bot differences?

[raymond]

The description of the bot in the game is very short. But what are the differences between each bot? Which are stronger, which are weaker? Can anybody post a scale here?

Suggestion: to choose the strength of the AI.

[feneur]

In Alpha 10 the only really useful bot is qbot, in Alpha 11 the only useful bots are either qbot or Aegisbot. The latter is based on qbot to a great degree, and will probably replace it over time, but for now it is still experimental and can cause errors in some cases. However, it is better on some maps and in some ways, so once Alpha 11 is out feel free to try either. The rest of the bots are no longer developed (most of them weren't meant to as they only served as examples for AI programmers) and are hidden by default in Alpha 11 and unless someone picks up development of them they are likely to be removed completely for Alpha 12. You could still pick e.g. Jubot if you think qbot is too difficult, but it could have issues as it hasn't been developed for quite some time.

The ability to choose a strength will most likely come at a later time, but the AI developers would like to focus on creating a really challenging bot, it's easier to "dumb it down" than it is to create a less challenging bot and then try to make it smarter. Since the AI is getting more challenging we might have to add some settings soon though

[feneur]

Testbot never was meant to be anything but a test Jubot hasn't been developed since its developer has been too busy though.

[historic_bruno]

i miss the Jubot and Test bot they are discontinued...

...ok may be Jubot are discontinued.

Enjoy it while you can, this will probably be the last release where you get to play JuBot

[MishFTW]

What... I thought we were going with DRAGON as the name? (We had a nice discussion on IRC )

21:42 < Aviv_> Can anyone change "qBot XP" to "Kronos"?

21:42 < Geek377> Hello Aviv_

21:42 < Aviv_> hi all

21:42 < Mythos_Ruler> hi

21:43 -!- Enrique [webchat@238.42.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #0ad-dev

21:43 < Geek377> Meh... I think qBot xp shouldn't be Kronos... the name doesn't have a wow factor...

21:43 < Mythos_Ruler> What about Zeus?

21:43 <@historicbruno> "Geek377, historicbruno: The osx-source din't output a pyrogenesis in binaries/system" -- oops I missed this

21:44 <@historicbruno> Geek377, you did update-workspaces? you used make?

21:44 < Geek377> Yes.

21:44 < Geek377> Mythos_Ruler: I think we overuse Greek mythology too much.

21:44 <@historicbruno> if there's no pyrogenesis then the build must have failed

21:45 <@historicbruno> try make again and see if there's any error in the output

21:45 < Geek377> Hmmm there is pyrogenesis.exe.config

21:45 < Mythos_Ruler> Geek377: Yes, but everyone knows it.

21:45 < Mythos_Ruler> What about Xerxes?

21:46 < Mythos_Ruler> Anyone?

21:46 < Geek377> I liked the name Agamemnon... but historical figures isn't a good thing. What if the scenario has that figure in it?

21:46 * Deiz would like to name the bot "Ed"

21:46 * k776 doesn't approve of a separate player_trans_spec_helmet.xml just for helmets

21:46 < Mythos_Ruler> Agamemnon is Greek mythology.... which you don't want to use. lol

21:47 < Geek377> Like a Persian scenario involving Xerxes... player name would be Xerxes, bot name would be Xerxes. And no, I said we overuse it, not that I don't want it

21:47 < Mythos_Ruler> k776: I can just turn up the specularity of the player_trans_spec material.

21:47 <@Deiz> Or, perhaps we could use a disease with a base word derived from Greek

21:48 <@historicbruno> I also don't like proper names

21:48 <@Deiz> All hail the new AI, Pancreatitis

21:48 < Mythos_Ruler> I liked Hephaestus myself.

21:48 < Geek377> lol... only you Deiz

21:48 <@historicbruno> but I don't know enough Greek or Latin roots to think of a good name for an AI

21:48 <@k776> We seem to have an aweful lot of materials now: http://trac.wildfire...c/art/materials

21:49 <@k776> It's a shame the conditional system downgrades materials rather than just effects

21:49 <@historicbruno> a new material is the only way to change any of the parameters without affecting every model using the material

21:49 -!- Yves` [~Yves@152-40.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #0ad-dev

21:50 <@historicbruno> it wouldn't be bad IMO if actors could set those parameters and override the material

21:50 < Geek377> http://chaoticshiny.com/namegen.php <--- Random name gen

21:51 < Aviv_> How about "Mithras"

21:51 < Geek377> Hmm... anyone considered Achilles?

