About the Glory resource gathering - sacrifice proposal

[Alar1k]

Hi, I am just recently discovering your mod and having magnificent fun playing around with civilizations  - you really did an excellent job in developing such nice gameplay mechanics such as the "glory resource" - I would therefore like to suggest a slight addition to it - what do you say to adding "ritual sacrifice" to the mechanic - for example you sacrifice an animal from the corral or human citizen/captured slave with a priest unit and then you get an instant glory points - like 20-50 depending on the animal and 80-120 depending on if it's slave/citizen/citizen-soldier

Reason I think it would help is - first of all I see Zapotecs slaves cost glory - and glory is hard to come by early on when you need an economy boost quickly - seems as they are lagging behind in eco compared to other civilisations even tho making that unit cost glory is excellent in theory I think it needs an early boost - you could add sacrifice the goats like you have burning pigs (that click to upgrade) so you can gather a bit glory in t1 faster - goat is 60 food and it should give 20 glory for balance example, cow could be

Also - I think it might be interesting to set an upper limit to glory resource - like if you are in town phase you can have max of for example 600 glory - and each phase has more glory to store - since it would balance overproduction of glory later on in the game - from these few days I played glory stood out the most to me and I really see the potential in this aspect of the game - really is something very innovative and a breath of fresh air

 

I cannot express with words how much I am fascinated with the whole mode - really really great job!

 

I have a few suggestions about hero buffs as well - when I collect all ideas on the one place I will post that as well when I play with civiliastions a bit more - would really like if there were some people that play this mod online but I had no luck finding anybody yet and AI isn't the best to find balanced ideas for hero choices I think

[AIEND]

In general, sacrifices can be of many kinds of food, not necessarily livestock.
If it is a human sacrifice, prisoners of war are generally used. I don't know if the mod will add prisoner of war resources.
Perhaps a "sacrifice" technology should be added directly to the temple, which can repeatedly spend food to research, and the effect of the technology is to bring a fixed amount of glory.
"Sacrificing" can also be done in several grades, and you can choose to sacrifice different amounts of food in exchange for more or less glory, which is easier to operate.

[Alar1k]

Well thing is I don't think if you could just dictate how much food you will trade for glory kinda beats the purpose of the glory resource in itself - it is not just trading x food for y glory - it should be more like a process - you take xy time to produce said unit and the unit you can then use for other stuff rather then glory

- thing is - if there is a glory statue building there should also be another way to gather glory other then fighting before you can build temple

Ptolemies do get the statue to gather glory from the start as their basic buildings cost glory as well - Zapotecs are kinda behind with how much 1 war captive costs (80 glory) - since if you can research "animal sacrifice" at corral you could produce goats and trickle a bit of glory from the early phases as Zapotecs to prepare for when you need glory for war captive production - and later on you can "upgrade" a war captive with that as you would "upgrade" champion units to toggle weapons - but before that priest needs to research "human sacrifice" so you can designate other troops to them for some glory points

 

In any case glory points should have a limit determined by the phase you are in - starting with say 300 glory for phase 1, 500 at phase 2, 1000 at phase 3 and 5000 for phase 4 for example (eliminating player from the game would maybe raze the limit for a few thousands in multiplayer?) - so it would stop the overflow of glory in the later stages of the game and make the early glory points a bit easier to come by

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

All good thoughts from both of you.

 

I have thought about "Sacrifice" as a concept in the mod, specifically for the Zapotecs/Mesoamerican civs. I've only now really thought about how to do it. @Alar1k gave me a hint by mentioning the upgrade feature. What I could do is allow you to 'Upgrade' individual slaves or animals to a 'Sacrifice' version of themselves that has a glory trickle of 1 second interval, but the new unit has a health drain that kills it before the 2nd second comes around, so it looks like you've gotten a burst of glory from killing the unit. 

 

7 hours ago, AIEND said:

"Sacrificing" can also be done in several grades, and you can choose to sacrifice different amounts of food in exchange for more or less glory, which is easier to operate.

Yes, I thought about modding the Temple to allow you to "barter" resources for Glory, but that's before I came up with the statue concept.

 

6 hours ago, Alar1k said:

In any case glory points should have a limit determined by the phase you are in - starting with say 300 glory for phase 1, 500 at phase 2, 1000 at phase 3 and 5000 for phase 4 for example (eliminating player from the game would maybe raze the limit for a few thousands in multiplayer?) - so it would stop the overflow of glory in the later stages of the game and make the early glory points a bit easier to come by

I wish I could do this. Perhaps the base game could be patched to allow a flag to be included in the resource file that dictates "maximum" resource amounts. @Freagarach

Edited March 20, 2022 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Alar1k]

6 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

All good thoughts from both of you.

