : 500wood + 300 food, +50 % farming rate Currently : 100stone, +1 pop per house Epicness : 400wood, 300 stone ,+10 pop per house Currently : 300stone, +2 pop per house Epicness : 1000 wood, 1000 stone, +15% max pop Currently : 100wood, 100 metal, +2 hack attack on skirmishers Epicness : 400 wood, 500 metal, +8 hack attack on skirmishers Currently : 200 wood (I don't remember), +25% of speed for merchants Epicness : 600 foos, 500 wood, +60% of income for merchants Of course, this way it wouldn't be possible to have all technologies. That's a way to introduce some strategy, to know if in this situation you are allowed to spend your ressources on economic researches of you should do more soldiers, meanwhile military techs would give you a huge advantage. There's a need too to have cheap techs as currently, but not so much. Thank you for reading all of this @#$%, And have a A1A day !

Just to define a bit : a rush can't be made at minute 20... A rush is by definition a surprise, sneaky and fast attack with small troops and lots of damages on opponent's eco

Hi everyone Sanderd17 showed me this thread a moment ago, and asked me what I was thinking about that. So... let's begining from scratch. 0ad is a RTS : real time strategy. It allows to use different tactics that would allow you to gain advantage over your opponents. Even if, from my point of view, there aren't enough viable tactics (since spartans nerf :'( ). There are only two ways to win in this game (I repeat, that's not enough). Ok, let's say three. The first one : your opponents never played 0ad before and doesn't know how to get to 50pop in 8 minutes. The second one : economic boom. Expanding REALLY fast (100pop and phase 2 at minute 10 provides you a huge advantage) allows you to control 70% of the map without a lot of resistance from your opponents. If they are good on the other side of the screen, you will get in trouble, but having 2 cc on minute 12 is the most important thing you can ever do. I never lost against a defensive player, and there is a really single reason for that : they don't scout, they don't expand, and lets you control 70% of the map while they think they are protected with their walls. The problem with this way of thinking is that quickly, you will have 200pop and 3cc, while the other gets 100pop and 3 lines of walls. Which one is the most interesting to have ? Okay, it will take you longer to kill him... And that's currently my problem in the game, I can't crush easily the ennemy even if I have 300 pop and he has 150. That's a different story. Your CCC is about having fun games that don't last 1hour, and I acknowledge that. BUT if the opponent spammes champion units, you can do the same too ! Kill your citizen-soldiers and start spamming champions. You will get 100 while he has only 30, and the win if for you. It takes longer to do but... you are saying he gets the metal via markets, no ? That is your fault, not his, to let him expand his second cc, not doing any cc in the middle of the trade route, allowing him to control 50% at least of the map to be able to have profitables markets (I remind you that there's a need of distance between markets). The second way to win is a way I relly love to do, and alpha123 will agree with me : be unpredictable, do things that your opponent would never think about. Army camps and ships are the same as a back cc built thank to the fog of war and a big battle that allowed you to send 5 guys in his back while he was focusing on the battle. I don't understand why people don't like ships : they are part of the game and allows you an onther dimension of tactis and strategy. There are a few basics to get protected from ships that send troops on your back : build cc EVERYWHERE, even if there are no ressources there. If you can build a cc near your main town, the ennemy can too. And if the ennemy can, he will. And if he does, you will get in trouble really soon. If you put CC everywhere around you, you won't let place to your ennemy to build a cc near to your town thanks to the territories. So there are my thoughts : if you don't want ships, take maps whithout water. If you don't want armycamps, keep a close eye everywhere on the map, and not only on the battle main scene. For example, when I play, I focus only 30% of the time on the battle scenes. My guys know how to be brave and fight alone whithout me, and that allows me to micro and macro everywhere else I am not expected. Ah, and to bounce about the walls towers.. as FeXor said, we don't use them. Normal towers have more range, firepower and arrows thanks to the tech. And stone is too precious to be used on walls. If you really want, I can teach you the basics of sneaky strategies EDIT : I forgot to give you another advice. Never build your cc in front of ennemy's one, where you can be reached by towers or other stuff... Because you can be counterred by this kind of stuff AND you will be noticed. Always do it 150meters away, inside the fog of war

No se nota el porteño ahi. "vivia" en vez de "vivi" :þ

Tonight or i don't know when, but asap, i'll try a new thing for fields that could force you to expand. I do the test and i'll tell you all the pro-cons

