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Undercosted Toxotes


Rugos
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Hey guys!

Anyway, I was playing, and mid game I build a fortress on the plateau with all the metal. (I forget wich map. It had pyramids.) Suffice to say, I won REALLY easily after that.

I'm under the impression that you should add a wood cost to the toxotes, as metal alone makes them to easy to mass produce. Ideas? Suggestions? Stupidity?

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Was he playing as cartharage? if so, then yes the idea is for them to be mercenaries

The Toxote ("Toxotes Kretikos") is a Greek unit, but also a mercenary, yeah. I haven't balanced out costs and stats for Carthaginian units yet.

I think mercenaries should be cheap but cost per/minute and train ridiculously fast..

That was my first preference as well, but we don't have the capability yet to make units continuously cost resources, so for now their cost is fixed.

My preferences for mercenaries:

- Train fast, but also have lower Health.

- Low up-front cost (say, 10 Metal per soldier).

- Continuous cost as long as they are alive. Say, -5 Food and -10 Metal for every 10 seconds they live.

- They don't gather, at all, but they can construct buildings.

But like I said, we don't have the capability to really do the continuous cost thing, so they have to have a fixed cost for now. And not to mention this would all be feature creep, which we try to avoid. :)

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The Toxote ("Toxotes Kretikos") is a Greek unit, but also a mercenary, yeah. I haven't balanced out costs and stats for Carthaginian units yet.

That was my first preference as well, but we don't have the capability yet to make units continuously cost resources, so for now their cost is fixed.

My preferences for mercenaries:

- Train fast, but also have lower Health.

- Low up-front cost (say, 10 Metal per soldier).

- Continuous cost as long as they are alive. Say, -5 Food and -10 Metal for every 10 seconds they live.

- They don't gather, at all, but they can construct buildings.

But like I said, we don't have the capability to really do the continuous cost thing, so they have to have a fixed cost for now. And not to mention this would all be feature creep, which we try to avoid. :)

^^ Good for rushing in the beginning. Get your troops to build a barracks- and just spam these archers and hit the enemy... Too easy of a game?

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^^ Good for rushing in the beginning. Get your troops to build a barracks- and just spam these archers and hit the enemy... Too easy of a game?

Perhaps, but archers cannot take down buildings, which is the main aim of any direct attack (destroy the buildings so the enemy cannot train any troops=you win). It would be a good raiding strategy though. Depends on how weak in Health we'd make them. If they die from one sword swipe, then they could balance out nicely. Another way to balance mercs would be to prevent them from gaining Loot from killed enemies. Just throwing ideas out there. Any way you look at it, I'd like to make mercenaries unique in some way other than just making them cost a fixed amount of Metal at time of training.

In ancient times mercenaries were used as cannon fodder, because they cost too much to employ over the long term. I would like to somehow emphasize this a little bit. Mercenaries also tended to double cross you when the battle went ill or when they found out that you didn't have the cash on hand to pay them. It would be interesting, if we were to make mercs have a recurring cost, to make mercs convert to Gaia if you run out of money to pay them. There are a million different ways we could make mercs unique. As long as we pick the features that are consistent and understandable, then they could work. :)

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Perhaps, but archers cannot take down buildings, which is the main aim of any direct attack (destroy the buildings so the enemy cannot train any troops=you win). It would be a good raiding strategy though. Depends on how weak in Health we'd make them. If they die from one sword swipe, then they could balance out nicely. Another way to balance mercs would be to prevent them from gaining Loot from killed enemies. Just throwing ideas out there. Any way you look at it, I'd like to make mercenaries unique in some way other than just making them cost a fixed amount of Metal at time of training.

Good point- but if you supplied the people with troops, such as in - The Massacre at Delphi, you could easily destroy the opponent... It would be nice if instead of "Training Mercenaries- something like the AoE "Home City" Sending mercenaries would be nice- but then the whole Carthaginian army would be there.

In ancient times mercenaries were used as cannon fodder, because they cost too much to employ over the long term. I would like to somehow emphasize this a little bit. Mercenaries also tended to double cross you when the battle went ill or when they found out that you didn't have the cash on hand to pay them. It would be interesting, if we were to make mercs have a recurring cost, to make mercs convert to Gaia if you run out of money to pay them. There are a million different ways we could make mercs unique. As long as we pick the features that are consistent and understandable, then they could work. :)

It's like the Carthagnians in the Punic Wars ^^

The Mercenary wars, where Rome supposedly "Helped" Carthage, but ended up taking Sardinia

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Good point- but if you supplied the people with troops, such as in - The Massacre at Delphi, you could easily destroy the opponent... It would be nice if instead of "Training Mercenaries- something like the AoE "Home City" Sending mercenaries would be nice- but then the whole Carthaginian army would be there.

In a Massacre of Delphi situation where you start the match with mercs, we could either give them modded versions that don't have a recurring cost, or fix the starting mercs with triggers that prevent their recurring cost from occurring until later. :) Or... just give them non-merc starting units. :)

It's like the Carthagnians in the Punic Wars ^^

The Mercenary wars, where Rome supposedly "Helped" Carthage, but ended up taking Sardinia

Exactly. And I think such a feature would prevent the player from training mercs until later in the game when their economy is up and sustainable. If you trained merc units early on, you would risk them converting to gaia because your economy is not healthy enough yet. Also, I think the units available to Civ Centre should be non-merc units (local units that have a more noble reason to join your cause). Merc units would be relegated to the Barracks, which won't be available until Town Phase.

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