Stances

[FeXoR]

please, remember to let the player set the default stance for new units at the options menu, it's very useful.

Yes! Really good point

I forgot to mention this one.

[k776]

I don't know if we want to make things too configurable... We'll probably just have 3 stances as default, Aggressive, Defensive (default for soldiers), and Stand Ground, with a hidden (unselectable) stance for women (Flee when attacked unless tasked to fight back).

[historic_bruno]

That way ranged units will rip your units away without much danger to themselves.

That's certainly something to take into account, either by having your own ranged units to respond or just turning the melee units loose, or have them retreat further. The exact tactic will always be up to the player, stances don't change that, they only enhance it (with a good implementation)

Same in my case. I don't have any problem with stances to be implemented as far as they don't disturb my style of play. But 'as is' they mainly reduce my influence on the units (mainly because of the missing priority system and the stances implemented 'prematurely').

I was mostly responding to your claim that stances aren't necessary, which is just wrong IMO. What we have is broken, that's why I bumped this thread and I'm working on a patch to fix it Being an alpha means lots of stuff is broken or incomplete but we don't just abandon it.

I'm not entirely sure I get you right. Are you agreeing that stances shouldn't interact with player given commands? If so I'm fine because it doesn't interacts with my style of play

I stated my own feeling above: "I personally would rather aim for consistency, all player orders are forced and can't be interrupted by attacks, unless the stance allows it (violent)." It seems rather that the response will depend on the type of order: attack and move will never be interrupted, but more passive orders like gathering and repair can be interrupted (but only after the unit reaches the build/gather target).

[FeXoR]

Well, lets see how it works out when order priority is in place and maybe stances are redone as well. I think I made my points clear and perhaps it needs some playtesting for further investigation after those are in.

[historic_bruno]

BTW, I committed some changes for Alpha 10, they should make a noticable difference. Next will be making stances more modular and decreasing the available choices per Mythos' suggestions.

[picobyte]

My patch at ticket #1492 enables several hotkeys including changing stances. It's currently implemented as follows

select your unit: Idle hotkey . , or mouse (one of my patches actually allows shift . or , to select all your idle villagers/warriors on screen)

Now make a selection for an action, in this example we choose the last one, to modify the stance:

H => Garrison

J => Build

K => Train (not applicable for units)

L => Ungarrison(not applicable for units)

; => Formation

' => Stance

Then choose the stance with the same keys:

H => "violent"

J => "aggressive"

K => "passive"

L => "defensive"

; => "standground"

You can switch between stances for the selected units before doing something else.

Forward slash unsets the first choice, so we can do something else

A similar scheme applies to Garrisoning, Building, Training, Ungarrisoning and Formations

H to backslash for choices 0 to 6, capital H to double quotation for choices 7 to 12.

so e.g. to set stance and formation:

select unit

' H / ; L

And now your stance is violent and you have the fourth formation (not sure, box? - only if it was actually possible ;-)

The patches apply a lot more features for the input, but that's off topic here. If you're willing to try I'm interested if you can find any bugs or unexpected behavior.

[natholas]

I have an idea.. What if certain units were limited in stances because of the type of unit they are? like weaker cheaper units cant be set to stand ground because they are too scared? or historically more violent units cant be set to run away..

In my opinion i hardly ever use the stances in 0ad mainly because they are just confusing.. limiting them to 3 will help but i think also just letting only some units have stand ground.. and only some units have aggressive would be helpful and make it easier at the same time for newer players. (i find qbot challenging sometimes )

[Mythos_Ruler]

I have an idea.. What if certain units were limited in stances because of the type of unit they are? like weaker cheaper units cant be set to stand ground because they are too scared? or historically more violent units cant be set to run away..

In my opinion i hardly ever use the stances in 0ad mainly because they are just confusing.. limiting them to 3 will help but i think also just letting only some units have stand ground.. and only some units have aggressive would be helpful and make it easier at the same time for newer players. (i find qbot challenging sometimes )

Some barbarian units can have a custom stance, I'd call "Impetuous." Basically, they attack anything that comes into range without orders and don't run away. Thracians, for instance, are well known for this. This would balance their uber stats a bit, as they are hard to control (they tend to have a mind of their own).

[natholas]

Ye I like that idea.. but what about the other way around? making cheaper units flee when they are attacked even if the player tells them to attack?

[Pedro Falcão]

I think it is easier to make new players understand the uses for each stance than to not let veteran players use them for their strategies, since the focus of the game IS to weave new strategies (and the why it is called "Real Time Strategy") and execute them with perfection, instead of just sending a unit X against a unit Y and pray it is enough.

[Lion.Kanzen]

i wanna suggest some stances or Behavior., for Example a kind of "Avoid" for a class kind of units, Siege Engines Avoid some Class , like Cavalry. Cavalry "Avoid" Spearman Class, Spearman Class "Avoid" Swordmen Class...etc.

and the Counterpart. Attack Stance, Siege "attack Buildings", Cavalry "Attack" siege by default in that Stance. now, if we can mix two stances "attack" and Avoid.

Attack bonus Class and Avoid "Countered by" class.

that Stance, are two in one. let a Unit know what player wants to do for Defaults, a Example is i want a Cavalry to Destroy Archers, Siege Engines, but never i want in mostly of cases a engagement to Spearman, unless I want to sacrifice for a greater purpose.

In EE2 Units have the possibility to Attack a Favorite unit.

Other Proposal is do the units know what are the Class of units that we want to attack by default, for example this work incredibly with Attack Move, i send my Cavalry to Attack Female Civilian, and no to attacks other, Even Avoid a kind or class units. that is for a fast Rush to decreases the Enemy Economic Productivity.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen