Americans and my twisted view on their religions..

[ZeZar]

Hey. I want to make this thread as short as possible so i might be very direct =(

Anyway, we all see on TV all the big afro-americans singing on Churches and like every American is a good Christian, and i try to be that too, so i have always wanted to move to America, where they have cheap fastfood and most of the kids seems Christians =)

Though in movies there are ALWAYS cursing, and really, really bad words.

I know what Moth`er @#$%`er means, but is it really cursing? Like He`ll and Go`d ...

@#$%`er and all that is just like when i say "puss`y" right? When i use grose words and words like di`ck and and all that, thats not cursing is it?

And is cursing like this so accepted in American movies? In Norwegian movies its a big deal when you curse, but it doesnt seem like it bother americans?

Fill me in please =)

[EKen132]

Well I definately can't speak for the whole country, since I've only been exposed to my own suburban area.

As for everyone being Christian: it is definately not true. I've been to church in Europe in a few different places, and I can say that in America, there are always more people there, and always a lot more families. But the churches are never filled unless it's Christmas or Easter, and quite a few earn the nickname "Chreaster", someone who goes to church only on Christmas and Easter.

What you're seeing with African Americans singing is more of a southern protestant thing, and I live in the north (and I'm Catholic), so I can't comment too much on it.

As for the swearing in movies, movies that use more than the occasional d*mn and sh*t (unless they're war movies, which seems to justify it to a greater degree) definately have a narrower audience. Maybe a dozen to two dozen really popular movies a year have no restraints on their language, and that number of pop. movies usually portray teens having a lot of sex and drinking and doing drugs a lot. For movies like those, maybe 15% of the population of teenagers really likes them, and maybe a third to half of the kids have even seen the movie. A lot of kids find the movies tasteless or only a few parts funny, and only a very few actually talk like that, and most of them aren't on the right track in life in general.

As for the curse words, do not get the idea that these are widely used in public. To say "mother f*cker" in public is definately unnacceptable, and the same goes for p*ssy, c*nt, d*ck, and the like. In situations where there are only teenagers around though, you'll often hear these words. But parents never like to hear them, and no one really uses them in public.

And using God's name in vain is, contrary to what you might expect in a "Christian" society, quite accepted. You'll hear it all the time if you come here.

The words sh*t, d*mn, h*ll, even f*ck sometimes are used in movies that are watched by all segments of the population- little kids to grandmas. But movies that use c*nt, p*ssy, c*ck- those are usually more aimed at the male 13 to 30 segment of the population.

Hope that helps answer some of your questions.

[Lord Zorinthrox]

Yes, Eken132 described things perfectly (inner city talk can, of course, be a bit rougher). That is one of the worst things about American culture: it seems only the really un-representative stuff is exported. I saw a documentary once on the Middle East, and people were judging America on the TV of ours that they got, which consisted largely of Jerry Springer-type shows. The number one thing that got their dander up, though, was sex before marriage, which does seem rather common here, but I have a feeling that that is prevalent in most places, it just isn't as...open as it is here (I think...)

Just to put things in perspective, that is a dozen movies out of maybe one to two hundred? It hard to tell, but every week there is at least two to four new movies in the theatres.

The funny thing about the Christian-ish vibe most people get about America is that 75% fot he populous claims to be Christian -- a large section of this doesn't necesarily hold to the full working meaning of the word. From Religious Tolerance.Org(Article)

During 2001-FEB to APR, the Graduate Center of the City University of New York conducted an American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS). It was a massive poll, questioning 50,281 American adults about their religious affiliations during 2001-FEB to APR. 2 They obtained some results that are noticeably different from the Pluralism Project's data. The differences are mainly because they asked their poll subjects what religion they considered themselves to be, rather than what religion they were actually affiliated with. Results included:

76.5% of American adults are Christian (52% Protestant; 24.5% Catholic).

14.1% do not follow any organized religion; they are Agnostics, Atheists, Humanists, Secularists, or have no religious affiliation.

1.3% are Jewish.

0.5% are Muslim, followers of Islam.

0.5% are Buddhist.

