jonbaer

You should have included the questionnaire questions here (doing so below) and explained a bit of detail on what the mod does (at least the C++ bit) since that is the harder stuff to get access to for us OSX/Linux users. On a side note it would be nice to have a forum subtopic just for the AI bit (Petra) because I know of at least 2-3 other people tinkering w/ it and myself have been fascinated w/ the AI docs that came w/ Hannibal* and have been tinkering w/ it myself. It's obvious we want to analyze game data, apply some machine learning back into the game (either as a hobby, intro to AI or just get bots to battle it out - this game being done in Javascript could garner alot more attention if the bot code were separated out, documented, forked, and played online somewhere. It's obvious that StarCraft II BroodWar gets alot of attention but the C++ API is a bit hackish (no? I could be wrong), https://github.com/bwapi/bwapi There are alot of topics on this discuss + a decent Coursera @ https://www.coursera.org/course/aiplan What I am really thinking is that there could be a way for you to record what you have + upload to YouTube so someone can study it, this is what I have plans for (running via pyrogenesis, speeded up, 2 AIs w/ different settings, and watch it unfold - and maybe learn). * - https://github.com/agentx-cgn/Hannibal Test Participant Name: Date of Test: • – Questionnaire Nr. 1 Name of Bot: No Question Result (Yes / No) Comments 1 Did any of the bots in the previous group deviate from expectations you had on it's approach based on previously observed behavior? 2 Did any of the bots seem to change their strategy over time? 3 Did the various bots seem to act differently from one another in terms of play style? 4 Did any of the bots seem to prioritize attacking one of its enemies over the other, possible to an irrational degree? 5 Did any of the bots seem more aggressive than the others? 6 Did any of the bots seem overly defensive? 7 Did your team-mate communicate its intent well? 8 Did your team-mate seem more willing to help you fight enemies over time? 9 Did your team-mate seem more inclined to give you higher tributes over time? 10 Did your enemies seem to react to actions you made? 11 Did your team win the match? • – Questionnaire Nr. 2 Name of Bot: No Question Result (Yes / No) Comments 1 Did any of the bots in the previous group deviate from expectations you had on it's approach based on previously observed behavior? 2 Did any of the bots seem to change their strategy over time? 3 Did the various bots seem to act differently from one another in terms of play style? 4 Did any of the bots seem to prioritize attacking one of its enemies over the other, possible to an irrational degree? 5 Did any of the bots seem more aggressive than the others? 6 Did any of the bots seem overly defensive? 7 Did your team-mate communicate its intent well? 8 Did your team-mate seem more willing to help you fight enemies over time? 9 Did your team-mate seem more inclined to give you tributes over time? 10 Did your enemies seem to react to actions you made? 11 Did your team win the match? • – Questionnaire nr. 3 No Question Result (Yes / No) Comments 1 Did think the inclusion of the emotions and personality was noticeable in how one of the bots played? 2 Which set of bots do you think was modded to include personality and emotions? (name the bot in comments) 3 Which set of bots did you was the most difficult to face? (name the bot in comments) 4 Would you call yourself experienced in real-time strategy games? 5 Have you played 0 A.D. before? 6 What difficulty did you play your matches at? (name in comments)

Could not find a previous discussion on this + I don't know if this is a bug or intentional, are War elephants suppose to be able to garrison to a stable? The docs say so ("Mauryan units can "capture" Gaia elephants in the wild and garrison up to 5 of them inside the Elephant Stables.") but the template_structure_special shows <List datatype="tokens">Support Infantry Cavalry</List> ... While playing a game I wanted to hide these units as they are (probably) one of the most effective siege vs. buildings + a nice surprise when racked up. Should "Elephant" be part of the class token list?

