For tribute, a Caravan unit

[Centurion]

Hello members of 0 A.D. As of yet, I haven't played 0 A.D., sadly, but I still lurk on your forums following the game. Right now, I have a want to share this. It will be a good addition for those of us who like to build up empires and play with diplomacy.

In Age of Empires and some 4x games, making a tribute is as simple a matter as going to the diplomacy screen and gifting to, say, Ceasar, 500 gold. But this is totally at odds with the scenarios and campaigns. Example: Age of Empires has numerous campaigns featuring a tribute caravan. Capturing this caravan is often the goal of a campaign. My proposal is to bring this aspect of diplomacy into gameplay in general, rather than delegated to a special campaign object.

How this would work?

Well, tributes are basically caravans sent to a nation or army to appease them. To make this work, what I propose is this plan for a special built unit.

1. Add a new building, called caravan for now, into workers options.

The caravan unit may hold up to 4000 resources. Caravans are used to tribute, and will automatically convert to an enemy if your units cannot gaurd them. To fill up a caravan, your workers must deposit resources into it. If a caravan is destroyed, all resources contained within are left where it was felled, gathering 10x faster than resources gained through work.

Note that only the builder of the caravan may see how many resources it holds. Others must inspect it to find out its bounty.

This is all very important.

Why it holds so many resources: Tributes were sometimes grand, sometimes small. The number 3000 has been picked because it represents a significant amount of resources, as well as being the cost of a wonder in Age of Kings (1000 wood, 1000 gold, 1000 stone)

Why workers must deposit resources into the caravan for it to work: While realistic, this is not the real reason. The real reason is to prevent a player from simply waltzing up to a base and building the caravan right there. Instead, he must bring his workers and caravan next to each other, fill it up, and then when it is ripe, he shall send it out (with a gaurd of course!). This provides options for raiding caravans, gaurding caravans, working together to make sure it reaches the workers of the tributee as well as improved diplomacy.

For example, a really poor farming player, out of 12 players in a ffa, may choose to simply send a harvest of food to his tormentor every 5 minutes. Likewise, the tributee may decide to spare the farmer, on account of it being too much work. But if he needs to make an example, he will..

here is a clear cut of the process.

It is a 12 player game, the map varies from region to region. Some places are rich in ore, but poor in farming, while others are near the coast and would be great places to trade, if only anyone had anything worth trading. The two players we will look at, are The_Farmers and AngryScythians. The_Farmers has a great agricultural area and has decided to farm heavily. AngryScythians had a similar area, but instead chose to concentrate on an army of horse riders.

The_Farmers has about 40 population dedicated to an economy, with few soldiers. AngryScythians has about 40 population most of which is cavalry and cavalry archers. Should Angryscythians destroy the_farmers, he will not have helped himself at all. So he demands a tribute of food from the_farmers. The_Farmers complies. He builds a caravan near his mill, and makes his workers drop off much food at the caravan (800 food is in the caravan). Now he sends it out, accompanied by a few infantry, to AngryScythians territory, where he will abandon it to fate. AngryScythians, through this tribute, is able to continue his policy of raiding weak villagers for food and tribute, while becoming a significant military power across the known world by investing all other resources he actually gathered into producing better armor, better swords, and better bows.

Simply put, caravans offer great oppurtunities in diplomacy and gameplay, being intertwined with diplomacy, as well. They are superior to the instantaneous transfer of tribute seen in Age of Empires, because they represent a great material asset that must be worked on before it can be used. Since it can be worked on, other players can take advantage of it by intercepting it. If someone intercepted it, AngryScythian would be in trouble. The_Farmers, on the other hand, could claim someone intercepted it, and even forge it by destroying his own caravan carrying 100 food, when in fact nobody did. Thus saving himself 700 food for investment, while prompting AngryScythian to attack someone by The_Farmers suggestion. AngryScythian might also call the_farmers a noob for not gaurding it, but who cares about that

Rough Draft of Caravans, Diplomacy and Tribute in 0 A.D.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Centurion

[alpha123]

I really like this idea. I think it adds great possibilities to gameplay. The extra realism is just a bonus; for me the real draw is the gameplay.

Presumably the caravan would be capturable like animals and female citizens, yes? Also, the caravan would have to be dropped off at a civ center only, right?

I haven't looked at the code, but I think the caravan would have to be trained from a civ center or possibly a special building (but I'd rather not add a caravan building) as opposed to being built by workers. :-/ Maybe there's a way around that.

Like I said, I think this is an awesome idea.

[lilstewie]

Man, I do love the idea of a tribute system!

Edited November 23, 2012 by lilstewie

[alpha123]

yes, and caravan to Extract Far resources.

-1

You should have to build a civ center (or dock) to extract far resources, unless your civ has some ability to do otherwise, such as the Mauryans.

A caravan to extract far resources hurts gameplay IMO because it diminishes the value of territories.

[alpha123]

hahaha, think about this how much cost a Civic Centre? and IF you have not Metals? or Stone?.

Right. Like I said, there shouldn't be a way to avoid that.

Not if the other Faction build in these territory, that works in Far Neutral only Territory.

Um yeah, that's my point. To encourage expansion.

And Caravan its not a Dropsite Unit like Mauryan Elephant.

Caravan only its a huge carrier to dropsite and if its defeated, let behind a big Treasure.

I understand that.

[alpha123]

i undestand your point, but Ai ever and ever find all resources. dont need a Civ Center to drop your resources Ai send far Units in a long Neutral territory, Rush of workers. not Civ centr a Expansion required.

That would be because the AI isn't very bright.

There's nothing preventing you from doing that, however without nearby territory you'd be penalized for doing so. Caravans for temporarily holding resources would diminish the value of territories by removing that penalization, which IMO hurts gameplay.

[alpha123]

Check the Ai territory in minimap. its Neutral but too close from mine and too far from theirs.

But think slow Wagon with Gold if you, ambush that Wagon all Metal its yours

Perhaps. I'm still adverse to the idea but being able to capture a caravan full of resources that someone else has gathered is a bit appealing.

Either way, I strongly vote for the caravan for tribute.

[idanwin]

I think sending a caravan unit carrying resources as a tribute would really add something to the gameplay. It requires full cooperation of allies in order to make sure there is a safe path along which to transport these resources. Maybe also a treasure boat (or whatever you want to call it) for water maps?

[Lion.Kanzen]

I think sending a caravan unit carrying resources as a tribute would really add something to the gameplay. It requires full cooperation of allies in order to make sure there is a safe path along which to transport these resources. Maybe also a treasure boat (or whatever you want to call it) for water maps?

and enemy scouts to Assault the wagon. and have the Trasure. you play Zelda Twilight Princess, you must protect a Wagon from Barbarians Goblins, In HBO Rome series(TV) the Optimates rout with a Wagon and Caesars men intercept the wagon and steal the wagon. Edited December 6, 2012 by Lion.Kanzen