Current tips, with the description : ROMAN ARMY CAMP - Build anywhere on the map, even in enemy territory. - Loses Health when in neutral or enemy territory. - Construct siege weapons and train citizen-soldiers. - Slowly Heal up to 40 garrisoned units. - Good for building a secret base behind enemy lines or to consolidate gains within enemy territory. BARRACKS - Trains all citizen-soldiers. - Research military technologies to augment your armies. - Build multiple barracks to train masses of citizen-soldiers quickly. - Build a barracks in a forward base in order to supply your assault with fresh troops. CARTHAGINIAN SACRED BAND - Champion Infantry for Carthage. - Like all pikemen, they are cavalry killers. - When in formation they are very tough from the front, even against infantry. - Vulnerable to flank and rear attacks. CATAPULTS - Ranged siege engines that are good against buildings. - May upgrade to flaming projectiles for extra effectiveness against buildings and units. - Expensive and slow. - Pack up into carts for movement, and unpack into stationary engines for attack! CELTIC WAR BARGE - A medium "trireme"-class warship. - The only ship of its kind. - Cannot ram, like other triremes, but has greater health and armour. - Can transport up to 40 units across the waters. CIVILISATION CENTRES - The "foundation" of your new colony. - Claim large tracts of territory. - Can be built in friendly and neutral territory. - Train Female Citizens and Citizen-Soldiers. EMBASSIES - Special "Barracks" available to the Carthage faction. - Train mercenaries from each of the ethnically-themed embassies. - Mercenary "citizen-soldiers" have their normal Food cost converted to Metal cost. FISHING - Fish the seas for a bountiful harvest. - Fishing boats carry a large amount of Food per trip. - Garrison a Support Unit aboard to double the Fishing Boat's gathering rate. - Careful! Fish are not an infinite resource! FORTRESS - The Fortress is usually each faction's strongest building. - Trains Champion Units, Heroes, and Siege Weapons. - Gives a population boost. - Can garrison many units for a strong defense. - Cost is between 650 Stone and 800 Stone. RESOURCE GATHERING - Use Citizen-Soldiers and Female Citizens to gather resources. - Female Citizens are bonused with Farming and Foraging. - Citizen-Soldiers are bonused with Mining. - The higher the level of Citizen-Soldier (Advanced, Elite), the better he fights, but the less efficient he is at gathering. OUTPOSTS - Build in neutral territory for a large scouting range. - Cheap, at 80 Wood. - They construct quickly, but are weak. - Lose health while in Neutral territory, but are repairable. PALISADE WALLS - A quick, cheap wooden wall available to all factions. - Most factions have access to them in Village Phase. - Attackable by enemy soldiers, unlike City Walls, which are only attackable by siege weapons. PERSIAN ARCHITECTURE - Almost all Persian buildings have +25% additional Health. - Persians also have access to a great number of structural & defensive technologies. PEZHETAIROS - The Infantry Spearman for the Macedonians. - Uses 'Syntagma' formation for high pierce attack and high armour, but slow move speed. QUINQUEREME - The heaviest warship available. The beast of the seas. - Garrison up to 50 units for tons of firepower, including ballistas and scorpions. - Has a ramming attack that sinks enemy ships in one hit. - Only available to Rome and Carthage. SAVANNA BIOME - Generally flat, with a few watering holes and rocky outcrops. - Chock full of herd animals for plentiful hunting. - Rich in all types of mining. - Wood tends to be sparse, but consists of high-yield Baobab trees. DEFENSE TOWERS - Free-standing towers good for defending large areas of countryside. - They usually cost 100 Wood and 100 Stone. Iberian Defense Towers cost 300 Stone (because they're stronger). - Has a ranged attack that increases for each garrisoned unit. SPARTIATES - Strongest infantry unit in the game. - Champion Infantry available to the Spartans faction. - Long train time, but high armor and attack. - Use the 'Phalanx' formation for extra armor bonuses. STOA - A special starting structure for the Hellenes. - Grants +10 Population. - Only enabled in some game modes. - Can be found in the Atlas editor for custom scenarios. STOREHOUSES - A cheap dropsite for non-food resources (wood, stone, metal). - Research technologies to improve the gathering capabilities of your citizens. SYNTAGMA FORMATION - A formation for 'pikeman' style infantry. - Formation is slow and cumbersome. - Nearly invulnerable from the front. - Vulnerable to attacks from the rear. TEMPLES - Town Phase structure required to upgrade to the City Phase. - Recruit Healers to heal your troops on the battlefield. - Research healing, religious devotion, and cultural technologies. - Its "aura" heals nearby units. - Garrison damaged units inside for quicker healing. TRIREME - The Medium Warship. - Available to the Romans, Carthaginians, Hellenic factions, and Persians. - Good for transporting or fighting. - Garrison a catapult aboard for a long-range siege attack. - Capable of a devastating ship-to-ship ramming attack that must recharge between each use. VARIATO - Iberian hero of the Lusitani tribe. - At least 7 campaigns against the Romans during the 'Lusitani Wars' from 147 to 139 B.C. - Fast moving and can switch between sword and flaming javelin. - His "aura" is the "Tactica Guerilla" that allows nearby Iberian units to ambush their opponents. WHALES - An oceanic resource. - 2000 Food. - Gatherable by Fishing Boats after the whale is killed. - Roam around the oceans of the game and flee when attacked.

Hi, This kind of modification is a major modifcation in the game. When we played first time with alpha123, we though it was a very big bug and ended the game xD However, i think the 5 women limitation is too low. Firstly, there is NO place where it's indicated : some text MUST tell us that it exists a limit of women per farm. Secondly, 5 women is very low. The first idea is to force players to expansion their territory, but i don't think it's really usefull to do that, since the one who has more CC has more place to attack from the enemy and more ressources to gather. The one who controls the map has a big advantage, and putting 5 women per farm isn't pertinent, in my opinion.

A simple scrollbar would be enough to reach the important buttons.

Hi guys, I wanted to use the atlas editor to do some tests with units, seeing who is better than who and all the stuff... and i can't reach the button.. See by yourself : I can't reach the buttons lower than "Simulation test", because my screen isn't height enough and there isn't any scrollbar to go down. How can i do ? Is that a bug ? Thank you, Oimat

idanwin : so you need to do a gmail account, not a youtube account And if you haven't facebook.. Don't be so protectionist, and be happy other posibilities exists ! That's why 0ad exists : to offer another posibility than aoe, same for dailymotion than youtube !

Yes alpha, would be better Geek : because for google, you need to have a gmail account or a facebook one. And i'm french so...