0.4% are Hindu.

0.3% are Unitarian Universalist.

0.1% are Neopagan (Druids, Pagans, Wiccans, etc) 

There are many more small religions, each of whom are followed by fewer than 0.1% of American adults.

And that is with the percentage of Christians falling by a remarkable 1% a year. Meaning we are now at approx. 73.5% Christian. So I suppose you could say a majority are Christian, but the divisions are so rampant that it is rediculous to say the Christians rule or anything, there are literaly thousands of different sects, many of which probably don't get along and have conflicting interests.

[Mythos_Ruler]

And the thing about that poll, as was stated, is that the questions asked which religions they identify themselves with, not necessarily if they actually follow the tenants of that religion or church. For instance, I know many people who identify themselves as Baptist or Catholic or whatever, but don't ever go to church. For the longest time I used to call myself Catholic (more specifically, "I was baptized Catholic") but never went to church and didn't really believe in the Church.

About curse words, they are very prevelant, but as Erik pointed out there are subtle differences between the different curse words that determine when and where they are acceptable to use. I have observed that even in business, or other stricter settings (business meetings, worship centers, etc.), the acceptability of the use of curse words falls to the most prestigious member of the group in that setting. For instance, a bunch of underlings at a business meeting won't curse, but the boss can throw a few epithets around here and there and it would be completely acceptable.

And about TV, funny how ZeZar gets the exact opposite reaction about America from TV as middle eastern Moslems do... perhaps it's the programming being shown to the seperate groups of people? Propaganda from Arab TV stations maybe? At any rate, watching American television, I personally discern no great indication that the United States citizenry is more or less christian than we actually are (as a people, not regarding individuals).

[CrazyThumbs]

There are some people who try to limit cursing and other things like the FCC (I hate them). It's funny how they sued a channel for airing Saving Private Ryan, not because of all the violence and people dieing in horible ways, but because there were a few curses. They go on about Christian morals and such, so they sued them for half a million dollars, but greed is one of the worse sins hmmmm

Edited July 5, 2005 by CrazyThumbs

[Mythos_Ruler]

I am none too fond of the FCC either. It is the typical buracracy growing beyond its original mandate of assigning and maintaining airwave signals.

[Argalius]

If you think they curse in American movies much, then you haven't seen any Dutch movies. In every Dutch move you'll find naked people, sex, f*ck etc. They suck btw

[ZeZar]

If you think they curse in American movies much, then you haven't seen any Dutch movies. In every Dutch move you'll find naked people, sex, f*ck etc. They suck btw

←

Gotta download some Dutch movien then (a joke)

Yes thanks a lot Eken, it helped a lot =)

The wierd is that in Norway (at least where i live and my friends) people talk a lot about how twisted the Americans are. They claim to be Christians but in movies and series they curse like its everything they've done all life.

And i think a lot of us think so, like the America Pie movies, Eurotrip, Action movies like Mr. Smith (comedy / action) and The Punisher (been the last 2 action movies I've seen). I dont know really about p*ssy and "regular" cursing like h*ll, but what does f*ck really means? I was sure that meant having sex right? Why is it used to much... we dont have a similiar words in Norway, its really wierd

Anyway, thanks for all answers, this really helps me alot =)

[CrazyThumbs]

Go to ebaumsworld.com the have a video on th f-word and its many uses, even though it is funny it will probably answer your question on what it really means, go to flash animation, its in there somewhere.

[EKen132]

Originally it meant to have sex / rape, but now (starting in the 70s) it seems to mean anything under the sun, and for those with a really low vocabulary, it can be applied to anything.

Movies such as Eurotrip and American Pie are exactly what I had in mind when I said:

Maybe a dozen to two dozen really popular movies a year have no restraints on their language, and that number of pop. movies usually portray teens having a lot of sex and drinking and doing drugs a lot. For movies like those, maybe 15% of the population of teenagers really likes them, and maybe a third to half of the kids have even seen the movie. A lot of kids find the movies tasteless or only a few parts funny, and only a very few actually talk like that, and most of them aren't on the right track in life in general.

