Civ:Tamils (Early Cholas,Pandyas,Cheras)/Civ: Malays BC/Civ:Javanese BC

[Lopess]

This topic is dedicated to sharing, analyzing, and discussing historical sources.

[Duileoga]

Buenos días o tardes;

-Me está resultando difícil encontrar información al respecto ,sobre los malayos por ejemplo,encontré algunos reinos a.C/BC como;

1. Kedah tua
2. Kandis
3. Chi-Tu
4. Kelantan
5. Pahang Tua
6. Perak
7. Tambralinga
8. Langasuka
9. Gangga Negara

-Hay mucho texto con varias descripciones pero pocas reconstrucciones o ninguna.

-Del reino de Kedah Tua y de ciudades del valles de Lembah Bujang, como Sungai Batu encontré;

 

Aquí una ampliación del asentamiento del escaparate ;

-Otra reconstrucción de Sungai Batu , que se ve en el sitio arqueológico es :

-Aquí un posible templo reconstruido , pero la datación de la fecha aún sigue en debate y estudio;

 

-Si alguien conoce o tiene referencias sería de gran ayuda.

 

 

Disculpen las molestias*

[Duileoga]

Buenos días o tardes;

-Me está resultando difícil encontrar información al respecto ,sobre los javaneses tengo muy poco también ;

Esta reconstrucción de una aldea de pescadores en una exposición;

Y esta reconstrucción 3d de un supuesto santuario;

-Hay varias descripciones de que en la isla hubo un reino fuerte ,Yawadwipa y restos de alguna cultura como Buni .

 

 

-Si alguien conoce o tiene referencias sería de gran ayuda.

 

 

Disculpen las molestias*

[Duileoga]

On 01/01/2022 at 7:59 AM, DIYARAKUZA said:

Greetings! I'm from Sri Lanka. I speak Sinhalese and a little Tamil. I'm happy to help you if you plan on developing this civ in the future and I think adding the Tamils is a great idea because they were the biggest power in Southern India. However they don't achieve the height of their power until until the medieval age (900 AD - 1300 AD). The same could be said about the Sinhalese. In my opinion both these civs would be more fitting in a millennium AD mod. But still they both did exist in the 500 BC - 500 AD time frame and had a good level of sophistication.

Buenos día o tardes @DIYARAKUZA;

-¿Tendrían usted referencias sobre los Tamiles del período 500-1 B.C (Tamilakam,EarlyCholas/Pandyas/Cheras, Periodo Sangam...) o cualquier cosa relacionada?solo encuentro textos, nada de referencias gráficas... encontré algunos reyes como;

1. Nedunjeliyan I (Pandya)
2. Karikala Chola (Chola)
3. Ellalan (Tamil of Sri lanka)

 

Disculpe las molestias*

 

[DIYARAKUZA]

1 hour ago, Duileoga said:

-¿Tendrían usted referencias sobre los Tamiles del período 500-1 B.C (Tamilakam,EarlyCholas/Pandyas/Cheras, Periodo Sangam...) o cualquier cosa relacionada?

I'm very familiar with Ellalan as he was a Chola prince who conquered Sri Lanka around 200 B.C. There are historical sources such as the Mahavamsa you can refer but like you said, it's difficult to find graphical representations. I'll look into it and see what I can find 

[Duileoga]

11 hours ago, DIYARAKUZA said:

I'm very familiar with Ellalan as he was a Chola prince who conquered Sri Lanka around 200 B.C. There are historical sources such as the Mahavamsa you can refer but like you said, it's difficult to find graphical representations. I'll look into it and see what I can find 

-Buenas ,estuve haciendo la facción de Anuradhapura y vi que hubo varias invasiones tamiles y varios Reyes cholas y Pandyas reinaron sobre la isla de Sri lanka;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anuradhapura_kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Dravidians

-Sena and Guththika (237-215 a.C) (Chola)
-Elara (205–161 BC) (Chola)
-Five Dravidian chiefs ( 103-89 a.C)
 Pulahatta, Bahiya, Panya Mara, Pilaya Mara  y Dathika (Pandyas)

(Total:8 reyes para la ia)

 

-Aquí el Príncipe cingalés Dutugamunu venciendo a Elara en la batalla de Anuradhapura (Autor:Prasanna Weerakkody)

 

-Pero creo que estaría mejor además de incluir la innegable influencia histórico-cultura tamil en Sri Lanka , centrarse en el lugar de origen , en los Estados indios de ;

1. Tamil Nadu
2. Kerala
3. Karnataka
4. Andhra Pradesh
5. Telangana

 

-¿Ustedes que opinan?

 

 

 

Disculpe las molestias*

[DIYARAKUZA]

8 hours ago, Duileoga said:

-Pero creo que estaría mejor además de incluir la innegable influencia histórico-cultura tamil en Sri Lanka , centrarse en el lugar de origen , en los Estados indios de ;

1. Tamil Nadu
2. Kerala
3. Karnataka
4. Andhra Pradesh
5. Telangana

 

-¿Ustedes que opinan?

The main difficulty with that is the absence or obscurity of surviving archaeological material and records from southern Indian states during the 0AD time frame. There is of course the Tamil Sangam literature but aside from historical evidence for the existence of the following two kings, much of the work is considered mythical.