 

I have thought about "Sacrifice" as a concept in the mod, specifically for the Zapotecs/Mesoamerican civs. I've only now really thought about how to do it. @Alar1k gave me a hint by mentioning the upgrade feature. What I could do is allow you to 'Upgrade' individual slaves or animals to a 'Sacrifice' version of themselves that has a glory trickle of 1 second interval, but the new unit has a health drain that kills it before the 2nd second comes around, so it looks like you've gotten a burst of glory from killing the unit. 

 

Yes, I thought about modding the Temple to allow you to "barter" resources for Glory, but that's before I came up with the statue concept.

 

I wish I could do this. Perhaps the base game could be patched to allow a flag to be included in the resource file that dictates "maximum" resource amounts. @Freagarach

 

I like the sound of that - and in case you cannot limit the resource maximum point - i propose that everything gets progressively more glory expensive - like let's say first phase is starter phase and things shouldn't really be costing a whole lot of glory, phase 2 - you can make temples and glory statues - make things cost a few hundred glory or so - city phase - each upgrade costs in thousands of glory from 1000-5000 glory for most important research and phase four upgrades are extra expensive and - wounder eats away some glory every few seconds for the upkeep and if you loose all glory you loose wonder to gaia? - That would make players think: "Can I afford the upgrade if I get rushed and my priests die? Will I loose pop bonus if I cannot produce enough glory in time?" - would make phase four more challenging

 

And yeah - can't wait to see the "sacrifice" implemented - another idea: maybe even get a tech "obsidian ritual daggers" in city phase right beside "state religion" tech at temple - "sacrifice costs 50 more coins (or metal) but gives double glory"

[AIEND]

13 小时前，wowgetoffyourcellphone 说：

是的，我考虑过修改神殿以让你“以物易物”资源换取荣耀，但那是在我提出雕像概念之前。

There is a similar resource "faith" in my mod. At first, I used the temple to provide trickle. Later, I thought it was too slow or not dynamic enough, so I added "faith" as a loot to all units, so that killing enemies would be easy "faith" can be obtained.
In this way, players are encouraged to take the initiative to fight, and to carefully conserve their troops.
"Age of Mythology" inspired me.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, AIEND said:

There is a similar resource "faith" in my mod. At first, I used the temple to provide trickle. Later, I thought it was too slow or not dynamic enough, so I added "faith" as a loot to all units, so that killing enemies would be easy "faith" can be obtained.
In this way, players are encouraged to take the initiative to fight, and to carefully conserve their troops.
"Age of Mythology" inspired me.

Indeed! In Delenda Est there are 3 ways to acquire glory: build statues, pray to them, or kill enemy units. All 3 are inspired by Age of Mythology.

[AIEND]

53 分钟前，wowgetoffyourcellphone 说：

确实！ 在 Delenda Est 中，有 3 种获得荣耀的方法：建造雕像、向它们祈祷或杀死敌方单位。 所有 3 都受到神话时代的启发。

Maybe add some religious holiday celebrations, like in old Age of Empires 3, where Native Americans danced around bonfires.

Edited March 21, 2022 by AIEND

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 21/03/2022 at 5:58 AM, AIEND said:

Maybe add some religious holiday celebrations, like in old Age of Empires 3, where Native Americans danced around bonfires.

I would like to do thing like this as well. It would take scripting beyond my current level of skill though. 

Greek civs could have a "Civic Festival" where the units parade around the Civic Center throwing palm leaves everywhere. The Athenians' version could be called "Panathenaic Festival."

Roman civs a "Triumph."

Celtic/Iberian/Germanic civs could have a "Harvest Festival" where they sing and dance around Farmsteads; generates Glory and Food.

Mauryas a "Tantric Fertility Festival"? Generates Glory and boosts training times substantially.

Kushites could have a "Royal Procession"?

Carthaginians a choice between a festival to Ba'al (boosts soldiers) or a festival to Tanit (boosts citizens).

Persians?

Han Chinese?

Noba can have a "Fertility Rite" where female citizens stomp around and male units cower in fear. This was a real thing.

Scythians maybe their Shamans (healer class units) can dance around their Ovoo structures in a psychedelic trance while shrieking and beating their drums. Generates Glory and Stone.

Xiongnu and Huns their cavalry can ride around in a big circle, generating Glory and XP (and lots of noise and dust).

Edited April 4, 2022 by wowgetoffyourcellphone