[Mythos_Ruler]

The wierd is that in Norway (at least where i live and my friends) people talk a lot about how twisted the Americans are. They claim to be Christians but in movies and series they curse like its everything they've done all life.

Who claims the be "christian"? I certainly don't. My friends don't. To me (and to many others), curse words are only words. Words change meaning according to context and intention of the speaker.

And i think a lot of us think so, like the America Pie movies, Eurotrip, Action movies like Mr. Smith (comedy / action) and The Punisher (been the last 2 action movies I've seen).

I assure you, Mr. & Mrs. Smith did not use the F word at all in the script. In fact, cursing in the movie was kept to a minimum. How do I know this? Because of the rating. A PG-13 movie is only allowed to use the F word once, after that it becomes an R. Weird criteria, I know. No one ever said the MPAA had reason or logic.

As for American Pie, it's called a comedy for a reason. In fact it's farcical, taking absurd situations and turning them into comedy. You equating this with actual American lifestyles says more about your (mis)understanding of the medium of film, than the lifestyle of the average American.

[ZeZar]

I guess thats true. But yesterday i saw Friends again, and man do they curse. He*l me there and h*ll me here =P

Anyway, i dont say that you claim to be Christians, but its really what we get the impression of around here.

I.E: On the Terrorist attack on World Trade centre, i saw TONS of interviews, and like 99% of them, they said like: "god help us", "im gonna pray tonight" and it was all about God. I am a Christian, so i thought this was cool, but my friends always say "The Americans are so fake" ... And i see their point, still, i dont get why you have to use bad words in movies, and i know most movies doesnt use F word and all that, but they use "h*ll" and "Holy Chri*t", and thats cursing right?

Thanks again for all reply's

[ProgramZeta]

I believe we kind of have a "step-down" system for curse words - after certain ages words once considered "curse" words are OK to use. Religion and personal morals also come into play, but so far as being publicly repremanded for using a word, age is the major factor.

h*ll is one of those that after you get out of childhood, it pretty OK in general...

I don't think Chr*st is considered a curse word at all, with a minority of the population genuinely offended by it.

[Mythos_Ruler]

I fail to see how cussing in times of crisis makes one a bad christian, Zezar. Also, about the "fake" part, surely you understand the difference between the movies and reality?

[EKen132]

I fail to see how cussing in times of crisis makes one a bad christian, Zezar.

I don't believe he said that. And in "times of crisis", you'd think there would be a little more leniancy. But as for the characters in American Pie, they are in no terrible crisis.

As for h*ll and Christ, I'd say those are thrown around pretty frequently in everyday conversation. Here, let me just make a list of when these words are used:

H*ll: day-to-day adults and teens, plenty of movies, not the most socially acceptable word to use if you're talking about anything other than the place itself (ha, and even that bugs some people).

D*mn: day-to-day adults and teens, plenty of movies (mostly PG-13 and up), also not a great word to use in public.

Sh*t: day-to-day teens, maybe for some adults, plenty of movies (PG-13+), don't really use it in public.

F*ck: day-to-day for some teenagers, but usually they are, like I said earlier "not on the right track in life" anyways. Rarer for most teens, and not very frequent in most adults (at least that I know). Movies gain R if they have it a bunch, and definately don't say it in public.

C*nt, p*ssy, c*ck: Yeah these are pretty vulgar and very rare among adults. As for teens, anyone that uses them could be considered vulgar and they're definately curse words. The movies that have these are those few dozen or so a year that have no bounds on language. Also you could throw in a few race names here too.

Also, saying God or Christ is pretty much acceptable anywhere, even though you don't see it in most G or PG movies anyways.

As for the movies making Americans look fake: you are right. But in the movies, the situations are usually completely different than in day-to-day life (that's why they make them into movies, huh ). That basically covers all the action and war movies. For the comedies, especially the male 13-35 aimed ones, they are a representation of the most vulgar of Americans. Those people don't usually concern themselves with Christianity anyhow. As for the rest of the movies, or sitcoms like Friends, those should probably show just about how much Americans swear in their day-to-day lives.

