Bugs

[satchitb]

Hi. I'm new here, but since I don't code, I thought I'd point out a few bugs. They might sound obvious, but I couldn't find them mentioned after searching the forums.

System: Ubuntu 10.10

0AD Version: Alpha 4

1a. Animals, when hunted, sometimes bleed, but never turn into a carcass. They just become immobile.

b. Animals walk around, but don't fight back, which is ok in the case of gazelle, but not for elephants.

c. Gazelle flee, but not chickens or elephants.

d. Peltastes thrakaikos (thrakaikossa?) can't hunt chickens. They take about three spears to kill a chicken, and have to get into minimum range. Hand-to-hand units have no problems in killing chickens and thrakaikossa can kill gazelle without problems.

e. Some animals have movement animations (like fleeing gazelle), but for the most part, they just glide. This is especially true of elephants.

2a. I could find very few default shortcuts. I found some basic commands like Del, Q, E, G, etc, but on a whole, it requires too much mouse movement.

b. There no shortcuts in the menus. Simple things like Esc and Enter would go a long way towards making the game more playable.

c. There ought to be a button to quit to desktop right from the post-game screen, instead of going through two or three more screens.

3a. I understand that the unit AI is very limited. For example, the AI will attack the closest unit no matter what. Cavalry will not attack ranged units just a few steps away because they're focused on fighting hoplites. I was able to counter an offensive of 20 units with just 5, as the enemy got preoccupied attacking my Agora.

b. Your units have a supernatural ability to search for resources. I assigned some units to farming, and once the farms were exhausted, they moved to the other piece of farmland that I had discovered: in the enemy base, on the other side of the map. Please fix; else your units will get massacred.

c. Marching units will not attack even if attacked.

4. Cavalry units like hippeus don't move much faster than hoplites, when, being on horseback, they ought to.

5. Hellenes is the only available civilisation, except on specific maps where you are specifically assigned a different civ (Celts is the only alt civ you can use).

I really like this game, so expect more feedback

Edited March 17, 2011 by satchitb

[satchitb]

6a. It is possible to build buildings that are partly submerged. I built an Agora that was neck deep in water. Units spawned on the dry land by the coast.

b. While it's not possible to complete buildings that are wholly submerged (builders give it two whacks with a hammer and then give up), you can still lay the foundation, which costs resources.

c. When you have insufficient resources to build a certain building, you get notified only after placing the building. IMO, it should be as soon as you click on the button, or maybe those buildings you cannot build ought to be greyed out.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Alright, I can probably clear up a couple things. First off, the reason that the animals don't decay right now is because the animations have not been created for them. That goes for a lot of those sliding units. The reason for that is because the team has no animator unfortunately. The reason that elephants don't flee is this reason. They attack instead. (or at least they should.) If you don't see them attack, then it is probably because there is no animation for it. The chickens don't move mainly because they are supposed to be stupider than a gazelle I think. As for the AI, it comes down to this. The AI is currently very limited. Nevertheless, Alpha 5 should include some more intellect for the AI and should have some more cool stuff like formations, running/charging, unit promotions, and more. The reason that cavalry are about as fast as hoplites is this reason. The cavalry currently can only walk. Once Alpha 5 is released though, it should be fixed so that they can gallop at a very fast speed when ordered to. Infantry will be able to run also. The reason for marching units not attacking is because they are too disciplined to bother about that. If you had them attack everything that attacked them while they were marching, it would be tough to get them to their destination. Please note that I am not part of the team so please don't hold me liable for any accidental mistakes I made while explaining some of the bugs and holes that have yet to be patched up before the game is released. Thanks for the feedback by the way.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Thorfinn the Shallow Minded

[Mythos_Ruler]

satchitb:

Use WASD for camera movement. You will thank me.

[feneur]

When you have insufficient resources to build a certain building, you get notified only after placing the building. IMO, it should be as soon as you click on the button, or maybe those buildings you cannot build ought to be greyed out.

That would not be accurate if you got more resources while moving the mouse to a place where you wanted to build etc, so I think there are more reasons to do things the way we currently do than to change it. You can also see how much a building will cost when hovering over the icon, so there's no need to click on the button just to see if you have enough. Greying out stuff should imho be for things you cannot yet do, due to having to research a technology or similar long term issues, not having enough resources is much more temporary.

d. Peltastes thrakaikos (thrakaikossa?) can't hunt chickens. They take about three spears to kill a chicken, and have to get into minimum range. Hand-to-hand units have no problems in killing chickens and thrakaikossa can kill gazelle without problems.

They can hunt chicken, so I guess your point is more "I want all units to hunt chicken in the same way"? There's of course some value in that opinion, but I think it's a good thing that they hunt animals a bit differently. That way there's room for some strategy/micromanagement, but without being something that really puts you at a huge disadvantage if you don't do things in the most optimal way.

5. Hellenes is the only available civilisation, except on specific maps where you are specifically assigned a different civ (Celts is the only alt civ you can use).

In Alpha 4 Hellenes and Celts are the only civilizations included, and all maps are scenarios, in scenarios you'll most likely never be able to change from one civilization to another as the look/story/etc of the scenario might be dependent on the civilization. After random maps are implemented you'll be able to change civilization before starting a game however.

c. There ought to be a button to quit to desktop right from the post-game screen, instead of going through two or three more screens.

If you just want to quit directly you can use Alt+F4

For many of the others: A lot of these are things we are aware of, but in some cases we have not been able to do anything about them at the moment (due to not having an animator for example) or we have prioritized other things. All-in-all it's good to get people's opinion, and to know what things are noticed, and some times it's things we haven't noticed/thought about, so don't hesitate posting them. Thanks, and welcome to the forums.

