Economy Qs & Thoughts

[Toolin]

I was wondering if there is any documentation on the specifcs of the games economy thus far, gather rates civ bonuses and anything interesting like that. Also, assuming the economic rules are still up for debate i have a couple suggestions.

I found it interesting vills are simply incapable of gathering outside of the mill and town centre aura. I have two thoughts on this;

First I suggest that they be allowed to gather outside of the aura, however they have to bring the resource to within the aura in order for it to be counted. And while carrying said resource their movement speed should be reduced by a %.

Second, outside the buildings aura a vills gathering efficiency should be reduced and proper indicators of such ineffectiveness produced.

Both ideas still encourage proper placement of mills and towncenters without forcing absolute micro management of the buildings. For example "Oops, my mill aura just missed that stone node, do i build another or let my vills work slightly less effectively?". Here the player isnt forced to build another mill, but presented a choice on whether is it worth it to build another mill or not.

Still on the subject of resources, I was disappointed to see vills yet again smacking away at trees and rock formations until they are depleted. It is a time tested method to be sure, but there has to be a more interesting approach. I would suggest allowing areas of fallen forest to grow back over time. In later stages of development provide technologies or quarry buildings to further exploit exhausted mining nodes.

Another idea on the subject would be to allow resources to not be limited by amount contained by the node, but by the amount of villagers that can work them. This would place emphasis on capturing new land and defending current areas to increase ones economy. Harvesting efficiency could also drop off when more vills are assigned to a single node.

I think the key to structuring a good economy is providing a variety of interesting choices that arnt overly complicated, but encourage strategic thinking. Which is the motivation behind these suggestions

[Mythos_Ruler]

The reason we use gathering auras in the first place (ex: Mills, Farmsteads, and Civic Centres) is to cut down on pathfinding. We'd much rather use those CPU cycles for other things. Maybe someone else will have thoughts on your other ideas.

[Toolin]

The reason we use gathering auras in the first place (ex: Mills, Farmsteads, and Civic Centres) is to cut down on pathfinding. We'd much rather use those CPU cycles for other things. Maybe someone else will have thoughts on your other ideas.

Yeah that makes alot of sense, and i love the stationary gathering concept. A few years ago when i thought it might be cool to make my own RTS(a guy can dream), i figured thad be a great way of doing things. But i always thought that it would be good to have a backup if vills strayed to far when the player isnt able to pay attention to them. So i think my second suggestion on the subject still has value. They continue on to other nodes outside of the aura, but at a reduced rate, maybe it increases in reduction the farther you go. I realise the dev team probably has better things to work on, but i just had to throw it out there

[Mythos_Ruler]

How about the vills can gather anywhere on the map, but at 20% speed. Within a gathering aura it's 100% speed. Just throwing ideas out there.

Edited July 18, 2009 by Mythos_Ruler

[MrChocolateBear]

How about the vills can gather anywhere on the map, but at 20% speed. Within a gathering aura it's 100% speed. Just throwing ideas out there.

20% is a little rough, don't you think? I think 50-75% would be more reasonable (66.66% would be 1/3 decrease, for reference) . I like the underlying idea though.

[Mythos_Ruler]

20% is a little rough, don't you think? I think 50-75% would be more reasonable (66.66% would be 1/3 decrease, for reference) . I like the underlying idea though.

I think the point is you want to build Mills for the gathering aura boost. You'd only ever not build a Mill for this boost if you didn't have enough resources for it. If the benefit is only 25%, then you might be tempted just to forgo the Mill altogether. We want people to build the Mill. But we could allow them not because certain situations arise (like you run out of Wood and you can't build one and there's no other way to get wood).

Edited July 18, 2009 by Mythos_Ruler

[MrChocolateBear]

After looking at some numbers, 25% bonus seems like a pretty big advantage to me.

100% / 80% / 75%/ 50%

100 / 80 / 75 / 50

500 / 400 / 375 / 250

1000 / 800 / 750 / 500

A 20% may not be much of an incentive to build mills, but around 25% there is a fairly noticeable gap. I think players should feel rewarded for building mills, not punished for not building them (except in multiplayer of course). I'd be interesting in hearing some more people's thoughts on this. *rallies the troops*

Edited July 19, 2009 by MrChocolateBear

[buggy123]

yeh...In AOE3, the french had a bonus 25% gathering rate. Even with the extra cost of settlers, the French are still one of the most versatile and popular civilizations. They could pretty much pull off any strategy because of their economy.

without the countermeasure of the extra food cost of the villagers...they would have been waaayyyy overpowered.

Although it may not seem like, 25 percent is a lot. we should cut it down to 15-20% Start at that range and tweak it as we go

[Shield Bearer]

yeah thats a good idea. buggy ur forgetting that its not a boost we're talking about, its a 25% gather rate, if 100% was 600 wood per minute then 25% would be 250 wood per minute which is kinda drastic

BTW I LOVED THE FRENCH

[MrChocolateBear]

Shield Bearer, did you mean 150?

I think buggy123 is right. We should start with a lower percentage once the game is in a more finished state, then playtest to balance it out.

[buggy123]

Here's my understanding...

Inside Aura: 100% gathering rate

Outside Aura 75% gathering rate (100-25)

I think the advantage of the Aura is too big. I don't want this game to be like a economy war. AOE3's emphasis on economy was a bit too strong. We shouldn't repeat the same...mistake(?)

Maybe the Mill will give like 10 percent bonus to start out? Then increase the aura area/bonus as you upgrade it? It would add more options such as "Is the amount of resources in the region worth it to make the upgrade the mill?" and stuff like that

Edited July 20, 2009 by buggy123

[AuroN2]

Theres never enough economy, without economy, who is going to do the warring? On the side note of aoe3, loved the brit musketeers with the "red line army" (or whatever) research, just walk them up to my enemies, in their faces and stop them, game over.