You are right Zezar, there is a lot of hypocrisy in American culture. It is good that you are trying to point it out, because for the seemingly Christian facade we have, especially to the rest of the world, many Christians in America don't do a whole lot to live up to their religion. Me being Catholic, I know that "Cafeteria Catholicism" is popular- you pick and choose which rules you want to follow, and you wouldn't believe what some people do and still call themselves Christian here.

Anyhow, hypocrisy has been around just as long as human beings, and every religion, belief system, and code has it's hypocrites. Those who don't want to follow what they still want to belong to are doing a disservice to themselves and the others who do try to follow the religion. Anyhow, ZeZar, I'm glad that you are concerned about this problem, and in a way, I'm glad you are mad at it.

You know, about the only name that Jesus ever called anyone was "hypocrite", so know that it's good you sense something wrong with this picture here.

[Blorx2]

Just got to ask but are you insulting Catholics?!

[EKen132]

No. I am a Catholic, as I said, and so I know that a lot of Catholics (in name only, it appears) "pick and choose", like in a cafeteria, which rules they would like to follow. It follows along the same lines as Zezar saying that America appears to be a Christian country yet our movies and shows are filled with curses.

[ProgramZeta]

I believe you can only have one "sh*t" or "fv*k" and have a movie PG-13

[Mythos_Ruler]

It follows along the same lines as Zezar saying that America appears to be a Christian country yet our movies and shows are filled with curses.

However, and this has been my point all along, movies and shows have never been *truly* representative of the American culture. Sure, in the 1950s there were shows like "Leave it to Beaver" and "The Andy Griffith Show," that had NO cursing and little to NO selacious subject matter, but did these shows truly represent the way America was at that time? Does ANY Western country's popular culture truly represent that country's traditional lifestyle? In this, I wouldn't put America's supposed hypocracy over other nations'. So what of it, though? Entertainment has always been escapism in one form or another, and is never meant to be truly representative (as a whole) of current culture.

[EKen132]

No, but to a degree one would think it points in the right direction. That is the point here.

Besides, this really isn't a debate.

[ZeZar]

Thanks a lot EKen132, you've really helped me. =)

I guess its true that you cant go around saying that movies reflects upon the trouth about a country, but i live in Norway, you have to understand, its the only thing i have as an impression of the USA. Movies, TVshows and some American news channels =)

And i guess that of course, it's all over the world. I think most countries would sacrifise a lot just to seem good to the other countries.

In Norway our "president", or head of state if you want, couldnt really decide whether Norway should be a part of the Iraq war, because he didnt want to seem like a "rebel" upon Germany and France, at the same time he did not want to destroy our great relationship with the USA, so he kept sending mixed signals in speeches and so on ...

@Blorx2: You have to understand that we are just descussing some topics, nothing personal at all in anything said in this thread.

Still, the only country that really seems to want to world to think its a great, perfect, Christian country is the USA. No offence but as i have said in my former posts here, it really seems like you Americans wants us to think that you are great Christians, yet in your media and stuff like that it seems like you have low respect for stuff like that.

If anyone in Noway had said "God" og "Jesus" it would have been pretty bad, at least if you are with the right kind of guys. Like you say Erik (eken), the community your in plays a big role. In my community God and Jesus and "Oh my God" is some pretty bad words, at least i never say them.

Still, im 17 and at least for a couple of years ago, i often said words like "p*ssy, d*ck" and all that, but who didnt? I concider cursing as a call for the devil or using Gods / Jesus's name the wrong way.

And its really true also what you say Erik, theres a lot of those "Christians" in Norway also, that only does what they think or want to be right. Its like some of my friends claim to be Christians, but they curse, get drunk all the time, has no respect at all for sex and all that, does really whatever they want, and say often to me (they are really nice people, but i beilieve they have misunderstood their Reiligion) that "The bible says nothing about One Night Stands", and even though i say it DOES, doesnt help. It seems like they want the religion as a "security" in case it really is true, they come to heaven ...

Anyway, want to thank everyone, especially Erik aka EKen132 for really nice reply's that have helped me a lot in my difficulties on understanding some reiligion related subjects =)