===[COMMITTED]=== Fox

[Micket]

Indeed, you should only be unwrapping the mirror half.

For some reason, you still seem to have a bunch of tiny pieces, like single triangles? How are you creating this UV-map? I'm surprised to see a bunch of lose triangles, one seems to be disconnected from the head (as seens as a black triangle in the texture).

I always mark up the seems, as if i was skinning the animal, and then do a normal "unwrap" in blender. Then i tweak them a bit manually (this automatic one has just texture space 50% utilization)

[Enrique]

Indeed, you should only be unwrapping the mirror half.

For some reason, you still seem to have a bunch of tiny pieces, like single triangles? How are you creating this UV-map? I'm surprised to see a bunch of lose triangles, one seems to be disconnected from the head (as seens as a black triangle in the texture).

I always mark up the seems, as if i was skinning the animal, and then do a normal "unwrap" in blender. Then i tweak them a bit manually (this automatic one has just texture space 50% utilization)

There are a bunch of automatic UV unwrapping options in blender, generally for cube-ish and for small props that don't require much attention to where seams are placed. Also "smart UV project" is very useful for mappings when stretching is not so important, like AO maps or light/shadow maps. Basically, it creates a seam where there's an angle of X degrees between faces and there are some more options that let you customize a little further the automatic unwrap. However it is unpractical for more detailed assets or assets where you want to control the seams by yourself.

[Stan`]

I used the old model and tweaked it removed the tail and the head by using seems The thing I dońt like when making mirrored texture is the middle seamlooks a bit weird. I ´ll cut it in half and redo the uv if you want

[Enrique]

That's why the rest of the texture around the UV islands should be painted with the average color of the texture or use the bleed option when texture painting (called margin when baking) to paint outside the UV islands of the unwrap and prevent texture bleeding or the "black seam" that usually happen when not painted with the margins

[Stan`]

Yeah but often the symmetry is quite visible

[Stan`]

Anyway...

[Tobi95]

I know, it gets annoying, but you could still make better use of your texture space, by scaling, rotating and moving your island, so that there isn't as much black on the texture.

[Stan`]

As long As I get better...

Edited October 15, 2014 by stanislas69

[Wijitmaker]

This might be helpful?

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?229470-Fox& and http://lucasfalcao.wordpress.com/making-of/making-of-red-fox/

Edited October 16, 2014 by Wijitmaker

[Stan`]

It is, well maybe not for 0ad cause it's really complex but it's really interesting. May I have your advice on the current state of my fox ? #31 is still accurate

[Wijitmaker]

Yes, that is a little higher poly than you'd put in the game, but I do like his proportions and scale.

A few comments on #31

I would try and unify the mapping more. Often the problem with doing that is that it will cause the texture to stretch and pull, but there are some neat features in 3ds max - one is called pelt mapping. See the demos here:

http://3d-studio-max.wonderhowto.com/how-to/use-pelt-mapping-3d-studio-max-376299/

If you unify the UV mapping you will also have less seams in your texture, which is good. One thing to remember is the perspective of the model in the game. Most everything is top down isometric angle, so try to avoid placing UV seams in a highly visible areas.

There is something funky going on with the mesh at the top of the head near the ears. The ears don't have to be a part of the body. They could be just a separate attached mesh.

Add more geometry at the joints, this will help when it is in animation and there will be less low poly mesh distortion.

This used to be a bigger deal back in the older days of slower computers... but take advantage of left and right side mirroring, that maximizes the use of texture space.

Double check your proportions... This looks like a great resource:

http://design.tutsplus.com/tutorials/how-to-draw-animals-foxes--cms-19886

Edited October 16, 2014 by Wijitmaker

[Stan`]

Funny you say that cause I didn't add much polys from the original already in the game =)

I'll edit the ears I was affraid separating them would look weird in the anim.

Before I saw your post I tried with the AO

Probably need to make it fatter then... Though in my reference it was pretty skinny

Edited October 16, 2014 by stanislas69

[Micket]

Really though guys, the seams aren't that visible if you have some bleed margins for the texture painting.
Squeezing out more texture space than 65-70% is probably never worth it either (you won't be able to get 100%, so perhaps, at best, you might be able to reach 80%). It would only be a very marginal gain in texture resolution.

So, when point out things, it's not because I think this isn't good enough for 0AD, it's just.. things I believe you could easily do, and it would make it nicer.

My biggest critique of the current model + texture would be the ears, though I would actually not suggest having them as detached objects, but you should definitely put a seam around them, and along the ridge of the ear, so that they will unwrap nicely.

The picky side of me also isn't to found of the shape of the legs, in particular the back legs.

[Enrique]

I'm giving this advice for various reasons, the first is that with several unconnected parts and excess of seams and 0 pixels of bleed margins in the islands with black surrounding the texture, it is assured that there will be several black seams visible from the normal camera distance in the game. (Even if it is not visible in the screenshots because the distance of the camera when the shot was taken)

Another reason is for teaching good practices in 3D graphics, mirroring UVs in symmetric assets for increased texture space, minimal seam unwrapping and clever seam placing are the core subjects for a good 3D artist. I didn't mean to nitpick on this task with no basis.

[Stan`]

So, when point out things, it's not because I think this isn't good enough for 0AD, it's just.. things I believe you could easily do, and it would make it nicer.

Help me to get better. That's why I am here. Contributing to 0ad is making to pleasures at once.

Feedback ?

[Micket]

The UV-coordinates for the tail is only mirrored in the vertical plane, but it seems you have still mirrored the texture in the horizontal plane, which is quite noticeable but not at all necessary. Was this a limitation of the available texture paint references?

I thought the leg texture looked better before (if anything, the body should be a bit lighter rather than darkening the legs, if we compare to the photo you posted earlier).

[Stan`]

Yeah I mirrored for a reason I can't remember.

Remade the legs an made the mirror in the tail less obvious.

Edited October 18, 2014 by stanislas69

[Wijitmaker]

Could you post a version with the wireframe? I'll give you some feedback.

[Stan`]

Here it is

[Wijitmaker]

Sent you an email (for some reason the attach files doesn't work from my workplace computer).

Hopefully you see this as constructive feedback This is also slightly subjective. I'm kind of old school low poly in my methods. Enrique and Micket might give you a little different guidance, so take this advice with a grain of salt.

[Stan`]

Thanks haven't read it yet. Mind If i post what you said here for the next generation of artists ? =)

Edited October 20, 2014 by stanislas69

[Wijitmaker]

Sure, feel free

[feneur]

Thanks for being so helpful btw Jason, it's always nice to see the knowledge of the "old" members being forwarded to new contributors

[Wijitmaker]

Absolutely, I'm always here to help if someone asks

I have witnessed a lot of talent develop here over many years.

[Stan`]

Here is the image =)

A few Questions. I'm all for more polys, but I was wondering, who did the fox I edited (I just retextured it) cause it's not really me who chose how it was done.

For the Seams I'm not really confident on how to do it (Mostly did it that way because it allowed me to use the most space) I can always texture the seams with a half transparent brush to make the seam disapear.

On the face do you mean there are two much polys ?