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I just did a patch to remove the sheep from the count but in doing so pretty much questioned every other score along the way, pretty much finding this topic on the forums at least confirms some of my thinking :-) What I think should be pulled apart is what constitutes a simple "stat" (fem%, etc) vs. what is used for a "score". There are a few other items I would like to see, I think AoE-like chart summaries, timelines, etc. I haven't quite figured out how this would all be possible but one thing I thought of is if nearly all score counting can come from just the replay files themselves? (is that possible?)

Attack range is a good idea, I am not sure if you can that overlay, the Developer panel seems to show a different type of range, no attack. At the moment it's a bit difficult to determine the rank of a unit as well ...

Is it possible for gaia (ie: trees) to have both a GarrisonHolder and GarrisonArrowMultiplier?

It looks like this would cast improperly (char/string) ... I'm not 100% familiar w/ Spidermonkey yet but have you tried JS::Int32Value and passing that? ToJSVal<int>(cx, &name, *val.name);

When you hit Alt+D to bring up the Developer Overlay there is an option "Unit Motion Overlay", however it goes away when you select another unit. Also it won't show queued paths (ie the cycle as you put it), what I would think would be nice is on TAB to highlight the overlay but a ) do it for all units and b ) show the queued path as well. (I think that is different from #657) ... (these are just suggestions)

Yeah I would try dumping it out to the game console, something I would use: warn(JSON.stringify(emoState)); Do you have a repo for this fork yet?

Man I didn't even know that, just cut my idle workers down to 0% ;-) Is there a way to determine to tell what the workers plans are? That would actually be a nice addition to the TAB key if it could be implemented, to see a resource pathfinder for a worker, etc. Just a thought.

Hmmm, there is this bit here (in which case I changed flushcache to true instead of false (as it is hardcoded in Atlas), but did not seem to have any effect) - thought it would have caused the template to be read again + re rendered ... http://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk/source/tools/atlas/GameInterface/Messages.h#L391 MESSAGE(SetActorViewer, ((std::wstring, id)) ((std::wstring, animation)) ((int, playerID)) ((float, speed)) ((bool, flushcache)) // true => unload all actor files before starting the preview (because we don't have proper hotloading yet) );

I am not sure that applies to the Actor files, I read on the engine documentation: "The Atlas GUI is also scriptable. It is implemented in binaries/data/tools/atlas/scripts. Atlas also supports ''hotloading'' GUI scripts, so it is possible to edit a script and immediately see its effect in a running Atlas window. The goal is to eventually support hotloading for the game GUI and possibly even game logic scripts in 0 A.D." While I can't see a "scripts" directory it looks like a TemplateLoader (C++) isn't really called anywhere, which I am assuming would reload an entity. What I mean by this is say for example I removed this, <prop actor="props/units/heads/spart_agis.xml" attachpoint="helmet"/>, to see that change in Atlas w/o having to restart.

Learned that the hard way :-) BTW, are there any docs in reference to the "mirage" features? I noticed some SVN commits in regards to mirage markets but would like to understand the concept more.

Hi, Trying to figure out if I am missing a hotkey or if this is possible, in pyrogenesis -editor, the Actor viewer does not seem to pick up XML changes, is there a hack to do this? Thanks. - Jon

I noticed a few peculiarities while working on removing sheep counts in an open ticket, I haven't quite documented it yet, I think what happens is that overall *all* Classes seem to get tallied up while it should negate the edge cases (in other words there might be more than trained sheep which should be removed from total), but I haven't quite figured out what the math rules for the game are to say for sure. I also noticed this while working on a more advanced real-time diplomacy screen (this gave a better picture).

Hi, is there a document which will list *all* of the possible classes somewhere? I wanted to know if this existed before attempting to grep them all out. ie: <Classes datatype="tokens">Animal Organic -ConquestCritical</Classes> Thanks.

Yeah I was trying to get some idea from this convert attack mod @ https://github.com/0ADMods/convert_attack ... what I was trying to do was make an infantry convertible to enemy @ training time but non attackable. I am pretty sure I will be able to get the behavior I want w/ some special configuration of the attributes that are already available.