22 hours ago, Duileoga said:

• Nedunjeliyan I (Pandya)
• Karikala Chola (Chola)

There are some inscriptions and caves that are within the 0AD time frame but I'm not aware of anything that will be useful in putting together these factions, which means I need to look further. I'll try to get in touch with someone who can help me with this.

For now the best references I have are the Mahavamsa and the Dipavamsa (Older than Mahavamsa) which are both from Sri Lanka. But I think there may be more obscure sources from southern India that can satisfy us, and since I'm perfectly located for this task I won't stop searching. I'll get back to you as soon as I find something 

Edited April 3 by DIYARAKUZA

[Duileoga]

On 03/04/2025 at 5:05 PM, DIYARAKUZA said:

The main difficulty with that is the absence or obscurity of surviving archaeological material and records from southern Indian states during the 0AD time frame. There is of course the Tamil Sangam literature but aside from historical evidence for the existence of the following two kings, much of the work is considered mythical.

There are some inscriptions and caves that are within the 0AD time frame but I'm not aware of anything that will be useful in putting together these factions, which means I need to look further. I'll try to get in touch with someone who can help me with this.

For now the best references I have are the Mahavamsa and the Dipavamsa (Older than Mahavamsa) which are both from Sri Lanka. But I think there may be more obscure sources from southern India that can satisfy us, and since I'm perfectly located for this task I won't stop searching. I'll get back to you as soon as I find something 

Buenos días o tardes;

-¿Qué tal le va la investigación sobre los Tamiles?

 

Disculpen las molestias*

[Duileoga]

Buenos días o tardes;

-Me está resultando difícil encontrar referencias confiables sobre los tamiles del periodo 500-1 a.C, lo poco que encuentro (en documentales, museos y revistas)no dejan claro si son Cholas,Cheras o Pandyas o de que ciudad o en que fecha está se orientan más o menos, solo dicen que son del Periodo Sangam , pero eso es del 300a.C-300 d.C , si alguien tiene referencias o sabe Tamil,Telugu o Hindi sería de gran ayuda.

Las referencias;

(En esta referencia se ven algunas deidades...)

(En esta referencias ,directamente está el dios Murugan...)

 

 

Disculpen las molestias*

Edited April 17 by Duileoga

[Duileoga]

-Para las unidades Tamiles tampoco encontré nada realmente sólido, con un respaldo arqueológico o histórico , solo literario y artístico, en poemas tamiles de la Era Sangam,como el Silappadikaram, Purananuru, Akananuru y otros...como se ven en las anteriores referencias.Aquí solo referencias de videojuegos y una revista.

 

 

Disculpen las molestias*

[DIYARAKUZA]

On 13/04/2025 at 11:52 PM, Duileoga said:

¿Qué tal le va la investigación sobre los Tamiles?

Good day to you. Unfortunately I'm struggling to find any solid archaeological or literary evidence that can help us. There are only speculations of what it could have been like. The earliest surviving archaeological ruins are from the Vijayanagara Empire in India. But earlier Chola architecture can be found among ruins dating to the Polonnaruwa kingdom in Sri lanka, which is still around 1000-1200 AD.

On 17/04/2025 at 7:33 PM, Duileoga said:

Las referencias;

From what is generally accepted to be what life could have been like for Tamil people before 500 B.C. these pictures are the most agreeable.

On 17/04/2025 at 7:33 PM, Duileoga said:

 

And these.

The Tamils were also influenced by the Maurya Empire and that could have shaped the development of their architecture.

the temple seen here is thought to be the oldest of the group, dating to the Chola occupation (roughly 993 - 1070 CE). As the shift of the Kingdom's capital from Anuradhapura to Polonnaruwa was at least partly a consequence of the Chola incursions, the Shiva Devalaya is thought to be the oldest surviving monument in the city, predating any Buddhist structures that proliferated after the Cholas were expelled from Ceylon. Somewhat surprisingly, it remains in excellent condition and is the best preserved of the city's Hindu shrines.

https://www.orientalarchitecture.com/sid/1882/sri-lanka/polonnaruwa/shiva-devalaya-no-2

These are already showing a distinctive Dravidian architecture style. There are some very old temples in India (like the following one) that are said to date to much earlier than this, except that they have been rebuilt and renovated at more recent periods so it's likely impossible to know what they originally looked like.

Evidences prove the origin of the temple in 1^st century CE during the Sangam period (3^rd Century BCE – 45^th Century CE). However, as it stands today, the temple represents an accretion of building activity over centuries, the architectural idioms coming from the several royal dynasties who were captivated by and adored the Temple. Some of these were the early Cholas (1^st Century CE) ruling from Uraiyoor situated to the south of Srirangam across the river, later Cholas (13^th Century CE) of Pazhaiyaarai and Thanjavur, the Kongu rulers from Tamil west, the Pandyas from south (6^th – 10^th Centuries CE and 13^th – 14^th Centuries CE), the Hoysalas (10^th – 14^th Centuries CE), and the later rulers and viceroys of the celebrated Vijayanagara Empire of Karnataka (16^th Century CE). The expansion schemes included addition of functional structures and pavilions of grand temple protocol (like the Mallikarjuna Mandapam) and its growth is a pointer to an antiquity since the time this unique centre of religious devotion had been known to and extolled by a diversity of religious and linguistic groups across the nation periodically surging towards this centre of pilgrimage par excellence.

https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/5894/

Nevertheless I will keep looking, at least to find an accurate written record that will be helpful to envision how to design this civilization.

Edited 11 hours ago by DIYARAKUZA