21:52 <@k776> I'd have combined <define /> and <conditional_define /> as well

21:52 <@k776> e.g. http://pastie.org/4652891

21:52 <@k776> (that format seems a lot cleaner to me)

21:52 <@historicbruno> Mithras would be interesting

21:52 <@k776> (thats combining player_trans_ao_spec.xml and player_trans_ao_parallax_spec.xml

21:53 <@k776> Anyway

21:53 < Enrique> Persian wonder, hanging gardens wip: http://img341.images...330/testmoi.jpg

21:53 < Enrique> and another one: http://img217.images...750/test2zw.jpg

21:53 <@Deiz> That looks pretty good.

21:53 < Geek377> Nice +1

21:53 <@historicbruno> oh hey, how about "Victor"

21:54 < erik_feneur> +1 +1

21:54 < Geek377> lol... whats the use of name that means the exact opposite

21:54 <@k776> Or "Vector". Strikes with direction and magnitude

21:54 <@k776>

21:54 < erik_feneur> (I.e. those hanging gardens looks nice and Victor might be a good name)

21:54 < erik_feneur> Vector

21:54 -!- Enrique is now known as Enrique_away

21:54 < Geek377> I think wonders should have a huge footprint... especially the hanging garden

21:54 < Aviv_> +1

21:55 <@historicbruno> Enrique_away, wow very nice!

21:55 < Aviv_> Enrique_away, excellent work

21:55 < leper> Mythos_Ruler: You told the truth

21:55 < Enrique_away> thanks guys

21:55 < Enrique_away> Geek377: it has the same footprint as the big pyramid in atlas

21:55 < leper> Enrique_away: awsome

21:55 < Geek377> Hmmm... vector works.

21:56 < Aviv_> I wonder if we can decide on a name w/o the creator of the AI

21:56 < Mythos_Ruler> Victor

21:56 < Geek377> http://en.wikipedia....logical_objects

21:56 < Geek377> How about an object? Rather than a figure or person?

21:57 <@Deiz> Keep in mind that qBot-xp will likely be merged into qBot in the future

21:57 <@Deiz> Leaving one AI

21:57 <@historicbruno> Victor could be like the name, I've known people named Victor/Viktor, or it could be like the Latin, victorious/winner

21:58 < Geek377> Helios... because no matter the outcome, the AI shines bright throughout the game

21:58 <@Deiz> Lies.

21:58 <@historicbruno> Helios is not bad

21:58 <@Deiz> The AI completely stalls at times

21:58 < Mythos_Ruler> Aegis

21:58 < leper> Deiz: Stalios ;p

21:59 < Mythos_Ruler> Aegis--Athena's shield endowed with the head of Medusa.

21:59 < Mythos_Ruler> What about Gorgon?

22:00 -!- ortalo [~ortalo@laf31-3-82-225-216-155.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: EOF from client]

22:00 < Geek377> +1 for Aegis... Gorgon is just outright insulting to the lines of JS that make up the bot

22:00 -!- Kimball [~Kimball@67-135-167-138.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Quit]

22:02 < Aviv_> Well, let me know when you guys have made up your mind

22:02 < Aviv_> I am off to sleep

22:02 < Aviv_> Good night

22:02 -!- Aviv_ [~chatzilla@93-173-164-43.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]]

22:02 <@Deiz> Testbot, JuBot, qBot... Aegis?

22:02 <@Deiz> Needs more continuity.

22:02 < erik_feneur> Aegisbot?

22:03 < Geek377> wraitii would probably just end up naming it another female star... like he did with marilyn

22:03 <@historicbruno> Oh no, not Gagabot

22:03 < Geek377> lol

22:03 < Yves`> ro-bot

22:03 < Yves`>

22:03 < Geek377> xD

22:04 <@historicbruno> DasBot

22:04 < Yves`> but only if it supports ships well

22:04 < erik_feneur> It seems like we'll end up with nobot if we can't decide on a name

22:05 <@Deiz> anonybot

22:06 < Geek377> lol.... nobot

22:06 < Geek377> Omega? because its the end for noobs?