The depth part on the mining is very interesting. While I doubt it will be part of the game soon, mine depth would be nice to explore, I had no idea that oil exploitation went so far back until I read on the ancient Chinese bit ... http://csegrecorder.com/articles/view/ancient-chinese-drilling (as I wanted to add oil as a resource using this mod (https://github.com/0ADMods/resource_agnostic) but was not sure if it made much sense). It sounds like the Thracians would have a nice "technology" line in the later phases, I think between developing the templates, the technology tree, and balancing you will be very busy.

@Orpheus From my own experience, I have created a mod w/ 2 factions, this is what I would do, you should look at a template for one of the other factions, ie http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Athenians and fill out as much info as possible, this can even take a long time, when you have it filled out I am sure someone can template what you have w/ the Athenians so that your civ is playable in your own mod and then you can slowly fill it out from there, I am sure that is how the other mods (Hans, Millenium, Ariesta, etc) started out. Once you add something new everyday it builds up + I am sure will be playable + enjoyable.

This is almost what I am saying, it should be easier for him to fill in the blanks of a new Civ somehow, by the time he finished ranting he would have been ~40% complete w/ templates by now ;-) ... I know the 3D modeling / textures / sounds are more than half the battle but his knowledge of history and effort to write a well thought out post has to be worth compiling somewhere I think. I don't know the full developmental history of the game to recommend anything though, just pointing out what I think might help other people tackle Civ development in the future. I also don't know if it's technically possibly to develop Civs independently like that but my guess is from the mods I have seen it should be (and was designed as such). What I think would be nice to have is something like @ https://github.com/0admods where there is a civ-athens (or civ-developer-kit) project that might be an extracted Civ to show what is involved in generating such a mod.

@Itms I am curious, what is the story/status w/ your POC patch - was that part of something else that was in discussion (beyond the Stamina ticket mentioned), is there harm in adding the C++ bit so people can use it or is there something else in the works that this would be a part of? Sorry tried back searching the Trac history but could not find anything.

Oh man that TAB key is super helpful, I thought I missed something in the game manual but that hotkey is not even mentioned in-game or online (http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/HotKeys) ...

While I have enjoyed every single mod that has come along (or that I have since discovered), one thing I wish did not happen is that a mod was inclusive of a collection of civ(s) and that as a developer/artist there was some type of "Civ Development Kit" for 0ad. This way people can come along and delve into a Civ w/ an easier path (or at least push one w/o it affecting anything else). There is an enormous challenge in balancing and even separating the 12 civs already in the game but at some point it would still be nice to go to a repository somewhere and view all available civs in a tree directory w/ READMEs, docs, etc. The drawback of course being that every civ would need to be tested back against the HEAD copy of the game for incompatibilities, etc.

Yeah that is the main thing about the game I wish was a big more segmented is the fact that drop sites (+ farmsteads) don't really hold their own values (that you could steal from and target). I haven't really thought this out as much but what would be great is if drops actually required certain individuals to move between drops and civic centers to account for the resource, ie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banker_(ancient)#Ancient_Greek (trapezites) ... I like the fact that these entities (spy,assassin,thief,banker) have an almost secondary play on watching enemy resources which affects military gameplay.

How hard / difficult would it be to create a template_unit_support for thieves which would be market traders that had one way deduction from an enemies resource? I am trying to determine if this is something which could be completely accomplished outside of the game engine itself (in simulation .js) before attempting. What I think is mainly missing is the ability to be a non-detectible entity, for example one to be used for spying as well (to open the fog of war, etc), so you can not cloak the player color so they are not detected. What I could picture is having an entity like that + the enemy does not realize they are attackable until they hover over them. In this way a thief or spy would be uncovered. I am mainly trying to understand if these 2 entity types would be programmable in the current state or requires alot more development in the engine itself. I can't remember offhand how they worked in AoE but I remember they gave LOS (spying) ...