Nevertheless, Alpha 5 should include some more intellect for the AI and should have some more cool stuff like formations, running/charging, unit promotions, and more. The reason that cavalry are about as fast as hoplites is this reason.

The only things which are guaranteed to come in Alpha 5 are the Iberian faction and hopefully some better AI (as well as decals since those are already implemented), one or more of the other things may come, but none of them are guaranteed. Just something to be aware of so no one gets disappointed if their favourite feature isn't implemented in the next release

[satchitb]

Thanks for the replies. I have more to report!

7a. Gaia elements like trees have health bars displayed upon mousover. IMO, they should only show their health on click, else a player is liable to be confused with the multitude of health bars popping up.

b. Gaia indicators on the minimap are of the same thickness and opacity as unit indicators, which even in 1P game make things confusing. When more players of different colours enter the game, it will become still more confusing deciphering what is an enemy/ally and what is gaia. Plus, it makes the minimap more cluttered.

8a. When you fully zoom in, then move to an area at a greater height, and back, the camera doesn't zoom in again. In other words, it doesn't "stick" to the ground, and shows a zoomed out view of the first area.

b. UDLR doesn't adapt to a changed camera angle. This makes controls very confusing when you prefer a different angle. Also, it may be possible to adapt to different control when the map is rotated to standard angles like 90, 180, etc, but not when rotated to intermediary angles. I'd like UDLR to function independent of the angle to which the map is turned, because that is the most intuitive.

9a. There isn't any movement indicator, like the red X in AoE, so you don't really know where you've clicked. It would be helpful.

b. It's impossible to have units move in a field without their beginning to farm. The only way to get them "through" a field is to click on the other side, which may not have been scouted.

c. The attack cursor appears for a huge radius around an enemy unit. Not only does this make attacking a particular unit that much more difficult, but it also means inadvertently attacking when you don't want to.

10a. Why are there "alt" versions of each unit? For example, there are Hellenstic hoplites with different styles of helmets. Clicking on them reveals that one set has a yellow diamond next to their picture, and the other set a white diamond. I like the variety, but if you double click on a hoplite, only the surrounding hoplite of the same version are selected, when all should be selected.

b. Unit stats are not displayed when you click on a unit.

11a. Loading units on to a ship can be performed from a huge range. I had a ship that was more than ten squares from the coast, and I was able to get a unit on to it. I was also able to get a unit to board a ship from the top of a mountain. That shouldn't be possible.

b. Unloading a ship can be performed anywhere. I had a unit offloaded in the middle of the sea (IIRC, there is only one gradient for water?), where it was able to move freely on the sea bed.

12a. When units are crowded around a building, it naturally has problems spawning further units. However, when it encounters this problem, rather than pausing production, it cancels all further production. Further, an ugly code-filled notification pops up in yellow in the upper left corner of the screen.

b. When multiple ships are selected, they have trouble moving. When a ship is blocked by terrain or by other ships, ALL the ships in the group stop. This means that you have to chart a circuitous and laborious route for the ships, all the while keeping a close eye on them.

13. The LoS of hippeus and trieres is way, way too much. You can see things on the opposite side of a mountain.

14. Gates don't function.

15. Meat doesn't rot. You can leave a carcass around for the whole game, and it won't drop in value.

16. No gather points implemented yet.

17. No animations for fish or for fishing, in the form of nets or anything.

18. No animation for oars.

^sorry for the last two. I know you are currently sans animator, but I just thought I'd point these out.

Edited March 18, 2011 by satchitb

[feneur]

UDLR

I might be missing something obvious here, but what does UDLR mean?

10a. Why are there "alt" versions of each unit? For example, there are Hellenstic hoplites with different styles of helmets. Clicking on them reveals that one set has a yellow diamond next to their picture, and the other set a white diamond. I like the variety, but if you double click on a hoplite, only the surrounding hoplite of the same version are selected, when all should be selected.

b. Unit stats are not displayed when you click on a unit.

a. Though there are also variations of each unit type (as in variations in how they look to avoid making the game monotonous) the alternative versions you describe are because citizen soldiers will later have the ability to "level up" as they get more experience fighting, going from the basic units which are ok fighters and good workers to elite units which are good fighters, but less adept at working.b. They are displayed in overlays, hitpoints when you hover your mouse over the health bar, attack stats when you hover over the sword-and-shield icon etc.

16. No gather points implemented yet.

Unless I misunderstand what you mean by gather points they are already implemented. Just right-click with one or more buildings selected and units created/ungarrisoned from that building will move to where the flag is set. (It isn't mentioned in the documentation though, just added it to the hotkeys page.)

[k776]

I might be missing something obvious here, but what does UDLR mean?

I believe thats Up Down Left Right (the keyboard arrow keys)

[satchitb]

Indeed, UDLR is Up, Down, Left, Right.

Any fixes for loading/unloading bugs possible?

[feneur]

Indeed, UDLR is Up, Down, Left, Right.

Any fixes for loading/unloading bugs possible?

The ship garrisoning shouldn't really be seen as implemented yet, currently they're just using the same system as the buildings. Eventually there should be a system where the unit/units and the boat/boats go to the place that's closest to them both and there the units are unloaded. And similarly with the unloading, you should be able to click on a place on the shore and the ship should go as close to that point as possible and then unload the units (as long as it can get close enough). It may be a while though as focus is on other things, we mainly just gave them the garrisoning system of the buildings so you can play on island maps.