22:07 < Yves`> maybe we should decide later since it won't be the default bot in Alpha11 anyway (right?)

22:07 <@historicbruno> nullbot ?

22:09 < Yves`> Or just rename all bots like: Demo Bot, Bot V1, Bot V2 (stable), Bot V3 (experimental)

22:09 < Yves`> This would at least make it clear

22:09 < Geek377> How about [name] (difficulty)

22:10 <@Deiz> I have the ultimate name

22:10 < Yves`> I don't like naming them by difficulty

22:10 <@Deiz> DRAGON: Dreadful Recursive Acronym; Generally Overwrought Nonsense

22:10 <@historicbruno> difficulty is a bogus concept at this point

22:11 <@Deiz> Actually, that's not recursive

22:11 < leper> Deiz: That ain't recursive

22:11 <@Deiz> It was, but I broke it

22:11 <@Deiz> DRAGON Recurses Awfully; Generally Overwrought Nonsense <- Better

22:12 < leper> DREADFUL: Dragon recursive easy acronym; does find unicorn love

22:13 < Geek377> lol... Those in favor of DRAGON? (Thats power right there pople... beats Kronos wings down)

22:13 <@historicbruno> Mythos_Ruler, pick one and edit this file lol http://trac.wildfire...ot-wc/data.json

22:13 <@Deiz> Keep in mind that the AI name field is kind of tiny

22:14 <@Deiz> So it can't be "overly long name bot"

22:15 < Yves`> About recursion: http://wiki.xkcd.com/irc/Recursion

22:15 < erik_feneur>

22:15 < Yves`> The fantastic thing about recursion is that it contains the word recoursion IN ITSELF!

22:15 <@Deiz> It should be rBot

22:15 <@Deiz> (It comes after q)

22:16 <@historicbruno> FooBot

22:16 <@k776> Does anyone else think this would help or hinder? http://www.wildfireg...180#entry249852

22:17 < Mythos_Ruler> done

22:17 <@Deiz> Bahhhhh.

22:17 <@historicbruno> k776, I'd rather drop the concept of numeric quality

22:18 < leper> Mythos Bot

22:18 < leper> so everybody can beat Mythos

22:18 <@k776> historicbruno: Ok, in favour of?

22:18 < Mythos_Ruler> gtg guys

22:18 < Mythos_Ruler> l8r

22:19 -!- Mythos_Ruler [webchat@c-67-165-135-108.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed]

22:19 < Yves`> My opinion is that the name should make it easier for players to find out which bot to choose

22:19 <@Deiz> He changes it and then leaves!

22:19 <@Deiz> I vote we change it to something else

22:19 <@historicbruno> I like Aegis

22:19 <@Deiz> We should develop some sort of design-by-committee compromise

22:19 <@Deiz> Let's take some letters from everybody's suggestions and make an anagram

22:19 <@Deiz> And use that.

22:20 < leper> what about wfgbot?

22:20 < Yves`> Aegis Bot is fine for me but we should keep the "(experimental)" for the moment

22:20 < Geek377> no... wfgbot is for IRC

22:21 <@k776> Hmm Killbot, Pwnbot, Shredbot, VectorBot

22:21 < Geek377> Achilles... strong but the heel is the pathfinder?

22:21 < Yves`> I've never managed to play a whole game without error messages

22:21 < leper> but we could tell players that look for multiplayer opponents that wfgbot will play against them in singleplayer ;p

22:21 < Geek377> And the bot's defensive counterpart could be Ajax

22:21 < erik_feneur> Yves`: Not sure how a name can ever do that fully, at least not unless we include something like (hard) or (defensive) or (rusher) etc, which might be equally bad for people who don't know the terms. I'd say use the description to explain more than say (experimental) or (outdated).

22:21 <@Deiz> We could also make an all-encompassing name

22:21 <@Deiz> OmniBot

Either way, I'm excited to try out Aegis

[wraitii]

Iirc the plan is to have only Aegis if possible for Alpha 12, with the new shared API.

However with school restarting for me, and other issues I've had progress is mostly stalled for two weeks, and after that it'll still be fairly slow.